Littlefinger hired a Faceless Man to kill Ned

[Jo498]

My main point was that Ned's death by Joffrey is a much better casus belli than death by an untraceable assassin.

[Lost Melnibonean]

My main point was that Ned's death by Joffrey is a much better casus belli than death by an untraceable assassin.

Absolutely. But when Petyr talked Lysa into poisoning Jon, he could not have known that Joffrey would order the execution of Eddard on the steps of Baelor.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Edmure drove Gregor back across the Red Fork at the Stone Mill. At what point does too many hints that Gregor is the giant armored in stone become too many?

[Lost Melnibonean]

The Arryns are descended from the Kings of Mountain and Vale, one of the oldest and purest lines of Andal nobility. Their sigil is the moon-and-falcon, white upon a sky blue field.

Appendix, Game

Petyr had been a small boy, and he had grown into a small man, an inch or two shorter than Catelyn, slender and quick, with the sharp features she remembered and the same laughing grey-green eyes. He had a little pointed chin beard now, and threads of silver in his dark hair, though he was still shy of thirty. They went well with the silver mockingbird that fastened his cloak. Even as a child, he had always loved his silver.

Catelyn IV, Game

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck.

Eddard III, Game

These scences frmo early in Game foreshadowed Petyr taking Sansa to the Eyrie. Since this bit of foreshadowing takes place during other events that Bran sees in his coma visions inspired by Bloodraven, it could strengthen the argument that Petyr is the giant in armor made of stone.

Now compare that bit with this bit...

"A dream delayed, no more." Dany's tight silver collar was chafing against her throat. She unfastened it and flung it aside.

Daenerys III, Clash, after being rejected by the Pureborn

[Lost Melnibonean]

Here's a possible hint that the giant armored in stone is Tywin...

Tyrion stared at the dregs on the bottom of his wine cup. What would Jaime do in my place? Kill the bitch, most likely, and worry about the consequences afterward. But Tyrion did not have a golden sword, nor the skill to wield one. He loved his brother's reckless wrath, but it was their lord father he must try and emulate. Stone, I must be stone, I must be Casterly Rock, hard and unmovable. If I fail this test, I had as lief seek out the nearest grotesquerie. "For all I know, you've killed her already," he said.

Tyrion XII, Clash

[Ice Turtle]

Here's a possible hint that the giant armored in stone is Tywin...

Tyrion XII, Clash

I think that it may be one of few hints that Tyrion was infected by greyscale.

[Blushingfae]

The person who almost bankrupt the kingdom was our dear King Robert. He would have been a wise man to hire a FM to kill that darling wife of his. But then, he died. Without someone to desire the hit, Jaquen would have just needed to leave KL. His wife got him before he got her.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Can this...

I failed you, Robert, Ned thought. He could not say the words. I lied to you, hid the truth. I let them kill you.

The king heard him. "You stiff-necked fool," he muttered, "too proud to listen. Can you eat pride, Stark? Will honor shield your children?" Cracks ran down his face, fissures opening in the flesh, and he reached up and ripped the mask away. It was not Robert at all; it was Littlefinger, grinning, mocking him. When he opened his mouth to speak, his lies turned to pale grey moths and took wing.

...be related to this...

The third loomed over the other two, a giant in armor made of stone. Inside his visor was nothing but darkness and thick black blood.

...? We appesr to have The George showing us that LF's corruption and lies will lead to the Ned's death. LF may not have been at the Trident with Sandor and Jaime but his plot was moving forward at the time and he was presently lying to Catelyn.

Even if I'm wrong about the Faceless Man theory, does this moth imagery support the idea that LF is the giant armored in stone?

I came across moths again in Daenerys II, Dance and did a little research on the use of moth in literature. Where diurnal butterflies emerge to live in the light, nocturnal moths live in darkness. Thin, but maybe a little association there...

[Elessar]

No, he did not. No evidence for this whatsoever and as everyone knows, evidence for something is more important than lack of evidence against it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I believe this quote supports the OP, at least indirectly...

"Maegor the Cruel decreed four levels of dungeons for his castle," Varys replied. "On the upper level, there are large cells where common criminals may be confined together. They have narrow windows set high in the walls. The second level has the smaller cells where highborn captives are held. They have no windows, but torches in the halls cast light through the bars. On the third level the cells are smaller and the doors are wood. The black cells, men call them. That was where you were kept, and Eddard Stark before you. But there is a level lower still. Once a man is taken down to the fourth level, he never sees the sun again, nor hears a human voice, nor breathes a breath free of agonizing pain. Maegor had the cells on the fourth level built for torment." They had reached the bottom of the steps. An unlighted door opened before them. "This is the fourth level. Give me your hand, my lord. It is safer to walk in darkness here. There are things you would not wish to see."

