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[Book Spoilers] EP310 Discussion

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Well...assuming that's what Bran's warging powers are for.

And the more I think about it, not sure 3 dragons will be quite enough for what is an army of thousands of Undead

Good point, three dragons are more than enough to protect thousands of slaves and 8000 Unsullied, but they are not going to be able to protect the half a million population of King's Landing on top of it.

And I'm pretty sure King's Landing is not even half of the population of Westeros.

Edited by silentwanderer

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The issue isn't that sex workers can't have emotions or fall in love with their clients, it is that THIS PARTICULAR sex worker--we know is going to end up dead, so the decisions made about her character are puzzling, especially if the show sticks with the major plot point of having Tyrion kill her. Sex workers, I would think also are capable of logic and rational thinking, in which case TV Shae should have taken the bag of diamonds.

Of course it would be rational and logical for her to take the cash and run, when she knows that she's never going to be openly with Tyrion. But people in love aren't rational and logical - look how many people waste their years waiting for their lover to leave their spouse and kids. Their heads may know it will never happen, but the heart is treacherous and full of hope.

On a completely different note - I wish the writers had gone down a different path with Robb. I was re-reading Bran's 2nd or 3rd chapter in AGOT this morning, which ends with Robb talking to Bran in bed, telling him that they'll go to the Wall and visit Jon, and it will be an adventure, and then he starts crying. I wish they'd been able to illustrate Robb's love of his family better, which was the motivation behind so many of his decisions.

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in many ways, Bran felt like the son Robb never had in season 1.

For awhile there, the child was all he had before he went to war, and Robb all the kid had when their mother left.

Maybe we could've used more of those scenes in the "Previously" segment

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So now i'm not sure , for it's been a long time since I read the 3rd book , but in the books , does Sam know Bran is John's brother?

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I agree that Tywin might kill Shae instead of Tyrion, or Shae might kill herself, but I believe Shae will testify against Tyrion in his trial.

Varys as the hooded man? Intriguing. Why would Varys decide to go to Winterfell though - the internal Northern politics aren't particularly important to the rest of the realm. If he's worried about white walkers, shouldn't he go to the Wall?

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So now i'm not sure , for it's been a long time since I read the 3rd book , but in the books , does Sam know Bran is John's brother?

Yes, and Bran makes Sam promise not to tell Jon that he has seen him, IIRC.

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It is silly to complain that Shae is protective of Sansa when a whole bunch of characters have served as unlikely protectors of the Stark children. Syrio Forel was just a tutor to Arya for a few weeks, but he sacrificed his life for her. Osha was Robb's prisoner, but has apparently devoted her life to the risky business of protecting Rickon. Sandor decided to make sense of his life by protecting Sansa and then Arya. The Reed children and Hodor took Bran up North and are probably not going to make it back. Mormont took Jon under his protection. These people chose to protect Stark children for their own reasons. Shae's reason seems similar to Sandor's to me - awful childhood, yearns vicariously to be part of somebody else having a better life, and wants to do something unambiguously good.

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Yes, and Bran makes Sam promise not to tell Jon that he has seen him, IIRC.

Which is something that D&D did not include in S3E10.

To me one of the most salient parts of the show is not only the horrible things that befall the members of the Stark family, but also how the knowledge of what happens to each Stark family member is communicated to the others. By "Stark family" I am including Theon and Jon, BTW.

That's one reason the scene with Arya seeing Robb's body with Grey Wind's head is so strong, as is the scene with Sam and Bran. I find it truly bizarre that we didn't really get a reaction shot from Sansa on learning about the Red Wedding, we just saw Tyrion reacting to his wife's reaction.

Maybe in the show Jon will have more information about the whereabouts of Bran (and Rickon) than he did in the books. (I forget whether Sam tells Jon that he met Bran in the books (AFFC), but I think he does.)

ON THE SHOW

Arya: visual confirmation of death of her brother, father, and aural confirmation of her mother's death. Knows nothing about status of Brandon and Rickon. (Or Theon or Jon). [Actually Arya might have heard something about Theon when she was serving Tywin, no?]

