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Littlefinger hired a Faceless Man to kill Ned


Lost Melnibonean

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He doesnt have any FM, the price/sacrifice is too high for someone as greedy as LF. They always charge high enough for it to be a painful sacrifice. A commoner or a king can buy their service, this is not about wealth, this is about sacrifice, if you have nothing their will take your life or your child, if you are rich they will ask for your dearest possession etc. LF can give em the 6 000 000 dragons he stole to the realm and they would stilll say No.

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So, let me get this straight. Jacen killed Joffrey and used his face, then warged into Ice to kill Ned... I like this theory so far. But if he warged into Ice, he must have been Howland Reed all along... So Howland Reed was a FM! This explains why he is rarely ever seen. And also how he killed all those kingsguard at the ToJ. Maybe Howland Reed is the one who trained Arya, who is of course also Jacen and Syrio... I think he might be one of the three heads of the dragon, to be so powerful (and also since crannogmen have such powerful green powers, he can ride the green dragon). Wait, wait... Riding dragons... Maybe Penny is really Howland Reed, who is a FM hired to kill Tyrion and also to get close to Dany so he can blow the dragon horn, and since HR is a Targ (midget targ) blowing the horn and killing Dany would complete him as tPwwP.

These theories are finally starting to make sense.

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LF did not just complain about the cost of hiring a FM.

He specifically complained about the cost of hiring one to kill a merchant. Namely, that it was ludicrously expensive to hire one to kill a mere merchant, so he could only imagine how much it would cost to kill Dany.

I just reread that scene. :D

I think that this idea of the FM being so costly being equated with a monetary value is underestimating the whole transaction. The person is giving up something of themselves.

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A lot of folks on this thread are giving Littlefinger too much credit for being able to control the game and get specific outcomes. Go back to the time of Jon's death and think about what outcomes were sure to happen from LF's perspective. Cat’s visit to King’s Landing was a surprise to Littlefinger and Varys. Apparently, neither Littlefinger nor Varys knew the reason for Cat’s visit; nor did either know that Cat’s hands had been cut. After his little birds observed Rodrik’s meeting with Aron Santagar in the Red Keep to discuss the dagger wielded by Bran’s would be assassin Varys knew that she had arrived with Rodrik, carrying a dagger, and wishing to learn who owned it. Littlefinger was not aware of the dagger until Varys asked to see it. Apparently thinking on his feet Littlefinger claimed that he lost the blade to Tyrion Lannister when he backed the Kingslayer in a tourney and Tyrion backed Loras. Littlefinger used his first encounter with Cat in King’s Landing to cast further suspicion on the Lannisters and to gain Cat's trust. He continued to gain Cat’s trust by informing her as to the events her family endured on the road around the Trident. After Ned arrived in King’s Landing, Littlefinger told the Starks that he wanted to keep the Lannisters from learning of Cat's visit and Cat trusted Littlefinger enough to tell him all of the relevant details and everything the Starks suspected regarding Bran’s injury and Lord Jon’s death. Cat, fully trusting in Littlefinger’s pretended friendship, convinced Ned to rely on Littlefinger.

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A man must be near for a name to be spoken.

Orrrr, to be less cryptic, feelers had been put out about hiring a FM to off Daenerys, but this fell through.

Lysa had been secretly in love with Littlefinger for years. Littefinger used that affection to rise under Jon to Master of Coin and move from Gulltown to King’s Landing six years before Jon’s death. Littlefinger convinced Lysa to poison her husband to prevent Jon from sending her son to foster at Dragonstone and to clear the way for Lysa to wed Littlefinger eventually. Lysa poisoned Jon with the tears of Lys.

Ironically, very soon after Jon’s death, Robert agreed to allow Tywin to foster Sweet Robin. Lysa, who lived almost exclusively for her sickly son, fled King’s Landing for the Eyrie the following day with her son in tow. Since Lysa was already at, or on her way to, the Eyrie when the Starks received word of Jon’s death, she probably fled King’s Landing very soon thereafter.

Littlefinger then had Lysa send a secret message to her sister, accusing the Lannisters of murdering her husband. Littlefinger persuaded Lysa to send the message to her sister to turn the discord between the Lannisters and Starks into open animosity and possible bloodshed to foment a chaotic environment to his advantage.

The most likely timeline allowed for a six-month period between the death of Jon and the arrival of Lady Catelyn in King’s Landing. The secret message appeared to arrive in Winterfell right in the middle of that period. Mayhaps Littlefinger traveled to the Eyrie sometime after Lysa fled. Mayhaps that was when he convinced her to send the secret message. But his absence from court would have been noticed. Mayhaps he let it be known that, as Master of Coin, he needed to travel to Braavos to meet with agents or principals of the Iron Bank and mayhaps he actually did, stopping in Gulltown on the way and meeting secretly with Lady Lysa at the Eyrie to convince her to write the secret message. And mayhaps he also met with the Kindly Man at the House of Black and White. He would have had a three-month window to travel by ship, perhaps the Titan’s Daughter, to Gulltown, the Eyrie, and Braavos and back to King’s Landing.