Tyrion hung back a moment. Varys had already betrayed him once. Who knew what game the eunuch was playing? And what better place to murder a man than down in the darkness, in a place that no one knew existed? His body might never be found.

Tyrion XI, Storm

[Sanset]

Most important though the third shadow envisioned by Bran was faceless. When Ned first met Littlefinger he told him in jest that he was leading him to the dungeons to slit his throat and seal his corpse behind a wall. Mayhaps he was. Mayhaps he expected Lord Eddard to be outmaneuvered by the Lannisters (with his help of course) and end up disgraced and in the dungeons where a Faceless Man would assassinate him and seal his corpse behind a wall, never to return to the crypts at Winterfell.

This theory makes me wonder because Petyr likes to say the truth sometimes, but he does it in this sick way of telling something so horrible that sounds like a dark humour joke, but it is actually the truth of what he thinks and what he is planning to do. Maybe just killing Eddard wasn't enough, he wanted to destroy him, and that is what almost happened because he confessed publicly that he was a traitor (a strike to his honour) and if Petyr was planning to hide Eddard's body in the Red Keep that would be hurting him beyond death because he couldn't rest in the crypt of Winterfell as he obviously wished.

The point is, maybe he intended to do that but the price of the FM was too much for him so he contented himself with killing him. Since AGoT he is sticking shadows against the Starks. Moreover, Petyr plan is not so difficult because it consist in causing damage, to hurt and destroy, to throw fuel to a fire. That is a kind of easy job, a lazy gamble, what is very difficult is to build the peace and to keep the peace.

Petyr is cheap and vicious. What would be the price if he hires the FM? They don't ask just money, they ask a painful price. The only thing he seems to hold dear is his resentment, his pride and anger issues. What if the FM told him: Give up the envy that moves you. He would be losing a dear part of himself. Like Varys but in an immaterial way. Maybe he complained about the price because he tried to hire them, but he couldn't afford them. Besides, he seems to be doing a lot of damage by himself, so there's no need to pay an expensive price for something he can do on his own.

I think his connections are with the Iron Bank. Varys on the other hand could be lying about the story of how he was cut. At this point we know or at least we guess his bloodline is what he holds dear. That could be the price he paid to the FM. He cannot have descendants and maybe he did it to bring the dragons back. I mean to sit a human dragon in the IT. Varys and Illyrio were very carefully to put Viserys and Dany out of the way without kinslaying them.

I think the theory about Bran's vision being the Titan of Braavos representing Petyr and the FM is very interesting. GRRM could be ambiguously painting it like Gregor to mislead. The image fits both well and certainly Petyr was the real threat, not Gregor because he was brainless even before falling in Qyburn poisoned hands. Gregor is not a real threat to anybody in "the Game" because he's is a tool, a puppet. The threat is the person that pulls his string.

I also believe there are more than one "levels" of FM, for instance I think that guys like J'qen Hagar carry out a more secretive agenda than just assassinations for hire.

I totally agree. They do some jobs for other people but they have their own agenda which is evidently more important to them. Actually they gain a lot of info from their clients. They seem to make a lot of profit from these side jobs.

[eveslmatrix]

ETA: As I continued working on this theory I discovered a partially translated interview with GRRM from a Spanish site suggesting that Syrio and the FM were exactly as they appeared with no detailed back stories. Apparently the two characters were nothing more than plot devices to advance the development of Arya. The interview was discussed on this forum in August 2012.

Ive been working on this theory for a while now. After discovering this board and others I was unable to find this theory. Although there are similar theories I was unable to find one stated this way.

I started by asking why was a FM in chains on the way to the Wall. After he was released by Arya and paid the Red Gods debt he moved on. He didnt continue to help Arya and he didnt continue on to the Wall. I dont believe a FM was simply caught and thrown into the Black Cells. He was there on purpose.

But his purpose ended after he was in chains and bound for the Wall. The only change was Neds execution ordered by Joffrey, which caught everybody except maybe Illyn and Janos by surprise. Neds taking the Black was a perfect solution for Cercei and Varys but not for Littlefinger.

There are several clues in the text that Littlefinger hired a Faceless Man to kill Ned. He complained of the cost of hiring a Faceless Man, he had access to the Black Cells and influence over some the guards, etc.

But it was reevaluating the vision induced by Bloodraven when he first appeared to Bran as the three-eyed crow that convinced me. Bran saw three shadows threatening his father and sisters. The first two were clearly the Hound and the Kingslayer. The third loomed over the other two, a giant in armor made of stone. Inside his visor was nothing but darkness and thick black blood.

Most readers assumed the third was the Mountain. His transformation in the Black Cells supported that conclusion. Other readers settled on Littlefinger after learning about his family's past.