Sansa: saw Eddard die; has heard that Robb, Catelyn, Brandon and Rickon are dead. Knows nothing about Theon, thinks Jon is alive at the Wall.

Jon: Thinks Arya and Sansa are in Kings Landing. Knows nothing about Brandon or Rickon. Knows Eddard is dead. Has no info on Catelyn or Robb. (Does he know Theon is a traitor?)

Theon: Knows Brandon and Rickon are alive. Knows nothing about Catelyn or Robb or Sansa or Arya. Thinks Jon is alive at The Wall. Is now Reek so is he still a Stark family member?

Brandon: knows Jon is alive (via Sam); knows Rickon is alive. Knows Eddard is dead. No info about Arya, Sansa,Robb or Catelyn. Knows Theon betrayed family but doesn't know he is now Reek.

Rickon: Knows Brandon is alive and Theon is a traitor. Knows Eddard is dead. No info about Sansa, Catelyn, Robb, Arya or Jon.

Keeping track of who knows what about what happened to who is one of the interesting aspects of the books to me, as "news" can obviously influence the decisions that characters make and channge the development of the story.

How the show will deviate from and depict the flow of information between the characters is what I am looking forward to.

Edited by madprofessah

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Which is something that D&D did not include in S3E10.

You've got some interesting thoughts there, and it'll be interesting to see where the show goes with it compared to the books. It seems important that Jon doesn't know Bran is alive - because otherwise I can't see him just sitting tight at the Wall; he'd surely want to go and rescue/protect Bran.

Perhaps we'll just get a quick couple of lines in S4 with Gilly saying to Sam something like "Remember we promised not to tell Lord Snow that we saw his brother! It's for his own safety!"

In the books, all of the Stark children but Sansa have more information about their siblings and parents, through their wolves. Arya sees Nymeria pull Catelyn from the river. Jon dreams of Bran as a tree. Bran sees pretty much everything. Only Sansa, who lost her wolf, is reduced to hearing news from other people around her.

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I agree that Tywin might kill Shae instead of Tyrion, or Shae might kill herself, but I believe Shae will testify against Tyrion in his trial.

The only way I could see that on the show, its if Tyrion asks her to do it in order to spare Sansa.

But that would mean Sansa doesn't escape King's Landing until after Tyrion is found guilty (rather than the night Joffrey dies, as if happened on the books)

ETA:

... It seems important that Jon doesn't know Bran is alive - because otherwise I can't see him just sitting tight at the Wall; he'd surely want to go and rescue/protect Bran.

Then again, it was also important for the wildlings not to name their babies until they were two years old, but TV Gilly has just named her newborn son on the show.

Some things are not going to stay the same no matter how important they might seem.

Edited by silentwanderer

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If Tyrion doesn't kill Shae I will stop watching the show.

If I didn't stop watching when Cat didn't raise from the dead in the finale, Strong Belwas didn't show up when Barristan did, Ygritte wasn't shot by an arrow or Mero was killed & Yunkai conquered long before we ever saw Meereen, I won't stop watching because of this.

Edited by silentwanderer

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The only way I could see that on the show, its if Tyrion asks her to do it in order to spare Sansa.

But that would mean Sansa doesn't escape King's Landing until after Tyrion is found guilty (rather than the night Joffrey dies, as if happened on the books)

ETA:

Then again, it was also important for the wildlings not to name their babies until they were two years old, but TV Gilly has just named her newborn son on the show.

Some things are not going to stay the same no matter how important they might seem.

That wasn't "important".

It's an example of the show changing something--wildlings not naming their children until they are 2--that easily could have been left in, to give more depth and understanding of how harsh the wildling life and culture is compared to Westeros

In favor of a couple of "awe shucks" cutsey moments of baby name talk and ooh she's naming the baby Sam.

It has zero importance in the plot, but was changed from something subtle and telling into cheap sentimentality. But, that's how the show rolls.

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It has zero importance in the plot,

Actually, when do wildlings name their kids its of the utmost importance because of Mance Rayder's baby.

Then again, he doesn't have a baby - or a wife - on the show either.

