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(Book Spoilers) Theon and the reveal


SerWest

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Besides, it's not like he truly embraced the identity of Reek yet: that will come later. I saw the scene as Theon finally giving in to Ramsay's demands to make the pain stop.

For one, the character started the season by recognizing Ned Stark as his real father and ended up the season forsaken his name.

Granted, it was to embrace the name Ramsay gave to him, but the main theme of Theon in the book is to re-claim his identity, to be worthy of his own name.

The process has barely started and it won't end until Ramsay marries "Arya Stark".

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Eh, I don't think we can say Ramsay's just an Alex clone yet. It's not his fault he has big luminous blue eyes. We've seen him in two situations -- pretending to be Theon's savior and torturing him for kicks. We've never seen him when things aren't going his way, when push comes to shove, or even with his father. He's a gleeful torturer but his attitude will likely change by the time we get to Winterfell. I still say we saw a glimpse when he was getting off the horse and swaggering up to his father's man. Even Theon was scrambling back, like a knee-jerk "run away!"

Dammit now I want to watch A Clockwork Orange. My then-14-year-old sis made me proud when she randomly hit it on my Netflix account. I thought she'd be bored or weirded out by Kubrick's style. Nope, she loved it. And piped up "so, he's a total bastard...but for some reason he's kind of sexy." Blood of my blood!

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Eh, I don't think we can say Ramsay's just an Alex clone yet. It's not his fault he has big luminous blue eyes. We've seen him in two situations -- pretending to be Theon's savior and torturing him for kicks. We've never seen him when things aren't going his way, when push comes to shove, or even with his father. He's a gleeful torturer but his attitude will likely change by the time we get to Winterfell. I still say we saw a glimpse when he was getting off the horse and swaggering up to his father's man. Even Theon was scrambling back, like a knee-jerk "run away!"

Dammit now I want to watch A Clockwork Orange. My then-14-year-old sis made me proud when she randomly hit it on my Netflix account. I thought she'd be bored or weirded out by Kubrick's style. Nope, she loved it. And piped up "so, he's a total bastard...but for some reason he's kind of sexy." Blood of my blood!

Yeah I don't think he's a clone. It's just so far in the torture situations we have seen him in so far her reminds me of Alex. Just in the glee and sick sense of humor he has in doing these sick acts. I do think that will change when we see him interact with his father, or see him get really angry over something.

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I don't know what half the people are going on about on the last page, and think they're most likely on absinthe ;), but regarding supposed incest implications re: Theon and Asha in the series, nope, they don't really exist there. The scene where Theon returns to Pyke and tries it on with his sister, done purely for comic effect, is actually a case in ASOIAF of Asha seeing this womanising popinjay, realising it's her brother, then coming on to him and groping him in order to make him embarrass himself, as a joke, to undermine him because he's so obviously sure of himself but out of place. At one point, she tries to take out his penis and would most probably have put her hand or mouth to it in order to lull him further, because this is Asha: she's somewhat nuts. When she gropes him again in Pyke's Great Hall, it's an evident attempt to arouse him to cause him further humiliation, and the process elicits in Theon moral replusion, so there's no incestuous desire, in a strict sense, either way, in terms of Westerosi morals. One character is simply setting out to embarrass the other, and the other one is duped by it. Asha would never actually have penetrative sex with her brother, who would find the process repugnant. This scene is altered in the series, where it seems it's only Theon who's at fault.

On a sidenote, since Alex in A Clockwork Orange seems more intelligent than Ramsay, and also more charismatic as well as being a classical music lover, I've not picked up on any parallels there.

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I don't know what half the people are going on about on the last page, and think they're most likely on absinthe ;), but regarding supposed incest implications re: Theon and Asha in the series, nope, they don't really exist there. The scene where Theon returns to Pyke and tries it on with his sister, done purely for comic effect, is actually a case in ASOIAF of Asha seeing this womanising popinjay, realising it's her brother, then coming on to him and groping him in order to make him embarrass himself, as a joke, to undermine him because he's so obviously sure of himself but out of place. At one point, she tries to take out his penis and would most probably have put her hand or mouth to it in order to lull him further, because this is Asha: she's somewhat nuts. When she gropes him again in Pyke's Great Hall, it's an evident attempt to arouse him to cause him further humiliation, and the process elicits in Theon moral replusion, so there's no incestuous desire, in a strict sense, either way, in terms of Westerosi morals. One character is simply setting out to embarrass the other, and the other one is duped by it. Asha would never actually have penetrative sex with her brother, who would find the process repugnant. This scene is altered in the series, where it seems it's only Theon who's at fault.