Although Littlefinger was a small man who adopted the mockingbird as his sigil, the sigil of his house was the stone head of the Titan of Braavos, and Littlefinger soon proved to be a much graver threat to Brans father and sisters than either the Hound or the Kingslayer, both of whom eventually attempted to aid the Stark girls. And when the Hound and the Kingslayer faced each other during the Hands tourney Littlefinger sat above them in the viewing stands wagering on the outcome.

Most important though the third shadow envisioned by Bran was faceless. When Ned first met Littlefinger he told him in jest that he was leading him to the dungeons to slit his throat and seal his corpse behind a wall. Mayhaps he was. Mayhaps he expected Lord Eddard to be outmaneuvered by the Lannisters (with his help of course) and end up disgraced and in the dungeons where a Faceless Man would assassinate him and seal his corpse behind a wall, never to return to the crypts at Winterfell.

Tyrion XI, Storm

In the prologue to Feast, Pate and his buddies are drinking in the inn surrounded by mist with the beacon of the Hightower looking like a hazy orange moon. Mysterious moons and mist and things appearing to be other than they are suggest that the George is signaling something to the reader. Then we have a nightengale--Petyr's sigil, "trilling gold for iron, gold for iron, gold for iron. Which was passing strange, because that was what the stranger had said the night Rosey brought the two of them together. 'Who are you?' Pate had demanded of him, and the man had replied, 'An alchemist. I can change iron into gold.'" --Prologue, Feast--And Pate heard the nightengale again just before he met the Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt.

LF symbol is a mockingbird

[Salafi Stannis]

No.

[Whitering]

Nobody who knew Ned actually believes he was a traitor, most people will understand that not only was he held prisoner for a time before he said that, but also that the Lannisters held his daughters. So, if LF was hoping to discredit Ned, he didn't do a very good job of it.

[Lost Melnibonean]

LF symbol is a mockingbird

That's his personal sigil. What's the sigil of House Baelish?

[eveslmatrix]

That's his personal sigil. What's the sigil of House Baelish?

The Head of the Titan of Braavos? Also not a nightingale.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The Head of the Titan of Braavos? Also not a nightingale.

Correct. But Petyr is associated with a giant by virtue of his family crest.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Maybe Arya will learn that Petyr hired a Faceless Man to kill her father? That would lead to this...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/112008-arya-not-sansa-is-the-the-maid-that-will-slay-littlefinger-the-savage-giant/

[aryagonnakill#2]

There is no reason to believe this. LF had no real plan, all he wanted was chaos, in fact it seems clear that LF would have backed Ned if he had decided to move quicker and take the children. LF would have gone with Ned if it meant there was gain in it for him and if he helped Ned do what he advised Ned would probably not have thought highly of LF but at least thought he was very helpful. LF also comments that hiring the faceless men to kill a merchant is ruinously expensive and that killing a princess would cost half the realm, well Ned was very well protected and Liege Lord of the North and hand of the king is only 1 step below a princess.

I do believe LF talked Joffrey into killing Ned, but I think the only reason is so that no 1 would know of LF's betrayal, mainly Cat.

[Lost Melnibonean]

There is no reason to believe this. LF had no real plan, all he wanted was chaos, in fact it seems clear that LF would have backed Ned if he had decided to move quicker and take the children. LF would have gone with Ned if it meant there was gain in it for him and if he helped Ned do what he advised Ned would probably not have thought highly of LF but at least thought he was very helpful. LF also comments that hiring the faceless men to kill a merchant is ruinously expensive and that killing a princess would cost half the realm, well Ned was very well protected and Liege Lord of the North and hand of the king is only 1 step below a princess.

I do believe LF talked Joffrey into killing Ned, but I think the only reason is so that no 1 would know of LF's betrayal, mainly Cat.

Outstanding retort, aryagonnakill. I realize this theory is fighting up a pretty steep hill, and it's more than possible The George never had a backstory for the Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt to the Red God. However, I think your assumption that Petyr was hedging his bets with The Ned is faulty. Petyr took systematic steps to lure The Ned onto ground of his choosing, to instigate conflict between Houses Stark and Lannister. And then Littlefinger sees that with Cat's capture of Tyrion and Tywin preparing for war it's time to spring the trap. But when Robert renames The Ned as Hand Littlefinger decides to remove Ned's principal backer from the board and advises Cersei of a monstrous boar...

"Is there word of the king?" Ned demanded. "Just how long does Robert intend to hunt?"

"Given his preferences, I believe he'd stay in the forest until you and the queen both die of old age," Lord Petyr replied with a faint smile. "Lacking that, I imagine he'll return as soon as he's killed something. They found the white hart, it seems . . . or rather, what remained of it. Some wolves found it first, and left His Grace scarcely more than a hoof and a horn. Robert was in a fury, until he heard talk of some monstrous boar deeper in the forest. Then nothing would do but he must have it. Prince Joffrey returned this morning, with the Royces, Ser Balon Swann, and some twenty others of the party. The rest are still with the king."

Petyr was never going back The Ned.