How would you rate episode 310?

[Winters]

It was a bit underwhelming compared to what it could of been, but it was ok for the most part. No need to create more cliffhangers after RW.

[Crazydog7]

This episode seemed like it ended in mid-sentence I get how they have to drag things out or they will run out of story to tell but man...this episode just didn't work

The one thing they did that I liked was when the Fey men at arms start to chant "Here comes the king in the north" which was pretty damn freaky.

[Lord over Seas]

The pervasive negativity here both astonishes and amuses me. So many negative posts, usually based on the critically flawed foundation "but it's not like the books!" No it isn't nor will it ever be, nor could it be no matter what. what works in a book probably won't work on film; they're different mediums folks and have their own demands. Learn to view art on its own terms, not your personal comparison with another artwork even if they are somehow related. Nobody is capable of the "perfect" interpretation of the books. One person's image of a chracter, location, or whatever will rarely if ever match another's. When you spend your time projecting how you sw something in the book, you aren't seeing the show/film that's in front of you on ITS terms.

The second problem is wanting to see something NOW just because you know it's coming (see above regarding bringing your own baggage to reviewing). But unless you've been a fly on the wall in the showrunners' offices, you have no idea where it's going or what they will retain, omit, or restructure. Your personal vision of what you "would have done" is not The Truth. Also try to learn about film/television production. After nearly 30 years working in theatre, I have a pretty good idea of what goes into bringing something alive in the performing arts, and these folks are doing a magnificent job with this series. Don't like "tying up storylines"? Well, it has to be done or the same people would be complaining that they didn't tie things up and left everything dangling. The complaints that "nothing happened to advance the story" are groundless. Not all action is physical. Character development and plot depth can happen in simple conversation if your mind is open to it. Dig into the Netflix library and rent "My Dinner With Andre" to see a wonderful piece of drama that has no action except for what occurs between two people talking while seated at a table. But if you want swords and fighting , raping and killing, running and fleeing, etc. all the time, if that's how you define dramatic action, you'll be bored senseless despite the fact that this is an acknowledged excellent film. Nothing "happens" in "Waiting for Godot" but it's an acknowledged masterpiece that eventually retrained our thinking about theatre and acting.

Boring episode? Only if you aren't paying total attention and/or don't understand the nature of drama. The writers were very wise not to try to equal or top the previous episode which was arguably the most devastating and important episode of the series to date. Instead, they created a transition piece to brindge this season and the next. in retrospect, many now complaining will more fully appreciate what they did once season four unfolds. they did a great job and I for one will wait as patiently as a can until next year. This is some of the best stuff out there and even at its weakest moments far outshines the vast majority of the dumbed down garbage that's broadcast. Let's enjoy our giift instead of complaining that it's not exactly what we wanted for Christmas. GREAT SHOW, GREAT SEASON. Everyone involved deserves our thanks, respect and support. BRING ON SEASON 4!

You don't seem to understand where most critics are pointing. The least people that argue against the show last episodes do it because of the changes from the book.

Most of the people don't mind if there's some changes if they're useful to the development of the characters.

One of the greatest things in ASOIAF is the character depth and development. Every single character, with or without a POV is presented with complexity, which after all shows it's humanity. Even through the relationships between characters it is noticeable. A clear example is the Arya-the Hound storyline. And in this week's episode, we saw another chapter of it, which was mostly new (not appearing in the books) And though it was new, it was creative and supported Arya's inner evolution and the Hound's reaction to it. And most commenters liked it. The only critic I could imagine against this storyline in the series is, that the Hound isn't shown in all it's depression and his fears. But with such a short time for every episode it's hard to do, and I understand it.

The main problem most critics have with the series, me amongst them, is that some changes made from the book totally turn around the characters, making them incoherent, or even worse, filling them with cliché treats of typical tv characters, making them simply plain and without any personality. Such is the case of Tyrion, Jon, and in this episode Asha. Their reactions in certain situations seem out of point and speaks against how they are in the books.

Tyrion has turned out to be a moral, misunderstood and mistreated Hero, without any other flaw than being born a Imp.

Jon was supposed to be as cold and silent as Ned, even in extreme situations, but in the series we only see him in forced dramatic scenes struggeling with his love and duty sense. How is he even supposed to become LC when the only thing we get from him is how heroic he is by sacrificing his love and his health for the NW?