On a sidenote, since Alex in A Clockwork Orange seems more intelligent than Ramsay, and also more charismatic as well as being a classical music lover, I've not picked up on any parallels there.

Are you sure she didn't like the grope big smiles and again later in front of dad? Almost nursing him back to sleep? Now she is bringing back his sausage. Hope she knows stitching it was the way she looked at it. Then said to her father I will get the hardest men on these islands and go to rescue my brothers? Must be love, not incest how can the work he missing fingers aswell? Must get you speaking. Massively miles outside of her character.

Watch ACO it is the classic british psycho, everything about the bastard's personna and nuiances have been that model in certain likenessees almost including the look ,without disrespect.

Without all the bad jokes at the lackluster scripting from what we have seen and this bemusing defense. It has presented the obvious plothole, what land, what castles, what Ironborn. Why will 50 more of the best fighters go anywhere when they already had gone to war? What was she in command of? The king wouldn't try to stop her, and now she goes, Again. Her brother would have been offered to the drowned god for less. How did the box, teleport there next scene? You would have me believe in a mailbox delivery service at a time of conflict with raiders who will kill northeners on site. Oh look, a white flag throwing axe splat dead, but dropped a box, better put that way, and teleport it home? Nonsense

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Are you sure she didn't like the grope big smiles and again later in front of dad? Almost nursing him back to sleep? Now she is bringing back his sausage. Hope she knows stitching it was the way she looked at it. Then said to her father I will get the hardest men on these islands and go to rescue my brothers? Must be love, not incest how can the work he missing fingers aswell? Must get you speaking. Massively miles outside of her character in being the next assumed air of the Greyjoy line and failing her command and her fathers words to her.

Watch ACO it is the classic british psycho, everything about the bastard's personna and nuiances have been that model in certain likenessees almost including the look ,without disrespect.

Without all the bad jokes at the lackluster scripting from what we have seen and this bemusing defense. It has presented the obvious plotholes what land what castles what Ironborn. Why will 50 more of the best fighters go anywhere when they already had gone to war? What was she in command of, and now again her brother would have be offered to the drowned god for less. How did the box teleport there next scene, you would have me believe in a mailbox delivery service at a time of conflict with raiders who will kill northeners on site,.Oh look a white flag throwing axe splat dead, but dropped a box, better put that way and teleport it home? Nonsense

Ok dude, there is no incest between Yara and Theon like just no. And also for those making parallels between Ramsay and Alex: yes I see the resemblance, but I don't think we can judge too much until we see how he behaves next season when he is given more depth and more material to work with. This is why i said that Iwan's choice of not reading the novel and not researching this character as he is in the books is a mistake because he could have really drawn a lot of his source material from the books, instead of creating his own villain (maybe he didn't try to emulate any particular villain from famous films, but I think subconsciously, he was influenced by them when he got into the role without even realizing it).

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Ok dude, there is no incest between Yara and Theon like just no. And also for those making parallels between Ramsay and Alex: yes I see the resemblance, but I don't think we can judge too much until we see how he behaves next season when he is given more depth and more material to work with. This is why i said that Iwan's choice of not reading the novel and not researching this character as he is in the books is a mistake because he could have really drawn a lot of his source material from the books, instead of creating his own villain (maybe he didn't try to emulate any particular villain from famous films, but I think subconsciously, he was influenced by them when he got into the role without even realizing it).

No, obviously that can't work on the show without a speech. Contrary script is contrary almost as bad as Cersei moods and my bad jokes. Yara is miles outside of Asha's Greyjoys character even from the Yara we saw in S2. Now in S3 she has changed and so has the north. What land and castles did they attack with what army. Winterfell wasTheon mistake. Torhen Square Rodderick Cassel lost 200 knights who teleported it must have been impregnable when he had said it was a pile of sticks close by and it was Theon who attack Winterfell from there with his one ship? Why does she need more of the best fighters again after that disaster? No wonder her dad, dies of a heart attack. How did the box appear? Although really the least of these worries.

