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Will Theon kill...[Book Spoilers]


Spidey

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So, with Balon still alive and Mel and Stannis not giving a shit about the leeches anymore anyway, there's no reason to have Balon die in a timely fashion now. Meaning, they could let him live for the entire next season.

(It certainly would remove the need for the Kingsmoot and also the casting of Euron, Victarion and Aeron)

So that got me thinking...

Yara is on here quest to free Theon now. What she doesn't know is that he's been brainwashed by Ramsay. So what if Ramsay wants the Ironborn to free him?

They succeed and take Theon back to Pyke. Yara then leaves for Deepwood Motte, leaving Theon with his father.

In the dramatic conclusion of Theons season four arc, he then confronts his father, pushes him of the bridge and returns to the Dreadfort, his transformation into Reek finally complete.

If they were to change the story, it's not the worst possible theory or idea. A little too on the nose for me. It would be kind of hard to explain why he wouldnt just stay and be King of the Ironmen then. Or why he would change back to Theon for a fake Arya out of all things.

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I could see Theon killing Balon, specially if he hears how he decided to let him at Ramsay's (inexistent) mercy. But I can not possibly imagine him returning to Ramsay.

And without a reason for Theon to return to the North, I don't see him returning to the Iron Islands.

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Why is everyone ignoring the obvious?

Yara doesn't need to be at the kingsmoot. In fact, it might make her/Theon's eventual story more compelling if she willingly gives up her chance at the throne and instead chooses to search for Theon, who at that point (after Balon's death), is one of her few remaining family.

It's different than the book, but so what? Yara's kingsmoot stuff was fine in the book, but she loses, and she is even kind of indifferent about it by the end. TV audience will like a scene where she gets word her father is dead, her adviser says "blah blah, but you were your father's choice to take the throne" and she instead choses Theon.

Goes a long to having TV audience root for her :-).

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I have to agree. I think it'll be a really interesting dilemma for her character if Balon dies and Euron just straight-up takes the throne while she's gone, so she's torn between contesting that or further pursuing Theon. It seems like it accomplishes basically the same thing as the whole Kingsmoot process in the books, as well as being generally more interesting on TV.

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aside from the other theories here, I think it's possible to have Asha/Yara to get captured on the way/held back or whatever and end up with stannis while the death & kingsmoot goes on without her

I think this is most likely. I'm not exactly sure what the showrunners have in mind with this Yara the savior arc for season 4, but I am positive that their reasoning for doing it are to give Yara and Theon something to do in Season 4. I think Yara will be unsuccessful in Season 4 in her quest to save Theon, and they'll find a way to show Ramsay's prowess in making this happen. But I think she'll eventually still get captured by Stannis and I think she'll be the one, with a party from Stannis's camp, who saves Theon and fake Arya outside of Winterfell and brings them back to Stannis's camp. And I do think that she'll miss the Kingsmoot.

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I just don't see Yara getting recalled to the Kingsmoot just after they opened up this new subplot of her trying to rescue Theon.

That would be almost as big a tease as the season two cliff hanger. Against my better judgement, the rescue Theon plot line appeals to me. If it ends without a fight, it would be a big let down.

Personally, I don't think Theon needs any brainwashing to kill Balon AND Asha/Yara. He should have killed HER in Winterfell.

AS for the IronBorn in general - better story without 'em.

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I mentioned this theory in another thread, but I'll elaborate a bit more here.

I think the beginning of Reek's ADWD plot will be moved up to Season 4. Reasons for this are that, with Yara heading for the east of Westeros, the Kingsmoot and the battle of Deepwood Motte are almost certainly out. Also, Ramsay's letter to Balon has the deadline for all the Ironborn to get out by the moon's turn, which implies that he's going to leave the Dreadfort next season. So, Theon-wise we're going to get him let out of the dungeons, already Reekified, the surrender at Moat Cailin, and him meeting Fake Arya, possibly returning to Winterfell in the finale.

Regarding Fake Arya, I think they're going to have Roose go to KL for reasons (there's enough time in between seasons for that travel to take place), and once Sansa flees Tywin will reveal he had Fake Arya as a backup plan, and Roose will take her up North. (This is to give Roose more screentime as the breakout villain, and in anotehr thread someone mentioned the idea of a Tywin/Roose scene and I selfishly want that to happen). Assuming the PW happens early in the season (Episode 2 or 3), this scene would happen about mid-season, which would be a good hook to go back to Theon on. I think they have to leave Theon out of the first few episodes, partly so they don't drag out the plot (a big problem with how they paced Theon's plot this season), and also it would give time for Theon's 'change' to happen offscreen.

With Yara, I agree with those who think she'll get captured by Stannis. What I think willl happen is she'll get to the Dreadfort (or maybe to the opening of the White Knife or something), and find out from some hapless Bolton soldier that Ramsay already left and has gone to Moat Cailin. She may find out about Balon's death at this time as well. She will then decide to go south and catch Theon at moat Cailin, but run slap-bang into Stannis' fleet and get captured. She then gets taken to the Wall with Stannis & co. This will happen in Episode 5 or 6, with Stannis getting to the Wall in Episode 6 or 7.

Kingsmoot is out. Balon will get killed and Euron will take the throne, since he is the oldest brother and both heirs are unnaccounted for. And he has the dragon horn, which scares everyone else into submission. Dunno which episode this will happen in.