And Asha is even worse: after decades without seeing his brother, she meets him and despises him for his way to be. And suddenly she loves him so much she's on a suicide mission to rescue him? So much for the heir to the Iron Islands and her political/feminist aspirations. (I remind you to AFFC if you can't remember)

The critics go in the way that, it seems that D&D have lost the way to the characters, or they simply do not understand and feel them as deep and complex as they are, but only as TV products to be put on forced dramatic situations to please the spectator. IMO that's the point of the series getting more and more criticism.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Lord over Seas

[The Ghostbear]

"You don't seem to understand where most critics are pointing. The least people that argue against the show last episodes do it because of the changes from the book.

The main problem most critics have with the series, me amongst them, is that some changes made from the book totally turn around the characters, making them incoherent, or even worse, filling them with cliché treats of typical tv characters, making them simply plain and without any personality. Such is the case of Tyrion, Jon, and in this episode Asha. Their reactions in certain situations seem out of point and speaks against how they are in the books."

Actually, I DO get it. As I said, comparing the series to the books is a flawed foundation for criticism of the series because it promotes a goal that can never be accomplished. Any work of art must be taken on its own merits. Just because someone has read the books doesn't mean that their interpretation of what they read is the "pure" and singular interpretation. Everyone's reading experience is different, and because of that the shows must be assessed on their own merits rather than in constant comparison with the books. Total "faithfulness" to the books is an impossible goal since everyone who reads the books sees and expereinces different things. An event (such as the Red Wedding) will be acknowledged as having happened by all readers, but each reader will take away a different, very personal vision of what they read. Therefore rather than constantly running to the books as a justification for one's complaints, valid arts criticism tries to view each artwork - even if based on another artwork - on its own merits. A painting based on a photograph is unlikely to be a "perfect" replica of the photo. So what? If it WAS a perfect likelnesss of the original, what would be the point? The Eyrie in my mind's eye is very likely different from yours, which in turn is different from the Art Director's vision of it for the television screen. Observing that Asha/Yara's turn around seems sudden and comes from out of nowhere is valid for you, and up to a point I agree with you.. However, I've had exeperiences in my life that resulted in changes of mind and heart that were very abrupt, and overrode my previously held opinions and feelings toward the person in question. What makes the difference is that we can discuss that abruptness from one dramatic "beat" to the next without ever referencing the book because the book is ultimately irrelevant to the critical discussion at hand. Did the writers and director provide a solid foundation for her change of heart or not? THAT is a valid discussion. Did they change her too abruptly because it was different in the book is irrelevant because the series is not the book(s). I've read all of the books more than once and am perfectly comfortable not seeing the series as being "less" than the books, but rather an adaptation for dramatic purposes. I can objectively distance myself from my reading experience and enjoy this 'version" on its own terms. And the series, when viewed by and of itself is a wonderful thing. Perfect? No - nothing is. But nevertheless, a wonderful gift from the remarkable cast and crew that have tackled something that might seem unfilmable unless you have a solid grasp of how production and dramatic choices are made in the performing arts. Yet here it is, and it is very successful and accomplished. That being said, thanks for contributing a thoughtful and intelligent response that keeps the dialogue going without devolving into petty squabbling.

Edited June 13, 2013 by The Ghostbear

[Cas Stark]

It's an adaptation. They give Oscar's for best adapted screenplay, which means, somewhere, someone must believe that yes you can judge the adaptation against the original. It's done all the time. Did they capture the essense? Did they understand and translate the themes? Was it a hit or a miss?

Everyone knows that adapting a book for a visual medium is not going to exact, and that yes, people will disagree over what is and what is not a crucial scene or character or whether changes are good, bad or neutral.

[MrsClegane]

I always read spoilers and rewievs before watching the episode, so I thought I will be dissapointed, but I ended liking the episode.

The opening with Robbwind was disturbing, although I don't know how the Hound & Arya survived there in the middle of the battle for hours. It surely took some time to chop Rob's & Greywind's heads off and make the Robbwind creature. Maybe they hid somewhere and the Hound ate remaining pork feet.

I liked Bran and Sammwell scenes. Sam was actually really nice in that episode and I felt like he was the real man for the first time. Also, it was nice to see Maester Aemon. I was relieved Jon returned finally to Castle Black, his Wildings storyline was really lame. Now waiting for the Battle of the Castle Black. And for Satin's introduction.

Kingslanding was rather boring. The Jaime/Cersei reunion was dissapointment. I liked only the Tywin Joffrey & Co scene. Don't like how they shipping Tyrion with Sansa. Hopefully the last Sansa's scene gave me a hope it'll stop.