No offense to Iwan as the Bastard character. He preforms his character being scary, cruel, sociopathic, macabre, and evil he does this well, although with some definite likeness to ACO. Not entirely his fault there is that resemblance.

He isn't leading his psycho's he is killing them not causing influences? He isn't training his hounds? Reek was an epiphany, his little stroke of genius say my name? The Stark ward doesn't know his father in laws bannerman their castles and their heirs? How many fingers? 3 on one hand 2 on the other? How many toes on his feet? Well just take the sausage instead that will help the plot along?

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No, obviously that can't work on the show without a speech. Contrary script is contrary almost as bad as Cersei moods and my bad jokes. Yara is miles outside of Asha's Greyjoys character even from the Yara we saw in S2. Now in S3 she has changed and so has the north. What land and castles did they attack with what army. Winterfell wasTheon mistake. Torhen Square Rodderick Cassel lost 200 knights who teleported it must have been impregnable when he had said it was a pile of sticks close by and it was Theon who attack Winterfell from there with his one ship? Why does she need more of the best fighters again after that disaster? No wonder her dad, dies of a heart attack. How did the box appear although really the least of these worries though?

No offense to Iwan the bastard character. He preforms his character being scary, cruel, sociopathic, macabre, and evil he does this well, although with some definite likeness to ACO. Not entirely his fault there is that resemblance.

He isn't leading his psycho's he is killing them? He isn't training his hounds? Reek was an epiphany, his little stroke of genius say my name? The Stark ward doesn't know his father in laws bannerman their castles and their heirs? How many fingers? 3 on one hand 2 on the other? How many toes on his feet? Well just take the sausage instead that will help the plot along?

We don't know that Theon won't loose more fingers or toes before we get to the point story wise of ADWD. Considering how much people complained about the amount of torture we did see, I am not suprised if they leave the rest of his mutilation off screen. Which I think is proabably for the best.

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I think that's most likely to happen, and it will be a bigger shock to non-readers, no doubt, when they see the character totally transformed. I believe that in ACoK Asha is attracted to Theon after not seeing him so many years, but in view of the fact she wouldn't commit actual incest and the fact she considers him a weak character, she decides to lead him along as a means of showing power over him, in tandem with the poor treatment he receives from the other high-placed Ironborn, to put him in his place. That's the only reason for her actions: and that rules out further incestuous implications. I do agree with Boi that it would have had to have been a very big raven to carry the box to Pyke from The Dreadfort, my conclusion being that it had to be transported by boat. A few episodes have passed since the penectomy, so we have to assume a messenger, not clued in on the details to stop him refusing the order, would have probably got there in time anyway. Pyke, after all, is at the northern end of the map.


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We don't know that Theon won't loose more fingers or toes before we get to the point story wise of ADWD. Considering how much people complained about the amount of torture we did see, I am not suprised if they leave the rest of his mutilation off screen. Which I think is proabably for the best.

I absolutely agree makes people complain when the motivation has dragged to senseless torture.. He is reek now so that means he has a new act?

The point I was making was more or less we haven't really seen the motivation behind the Bastard. We understand he is demented and has some issues which date back to his childhood. Other history has been lost, Regarding Reek. How the Bastard came to be the only heir of the Deadfort. The acts of cruelty on the population, in having the many hunts, the dogs. That werid perversion against the opposite sex. Forgetting importantly a lord would have an entourage or bodyguards who would be influencing each others nature. At his age psycho's breed pyscho's. Much more when a flayed man. If he is killing them wouldn't they have put that sick dog down? When daddy is away, but not having other pyscho's to keep the rest in line?