This means at the start of Season 5 Theon will be at Winterfell with the Boltons and Fake Arya, Asha will be at the Wall with Stannis, ready to march on Winterfell. I'm pretty sure that Season 5 will end with the Battle for Winterfell from TWOW. I used to think they would try and squeeze two seasons out of AFFC/ADWD, but considering the machete they've taken to some sideplots already, I think it's only going to be one season.

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I mentioned this theory in another thread, but I'll elaborate a bit more here.

I think the beginning of Reek's ADWD plot will be moved up to Season 4. Reasons for this are that, with Yara heading for the east of Westeros, the Kingsmoot and the battle of Deepwood Motte are almost certainly out. Also, Ramsay's letter to Balon has the deadline for all the Ironborn to get out by the moon's turn, which implies that he's going to leave the Dreadfort next season. So, Theon-wise we're going to get him let out of the dungeons, already Reekified, the surrender at Moat Cailin, and him meeting Fake Arya, possibly returning to Winterfell in the finale.

Regarding Fake Arya, I think they're going to have Roose go to KL for reasons (there's enough time in between seasons for that travel to take place), and once Sansa flees Tywin will reveal he had Fake Arya as a backup plan, and Roose will take her up North. (This is to give Roose more screentime as the breakout villain, and in anotehr thread someone mentioned the idea of a Tywin/Roose scene and I selfishly want that to happen). Assuming the PW happens early in the season (Episode 2 or 3), this scene would happen about mid-season, which would be a good hook to go back to Theon on. I think they have to leave Theon out of the first few episodes, partly so they don't drag out the plot (a big problem with how they paced Theon's plot this season), and also it would give time for Theon's 'change' to happen offscreen.

With Yara, I agree with those who think she'll get captured by Stannis. What I think willl happen is she'll get to the Dreadfort (or maybe to the opening of the White Knife or something), and find out from some hapless Bolton soldier that Ramsay already left and has gone to Moat Cailin. She may find out about Balon's death at this time as well. She will then decide to go south and catch Theon at moat Cailin, but run slap-bang into Stannis' fleet and get captured. She then gets taken to the Wall with Stannis & co. This will happen in Episode 5 or 6, with Stannis getting to the Wall in Episode 6 or 7.

Kingsmoot is out. Balon will get killed and Euron will take the throne, since he is the oldest brother and both heirs are unnaccounted for. And he has the dragon horn, which scares everyone else into submission. Dunno which episode this will happen in.

This means at the start of Season 5 Theon will be at Winterfell with the Boltons and Fake Arya, Asha will be at the Wall with Stannis, ready to march on Winterfell. I'm pretty sure that Season 5 will end with the Battle for Winterfell from TWOW. I used to think they would try and squeeze two seasons out of AFFC/ADWD, but considering the machete they've taken to some sideplots already, I think it's only going to be one season.

Wow, this all makes sense to me and I'm on board with all of it, though I don't know what Yara's going to do at the wall all that time. But the march to Winterfell from Castle Black being more direct makes a lot of sense. I do think they'll try to keep it as a slow trip due to weather, though, and I'd predict that we'll get the Battle for Winterfell instead in early Season 6 so as to split up that battle with the Battle for Meereen --- which I think it makes more sense to move up since they can't possibly leave Dany in Meereen for more than 2 full seasons.

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I thought the Ironborn attacking Dreadfort sounded familiar. Then I remembered this old A Feast for Crows blurb published on Amazon in 2002.

Continuing the most ambitious and imaginative epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings.

The action in Book Four of A Song of Ice and Fire begins the day after the end of A STORM OF SWORDS. While the remaining northern lords war endlessly with each other and the ironmen of the isles attack the Dreadfort, Sansa becomes a skilled player in the game of thrones with Littlefinger as her mentor, Arya a skilled assassin, and Bran a magician and shapeshifter of great power. All seek to gain revenge for the death of their parents and Robb Stark, whose head was cut off and replaced with the head of his direwolf.

Valar morghulis. All men must die, and wolves, too. Danerys trains her growing dragons and learns from Barristan the secrets of her father, her brother Rhaegar, and other matters that will culminate at Starfell. And Jon Snow is the nine-hundredth-and-ninety-eighth lord commander of the Night's Watch. The Wall is his. The night is dark, and he has King Stannis to face. The cold wind is rising, and still there are inhuman powers gathering in the north.

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Scrapping the Kingsmoot gives the audience pretty much no real reason to even care about Euron. Why should they care about who killed Balon and took his throne? Balon has been an afterthought in the show anyways. But if you keep the kingsmoot and the dragon horn, you link Euron to arguably the most popular character on the show: Daenerys. You also show that this is someone that can turn the game on it's head really quickly if he turns out to be successful.

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I thought the Ironborn attacking Dreadfort sounded familiar. Then I remembered this old A Feast for Crows blurb published on Amazon in 2002.

Nice find! Interesting, if D&D are doing what Martin originally planned. Sort of a director's cut?

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Scrapping the Kingsmoot gives the audience pretty much no real reason to even care about Euron. Why should they care about who killed Balon and took his throne? Balon has been an afterthought in the show anyways. But if you keep the kingsmoot and the dragon horn, you link Euron to arguably the most popular character on the show: Daenerys. You also show that this is someone that can turn the game on it's head really quickly if he turns out to be successful.

That doesn't need the Kingsmoot.

I agree with the outline above.

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So, with Balon still alive and Mel and Stannis not giving a shit about the leeches anymore anyway, there's no reason to have Balon die in a timely fashion now. Meaning, they could let him live for the entire next season.

I think Balon will die in the first episode of season4

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