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I can't see LF using a FM for any purpose unless it was to save his life, or his web unravels and he goes to the House of Black and White to take his final revenge and pay with his life. IIRC, the FM always require a payment that is dear to the person, not necessarily high monetary value, so LF would have to hand over a savage amount of his acquired fortune or make some larger sacrifice (can't imagine what) in order to hire them. I'm intrigued to know what JH (won't try to spell it!) was doing on his way to the Nights Watch though.

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Cat.

And Sansa.

They weren't his to give though.

And I think Littlefinger thinks he loves and cares about Cat and later Sansa, but he doesn't. They're just some big prize to Littlefinger, and like everyone else, he only cares about what they can do for him.

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So, if I get this right.... he hired one as a 'backup plan'?

Nah hiring the FM was THE plan. It would have been executed (no pun intended) if Joffrey hadn't ordered Illyn to chop off Ned's head, rendering the plan moot.
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A lot of folks on this thread are giving Littlefinger too much credit for being able to control the game and get specific outcomes. Go back to the time of Jon's death and think about what outcomes were sure to happen from LF's perspective. Cat’s visit to King’s Landing was a surprise to Littlefinger and Varys. Apparently, neither Littlefinger nor Varys knew the reason for Cat’s visit; nor did either know that Cat’s hands had been cut. After his little birds observed Rodrik’s meeting with Aron Santagar in the Red Keep to discuss the dagger wielded by Bran’s would be assassin Varys knew that she had arrived with Rodrik, carrying a dagger, and wishing to learn who owned it. Littlefinger was not aware of the dagger until Varys asked to see it. Apparently thinking on his feet Littlefinger claimed that he lost the blade to Tyrion Lannister when he backed the Kingslayer in a tourney and Tyrion backed Loras. Littlefinger used his first encounter with Cat in King’s Landing to cast further suspicion on the Lannisters and to gain Cat's trust. He continued to gain Cat’s trust by informing her as to the events her family endured on the road around the Trident. After Ned arrived in King’s Landing, Littlefinger told the Starks that he wanted to keep the Lannisters from learning of Cat's visit and Cat trusted Littlefinger enough to tell him all of the relevant details and everything the Starks suspected regarding Bran’s injury and Lord Jon’s death. Cat, fully trusting in Littlefinger’s pretended friendship, convinced Ned to rely on Littlefinger.

So what's your point? If anything, your post makes Littlefinger look even more dangerous and more manipulative if he could think that quickly on his feet in order to not get rid of Ned, but Tyrion Lannister. If Littlefinger would have sent a Faceless Man after anyone, it would have been Tyrion. Instead of sending a Faceless Man after him though, he sent a cougar, a King's Guard, and an old lady to dispose of him. Littlefinger is definitely afraid of him and has tried to have him killed at least 3 times. Ned is easily manipulated, to where there's no reason for him to send someone as costly as a Faceless Man after him. Littlefinger played Ned like a harp, to where sending a Faceless Man after him would have been absolutely ridiculous.

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I disagree, I believe Cersie hired Jaqen to kill Robert, in case he survived the hunt. I mean come on, Cersei is dumb but not dumb enough to put her life and the life of her kids in the hands of a boar...

Umm, where is Cersei getting the finances to hire a Faceless Man? All her money comes from either her father or husband, and neither of them are giving her anything. The only other payment that the Faceless Men would have accepted was her own children, and she obviously wouldn't do that.

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So what's your point? If anything, your post makes Littlefinger look even more dangerous and more manipulative if he could think that quickly on his feet in order to not get rid of Ned, but Tyrion Lannister. If Littlefinger would have sent a Faceless Man after anyone, it would have been Tyrion. Instead of sending a Faceless Man after him though, he sent a cougar, a King's Guard, and an old lady to dispose of him. Littlefinger is definitely afraid of him and has tried to have him killed at least 3 times. Ned is easily manipulated, to where there's no reason for him to send someone as costly as a Faceless Man after him. Littlefinger played Ned like a harp, to where sending a Faceless Man after him would have been absolutely ridiculous.

So then you would say that Ned's execution was preordained from the moment LF planned Jon Arryn's murder, or maybe ever since Cat told Brandon to let LF live? I disagree. There were too many variables. LF never met Ned before Ned came to KL. All he knew was his reputation. LF had no way of knowing that the Lannisters would bungle into trying to kill Bran (heck, the Lannisters didn't even know it) which gave him the chance to build trust with Cat. LF is not a fighter; Ned was. LF would wave known that Ned walked away after a fight with the Sword of the Morning. He could not have hoped to corner Ned in some dark alley and stabbed him in the back. Ned would have kicked his ass. Nor could he rely on hired fighters since killing Robert's Hand and dearest friend would have earned a dance with Illyn. LF had no way of knowing that Cat would kidnap Tyrion, sending the hot-headed Kingslayer into a foolish fight with Ned, which left Ned badly injured.

LF did plan to manipulate Ned into a confrontation with House Lannister by slowly leading Ned to the truth of the twincest. But LF had no way of knowing that Ned would take his discovery to Cercei before telling his friend Robert. What if Ned had called on Stannis sooner and/or made common cause with Renly? What if Robert had not gone hunting? What if Ned had put 2 and 2 together more quickly?