From what has been seen on the show he had a bad childhood, okay. Along came Theon who made an epiphany of pyschotic nature. Bastard gots a new play thing hehe how can be evul to it, I knows can start ripping parts from it off, so it will learn my name and the new name given to it, must be real funny reeks much. Okay, so your a bastard. Father Bolton had tasked the Bastard with recapturing Winterfell. So it was captured. Theon was captured having some torture from a torturer surprisingly. Then an elbaorate deception of how Theon was freed. Theon must escape and get back home. Suddenly though Theon is mindless he doesn't know how to ride, or where he is going. The hunters catch up to him. In steps the Bastard to the rescue killing his hunters and his men. Leading Theon deceptively back. Theon stupdily doesn't know about his father in laws lands or castles. A real wonder that he hated being a ward as he didn't learn a thing. Saying that the Stark boys weren't killed. Also learning Theon didn't entirely resent being a ward. Surprising the Bastard keeps all of that information? Back to the cell, what is my name? Theon no, really what is it, yes you are a Karstark? Theon forgetting all that time in Winterfell. 3 guesses and minus a finger. Then giving Theon some sex so that he was hard enough to take away his manhood, really couldn't have been found otherwise. Then Theon say your name, that is not it, 3 guesses finally said it.

Asha in the book. She has other lovers, real lovers that Ironborn. Her lovers f..k her till she screams, f..k her till she cries, then f..k her again, and strangely she enjoys all of that according to the books. Not some pretender coming to steal her claim or influence from their father the king. Theon dressed in poncey clothes, speaking all proper, forgetting his religon, and how to take the Iron price. They had shared the horse ride because she wanted to learn about him probably so she could laugh at how reek he was. She was as she was shown in season 2. Season 3, but oh little baby Theon. Now she will go and rescue his honour disobeying her command. Being borderline due to all other interaction we have seen from them together. Questionably in knowing where it might have gone. This from all other themes displayed, obviously not now. A sausage to top that pie? Though really missing a slice of the cake leaving a gap. Why did she return home? She must have delivered that box? Why was she given a command then withdraw? What had they captured? Why would men go with her again, if she really wasn't leading anyone to begin with?

Theon had taken a single ship on their conquest to attack the North claiming for the Ironborn a seperate kingship a state away from the seven kingdom. This feud going back in their lore to their previous rebellion. In which Theon had become a Stark ward, now he is the only male son of Balon. Theon was tasked with easy job of raiding and attacking the coast and Torhen Square. He wasn't trusted to do anything else as an Ironborn wannabe. Asha was given command of the Ironborn their raiding armies. Theon went around his post to capture Winterfell as his prize, so he could prove he was king of the North. Although really it was beacuse he didn't know where Torhen Square is? What had happened to Bran ordering Rodderick Cassel with 200 mounted soldiers and kinghts the remainder of Winterfell's garrison who were going to retake Torhen Square? Asha had landed going somewhere else Moat Calin and commanding her armies to raid and steal other lands?

Now they both have so much more screen time as a result? Bastard must be sh.tt.n kittens as he walks his new dog reek, leading it off to show Asha just how hard he is. She has 50 men maybe they will be enough? Although please,, get rid of those two Greyjoys they both are equally stupid.

Brick and mortar, lots more mortar, for all of these bricks. If the story followed the guidebook we wouldn't be questioning the obivous holes. Most are easily explained with plausible cause. However here iwhen showing these Greyjoys it hasn't made that much sense from season 2. I know my view is cynical but the scenes shown don't add up to well to the plot here

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

Not denying it would be tricky, but, with some fine acting by Alfie Allen (for which he seemed capable last season), maybe it was doable. It wouldn't be unheard of in TV/cinema. But, it's true that it would've been a bitch and a half. However, the difficulty of the alternative doesn't improve my impression on what they've done. I wouldn't say they ruined anything with this storyline, but, according to the reactions I've seen - and my personal reaction - this storyline won't be missed at all.

Oh looky, one person thinks his opinion is fact. Where have I seen that before :rolleyes:

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  • 4 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I literally screamed "YES!" when Ramsay said "we ought to give you a new name". Theon being given the name of "Reek" was pretty much exactly how I imagined them doing it. And now starts one of the finest arcs in the entire series.

Although Ramsay's reveal should have come last episode, just before the wedding. Also didn't care for Theon's manhood being sent to Balon. I'm sure someone will upload a "Dick in a Box" parody on Youtube in 24 hours.

SNL Dick in a box. Hehe. Been looking for it. :D

Very clever!TY!

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