I loved Davos & Shireen. So adorable! But how's Gendry going to survive on that boat alone and with no big supplies? Not that I care for him, actually I wish he stays away for some time.

The Hound & Arya scene was awesome. And I'm so happy the showrunners didn't kill off Sandor at least for now. Also, it's funny how the producers replaced his wine addiction with food addiction. Seriously, the guy's eating all the time! I wonder if in the famous inn scene we will see Sandor overdosing pork feet as his reaction for Sansa's wedding which will lead him to "death" :laugh:

Finally, the Mhysa scene was cheesy. It was the weakest point of the episode. I think even Bran's leaving off the wall would be more climatic end than Mother Theresa Dany.

Edited June 13, 2013 by MrsClegane

[Ravi Seaworth]

People complain about how cheesy the last scene was, but did not like the reunion between Jaime and Cersei and the RW reveal to Sansa. I am on your side with regard to the Mhysa scene, but not in terms of the other two scenes. I felt that any kind of dialogue would either have to be too good in order not to be cheesy as well. So, they decided to show without showing, leaving the actual reactions to the imagination of the viewer.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Ravi Seaworth

[The Ghostbear]

Cas Stark: The Screenplay Adapatation award is not exclusively about any kind of "faithfulness" to the source material, either literally or in spirit. A large part of that award category is an acknowledgement (in part due to the legal issues involving copyright) that it is not an original work, but owes a debt to the source however distant. And not everyone understands that adaptations aren't going to be exact as is evidenced by some of the posts in these forums. Besides, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Awards are not a final measure of critical excellence in the terms you've stated, but are rather a vote by the members of the professional community who are as likely to vote for their friends, or because someone "should" have won an Oscar by now. Was "The Greatest Show On Earth" really the "best" film of 1952? Should "Ghost" have even been nominated when "Goodfellas" is its point of comparison in 1990? A case can be made for the Oscars being an insider popularity contest. The screenplay for "Out Of Africa" cites at least three different sources. To which is it "faithful" in spirit or essence? Despite disagreeing, thanks for the feedback!

[Yelloweyedemon]

Voted 6.

It was not a bad episode in my opinion, but they altered things from the book that I consider important.

[Victarious]

I nearly zzzzzzZZZZ'd so I'll give the finale a 7. It's still the best season despite some weak moments here and there.

Looking forward to S4.

[Lord over Seas]

That being said, thanks for contributing a thoughtful and intelligent response that keeps the dialogue going without devolving into petty squabbling.

Though I still disagree with your opinion about the series, we can both agree on the usefulness of having an interesting conversation. (Now i look like Ned Flanders)

[Greywolf2375]

Actually, I DO get it. As I said, comparing the series to the books is a flawed foundation for criticism of the series because it promotes a goal that can never be accomplished.

That's absolutely not an accurate statement. Starship Troopers is a perfect example of this - the movie is an adaption of the book, but only consists of maybe 1 to 1 1/2 chapters of material. It was an adaption in name only.

Making a comparison to the source material is valid - not from the standpoint that many like to object to, "OMG, the hair was wrong, purists are going to freak". Literally no one on this board has said they need or even want a verbatim translation from paper to screen - but they do want the characterizations that made the written personalities what they are, the situations what they are. Did Robb need more fleshing out so that the RW had more impact? Absolutely, in my opinion.

Since we all imagine what each character looks like or each location looks like, yes, some may be disappointed in how the Eyrie was presented. I may have pictured the Moon Door differently, but they captured the essence of it. If however the Eyrie was made to look like Dragonstone and the Moon Door was out the side of the castle to the ocean below that I think would be a failed translation. That's what most of the critiques are about.

Are there critiques that individual details weren't included? Sure - each person gets impacted by the little details uniquely. I would have loved to have seen Daario with his blue hair and stated so. Does that mean they missed what Daario is? No, just a detail I would have liked to see.

Since there is very strong source material available, in some ways they do need to justify why changes are made when they do not appear to add to the story. The PW coming up is an example of this - since they had decided Loras is the only son of the Tyrell family, it changes how the poisoning has been perceived greatly since one of the potential conspirators doesn't even exist. Does that change what happened in the books or who may have been responsible? No, but since the written scene allows for so many options, they do need to provide those options or else I feel it will be less than it deserves when we see it.

[xDireWolfx93]

I always read spoilers and rewievs before watching the episode, so I thought I will be dissapointed, but I ended liking the episode.