LF operates smoothly among chaos but chaos by definition can't be controlled.

If LF wanted Ned dead and planned it before Ned came to court the best way to ensure it was to hire a FM. He had the means and the ability to do so. That he did is hinted at in the text. And this would explain Bran's vision and the purpose of the FM that paid Arya's debt to the Red God.

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They weren't his to give though.

And I think Littlefinger thinks he loves and cares about Cat and later Sansa, but he doesn't. They're just some big prize to Littlefinger, and like everyone else, he only cares about what they can do for him.

Well, we agree on this.
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There truly has to be a purpose for the faceless man to pose as a prisoner and then to change his heading not killing anyone of significance...

I think Jaqen was there to kill Ned, but it probably was Balon the one who called the hit, then he reneged or refused to pay since he was killed by Jeoffrey and not the faceless man, (the cost is beyond money, if I understood right) as was himself killed by being thrown off that bridge at a later date :dunno:

That is one very well-thought suggestion. Totally in-character for Balon to not pay a faceless man... :D But then again, it could be Euron who placed a contract on Ned's head... And then on Balon as per the traditional theory. It might have some justification in the other theory which places Euron in an alliance with the Others - who would be seriously impeded in their quest to kill everyone, if Eddard Stark was commanding the Night's Watch... Or Euron needed a large-scale war to make his own move for the Iron Throne while attention was paid elsewhere?

As for those who say that Littlefinger couldn't afford or wouldn't like paying so much - the guy runs the crown's finances! He can use Robert's money as king to kill the hand of said king via a faceless man...

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So then you would say that Ned's execution was preordained from the moment LF planned Jon Arryn's murder, or maybe ever since Cat told Brandon to let LF live? I disagree.

Then you don't understand the character. From the moment that he was denied Cat's hand and was sliced up by Brandon, he wanted the Tullys and the Starks destroyed, as well as the other highborn houses whose system kept him from the woman he was obsessed with. From the moment Ned married Cat, Littlefinger began plotting his death.

There were too many variables.

Littlefinger thrives in situations with many variables. Everyone else gets lost, but Littlefinger survives.

LF never met Ned before Ned came to KL. All he knew was his reputation.

And it was a very well known reputation, and a very easy to predict man. Next to King Robert and Tywin, I think that everyone could describe Ned Stark's character better than any other person.

LF had no way of knowing that the Lannisters would bungle into trying to kill Bran (heck, the Lannisters didn't

even know it) which gave him the chance to build trust with Cat.

The Lannisters didn't try to kill Bran (the knife incident at least). That was all Joffrey being a little shit.

LF is not a fighter; Ned was. LF would wave known that Ned walked away after a fight with the Sword of the Morning. He could not have hoped to corner Ned in some dark alley and stabbed him in the back. Ned would have kicked his ass. Nor could he rely on hired fighters since killing Robert's Hand and dearest friend would have earned a dance with Illyn.

You're getting caught up to much into specifics on dozens of ways Littlefinger could have killed off Ned. He's obviously not going to give Ned a fair sword fight, but that's not Littlefinger's game. He's not going to play Ned's game, he's going to fuck him, as he put it so elegantly in the series.

LF had no way of knowing that Cat would kidnap Tyrion, sending the hot-headed Kingslayer into a foolish fight with Ned, which left Ned badly injured.

He was hoping for it, and it happened. He knew Cat wasn't too bright and if she ever ran into Tyrion on his journey back South that she would abduct him and maybe even kill him.

LF did plan to manipulate Ned into a confrontation with House Lannister by slowly leading Ned to the truth of the twincest. But LF had no way of knowing that Ned would take his discovery to Cercei before telling his friend Robert. What if Ned had called on Stannis sooner and/or made common cause with Renly? What if Robert had not gone hunting? What if Ned had put 2 and 2 together more quickly?

Ned and Robert had a very well known falling out after the events of the Sack of King's Landing. Ned was disgusted with the deathes of the Targaryen children, and Robert said that they were merely dragon spawn. Littlefinger knew that Ned knew that he couldn't tell Robert about the incest without sentencing a 7 and 8 year old to death, and that Ned would try to make sure they got away safely before going to Robert. When Ned refuses to send an assassin after a 14 year old with an army 100,000 men strong, then Littlefinger's suspicions are confirmed. It doesn't really matter when Ned discovers it, since he would certainly try to help Myrcella and Tommen, which would mean he has to tip off Cersei.

LF operates smoothly among chaos but chaos by definition can't be controlled.

Littlefinger would disagree with you.

If LF wanted Ned dead and planned it before Ned came to court the best way to ensure it was to hire a FM. He had the means and the ability to do so. That he did is hinted at in the text. And this would explain Bran's vision and the purpose of the FM that paid Arya's debt to the Red God.

You absolutely refuse to see the payment that would be involved and why it's incredibly impractical. Littlefinger did fine manipulating Ned to his death without having to give up everything he worked for. You are completely wrong. Drop it.

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