Edited by silentwanderer

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If I didn't stop watching when Cat didn't raise from the dead in the finale, Strong Belwas didn't show up when Barristan did, Ygritte wasn't shot by an arrow or Mero was killed & Yunkai conquered long before we ever saw Meereen, I won't stop watching because of this.

Lady Stoneheart and Ygritte dying are still probably going to happen, so those two don't make senseias issues that would make someone stop watching.

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Lady Stoneheart and Ygritte dying are still probably going to happen, so those two don't make senseias issues that would make someone stop watching.

Word. On the show, Jon just got back to Castle Black so Ygritte can't be shot yet, and Lady Stoneheart didn't appear until about 350 pages later in the book, so people have no need to worry that these things won't happen.

On the other hand, they have totally screwed with Yunkai/Meereen events, but since they decided to "introduce" Barristan as who really is to Dany, thus mitigating the need to make him Belwas' squire, I'm thinking they might still introduce Belwas as a Meereen character.

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I think a lot of people are missing the way they are setting up the Shae character. I think she will play the Ser Dontos role next season & help Sansa escape. Though she mistrusted littlefinger earlier, I think she will end up trusting him to get Sansa out of the city. Naturally with her being Sansa's maid servant she will be suspected. I think she'll sacrifice herself to get Sansa out & Jamie will tell Tyrion about Tysha & Tyrion will ask about Shae and Jamie will tell of how she's hanging from the walls. Tyrion snaps and kills Tywin. A great way to use the necklace is if Tyrion finds it in Tywins room, and hangs it around his neck and says his "shit gold" line after shooting him with the crossbow. I could live with that being the last scene of episode 9 next season.

Edited by Smoke317

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On the other hand, they have totally screwed with Yunkai/Meereen events, but since they decided to "introduce" Barristan as who really is to Dany, thus mitigating the need to make him Belwas' squire, I'm thinking they might still introduce Belwas as a Meereen character.

Well, I can't say they have messed up Meereen yet, if it's Belwas you mean?

Still could appear next season.

Eliminating the silly Arstan Whitebeard joke was a good move on D and D's part.

Maybe they really will bring in Belwas and the goof ball duel(which I liked), since that would be a whole lot cheaper than showing the Battle of Meereen... I figure that will take place off screen.

I think they are saving their money for the Battle for the Wall , episode 9.

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If I didn't stop watching when Cat didn't raise from the dead in the finale, Strong Belwas didn't show up when Barristan did, Ygritte wasn't shot by an arrow or Mero was killed & Yunkai conquered long before we ever saw Meereen, I won't stop watching because of this.

On the other hand, they have totally screwed with Yunkai/Meereen events, but since they decided to "introduce" Barristan as who really is to Dany, thus mitigating the need to make him Belwas' squire, I'm thinking they might still introduce Belwas as a Meereen character.

The issue with Meereen on the books is that the City was never safe for Yunkai remained a major threat up until the latest book

The show, on the other hand, not only eliminated the threat by taking control of Yunkai long before Meereen, but also took care of an entire Company and two Captains long before the books did.

Now, not only Dani has complete control of Yunkai, but also of the Second Sons through Daario Naharis.

Edited by silentwanderer

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The issue isn't that sex workers can't have emotions or fall in love with their clients, it is that THIS PARTICULAR sex worker--we know is going to end up dead, so the decisions made about her character are puzzling, especially if the show sticks with the major plot point of having Tyrion kill her. Sex workers, I would think also are capable of logic and rational thinking, in which case TV Shae should have taken the bag of diamonds.

I agree. Sex workers aren't devoid of intellect, which is what I find weird about TV Shae. She's an idiot not to take the diamonds and run. It's better than what 10,000 whores could have wished for. She can control her own life, and find a man that's available, not hopelessly tied up in Westerosi intrigue. Remember the part that Tyrion could have left his family to live a comfortable life elsewhere, say in Essos, but decided to play politics because he loves the fight. He chose stupid court politics over love.

Book Shae makes much more sense. She only said the silly things Tyrion wanted to hear, and he knew it was all bullshit and fell for it anyways. Made the death choke more reasonable. Now apparently they love each other and they'll have to justify the murder.

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