The opening with Robbwind was disturbing, although I don't know how the Hound & Arya survived there in the middle of the battle for hours. It surely took some time to chop Rob's & Greywind's heads off and make the Robbwind creature. Maybe they hid somewhere and the Hound ate remaining pork feet.

LOL That must have been what happened! I see no other plausible explanation! But yes, I was wondering the same thing myself.

[Rashtibram]

Cas Stark: The Screenplay Adapatation award is not exclusively about any kind of "faithfulness" to the source material, either literally or in spirit. A large part of that award category is an acknowledgement (in part due to the legal issues involving copyright) that it is not an original work, but owes a debt to the source however distant. And not everyone understands that adaptations aren't going to be exact as is evidenced by some of the posts in these forums. Besides, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Awards are not a final measure of critical excellence in the terms you've stated, but are rather a vote by the members of the professional community who are as likely to vote for their friends, or because someone "should" have won an Oscar by now. Was "The Greatest Show On Earth" really the "best" film of 1952? Should "Ghost" have even been nominated when "Goodfellas" is its point of comparison in 1990? A case can be made for the Oscars being an insider popularity contest. The screenplay for "Out Of Africa" cites at least three different sources. To which is it "faithful" in spirit or essence? Despite disagreeing, thanks for the feedback!

By the way, sorry if this isn't helpful, but do you know how to reply to posts? You just hit the quote button. Putting it in quotation marks doesn't indicate a reply.

[Fez]

Finally saw this episode this afternoon. I have it at an 8. There was just too much water treading and not enough forward momentum from last week.

I actually might have given it a 7, but I'm feeling generous because I was so happy that uncat didn't show up.

[Fenrax1]

Hello everyone. First post.

Clear 10/10 episode.

What I liked:

- Arya! Such a great szene. Arya looking all badass was great. But the hound made the scene. It was so amazing how he sat behind Arya already eating their like it was nothing while Arya was still Valarmorghuling and all excited.

- the introduction of Ramsay. So well done. Dat Wiener Wave. Reek, his name is Reek.

- Walder Frey. Ahoooo. hehehe. Forever young. Great, believable villain.

- dick in a box. lol

- any Tyrion/Tywin scene auto 5 stars. This one no exception. Both with believable dialogue and conflic, both with great acting.

- Davos. He is 100% the book Davos and is great on screen.

what I didn't like:

- the ending, it just didn't work out right, didnt give me that magic moment feeling like it was supposed to

- wtf was that Tyrion/Shae scene??? dpoesn't make sense?

- could have given a bit more depths to Stannis but I don't think they butchered him

Edited June 15, 2013 by Fenrax1

[TheWhiteRabbit]

I loved the Arya scene where she showed no remorse and it shows that she has made her decision to find Jaqen H'ghar and learn his ways, and clegane (Hound) sees what she is capable of.

I like the sadness Ygritte showed in shooting Jon with arrows.... in all it was an OK episode.... but as a finale im not sure, i was expecting a little more at the end.... i understand the end was still a great ending... just not as hitting as some hoped for.... maybe could have finished with theon becoming reek and left the non readers thinking wtf?

In a big way i think The rains of castamere was more compelling to watch.

Cannot wait for next season either way.

I agree. Overall this episode was very good, but Arya's scene was so impressive I had to give it a 9. The quality of the finale should not be diminished just because some "oh shit" moment didnt happen in the final scene of the episode. I think it's hilarious that some of you give a more negative e review just because the format of S3 doesn't match the last two seasons

[boojam]

What did you think?

So Ran ever thought of doing a Rate the Seasons thread?

Edited June 16, 2013 by boojam

[The Monkey]

So Ran ever thought of doing a Rate the Seasons thread?

Are mods the only ones who can create poll threads?

[Count Balerion]

9/10.

The only things I didn't like were the Jon/Ygritte dialogue (a bit corny) and the final scene, given that the episode was named for it, was rather anticlimactic IMO. Not bad, necessarily; but would have been better if there'd been more substance (e.g., if they'd included the Yunkai battle here). Also, while I'm nitpicking, the Theon/Reek scene could have been shorter.

I enjoyed everything else, especially the council scene, which I've been hoping for all season, although

they didn't have "He's not Robert II; he's Aerys III."

, the Bolton/Frey gloating party, Tyrion/Tywin mutual contempt. Also,

Tyrion's enemies' list foreshadowing the murder(s?) we'll be getting later.