[Book/Show Spoilers] What will Stannis do next season?

[l3ol3o]

God the Stannis crybabies are insufferable

I'm not a huge Stannis fan but I hate how Stannis is portrayed on the show. When I think of Stannis I think Just, Righteous, and Zealous (Because of his burnings and forced conversions). TV show Stannis is a tyrannical dickhead who is controlled by Mel. The Justness and Righteousness is lacking in the show. That is what I like about Stannis.

And that last scene with Stannis was just terrible all around. Between him ordering Davos executed like he was Joffrey or how fast Mel just decides to abandon 1 war and switch to the other.

[DeShawn]

What happens next season? Probably he wins the battle against the wildlings because Melisandre tells him what to do, where to go, what to think. He probably starts talking crazy shit before Davos saves the day and sets him straight. Saving Stan from himself!

Why? Because the producers demand it. And they will rewrite that shit to fit their plans.

[The Drunkard]

My guess?

- Sending Davos to White Harbour

- Salladhor Saan leaving.

- The wildling battle.

- Meeting with the potential Watch Commanders.

- Offering Jon Snow Winterfell.

- Leaving on his march to Dreadfort/Winterfell/Deepwood Motte, or just discussing it.

I'm scared about what will happen to Mance's child. They'll probably have Stannis want to eat the baby's brain or something.

[zaphodbrx]

Mance's kid is so doomed, if there is a kid on the show. Burn burn burn!

I fully expect that Stannis will capture Yara on a noble quest to save her brother and will try to burn her or something.

[TheDarkOne]

I see the show trying to make the Wildlings incredibly sympathetic. The big moment for Stannis int he books will be reduced to him as the oppressor of their freedom, or some other rubbish.

What has been done to his character is unforgivable. It's even more egregious as the actor playing him is fantastic. if they would give him some good material to work with it could bring the show back on course.

[zaphodbrx]

I see the show trying to make the Wildlings incredibly sympathetic. The big moment for Stannis int he books will be reduced to him as the oppressor of their freedom, or some other rubbish.

Oh without any doubt.

Stannis will be

1. An oppressive conquerer, destroying the wildlings desire to be free, as he is the ONE TRUE KING and all should bow before him.

2. An fanatic lord of light zealot, burning weirwoods and other false gods.

They will probably make change the Yara storyline so that when she gets captured she's this noble person going to rescue her brother ( Sob! ) and get captured by the evil guy.

As for fighting in the North, it'll probably be again because of his ambitions and a crusade against false gods.

[WinterisAlwaysComing]

He can stare at some flames and mention "Iron Throne is mine by right" twelve more times.

Also, I don't see how the book Stannis is that much better - he was more two dimensional, in my opinion - like a stern robot. We just saw a hint of guilt after Renly's death in CoK and are supposed to think, "Oh, so he is human. Brilliant."

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

it wouldn't make sense for him to capture asha/yara on his way to the wall. stannis will be taking the narrow sea all the way up to eastwatch by the sea to get there bc that's the fastest route. asha/yara will be on the complete other side of the north and maybe she ends up going to deepwood motte for more soldiers bc it would be difficult to take the dreadfort with only 50 men. she did take deepwood motte in clash and maybe she left men there once she returned to pyke.

[protar]

it wouldn't make sense for him to capture asha/yara on his way to the wall. stannis will be taking the narrow sea all the way up to eastwatch by the sea to get there bc that's the fastest route. asha/yara will be on the complete other side of the north and maybe she ends up going to deepwood motte for more soldiers bc it would be difficult to take the dreadfort with only 50 men. she did take deepwood motte in clash and maybe she left men there once she returned to pyke.

Did Asha not mention she'd be going all the way round the narrow sea(which makes no sense.)? Not that it would make any sense to have her catch up with Stannis who would be way ahead of her by that point. Anyway, Stannis' arc for this season:

• E1: En-route to the Wall, sends Davos to treat with Manderly.
  
• E2-6: Absent.
  
• E7: Arrives at the Wall.
  
• E8-10: Politics at the Wall ending with Jon named LC.
  

[Thaune]

What has been done to his character is unforgivable.

I keep seeing this from a number of people who seem hell bent on sticking to it, and to me it's nonsense.

Book Stannis is very much like Show Stannis, from killing his own brother to being willing to sacrifice Edric/Gendry and execute Davos.

He's also willing to burn all kinds of people for the Red Woman.

From everything we see in the books, and that's ONLY from Davos POV, he's very much the same.

Every scene not featuring Davos is something we simply never see in the books.

Stannis was portrayed as a bad MOFO in season 1, including climbing the walls of KL (written by GRRM himself).

And then he was portrayed as a broken man with a ruined army and fleet, needing something more to succeed than

military prowess.

I think people who liked Stannis in the books are just a bit let down actually seeing him without romanticizing it in their heads.

He's a flawed character, like everyone else, and he's very human.

Personally, I thought he's been done rather well, and while I do think the show has some glaring mistakes (where's Ghost?), the whole

Stannis thing is being blown completely out of proportion.

[zaphodbrx]

I keep seeing this from a number of people who seem hell bent on sticking to it, and to me it's nonsense.

See if you actually read the books you would never come to this conclusion.

Stannis character is totally, utterly ruined. At this point he could burn Davos and they could make a new storyline for the North, for all I care. There's nothing left.

I copy pasted a post from another thread to illustrate all the problems.

Here is what was cut from Stannis which makes me so annoyed:

1. He's a lot more skeptical of Melisandre from the very beginning:

Quote

..."Is the hand of R'hllor spotted and palsied?" asked Stannis. "This sounds more like Walder Frey's handiwork than any god's."

"Be quiet, woman. You are not at a nightfire now."

"There are lies, and lies, woman. Even when these flames speak truly, they are full of tricks, it seems to me."

2. He is much more reluctant to sacrifice Edric:

Quote

"He is mine own blood. Stop clutching me, woman." King Stannis put a hand on [selyse's] shoulder, awkwardly untangling himself from her grasp. "Perhaps Robert did curse our marriage bed. He swore to me that he never meant to shame me, that he was drunk and never knew which bedchamber he entered that night. But does it matter? The boy was not at fault, whatever the truth."

3. He actively seeks Davos' advice, entirely because he knows Davos will always tell the truth and not just say what he wants to hear.

Quote

"Your Grace!" Davos edged forward. "Might I speak?"

Stannis closed his mouth so hard his teeth snapped. "My lord of the Rainwood. Why do you think I made you hand, if not to speak?" The king waved a hand. "Say what you will."

4. It takes three deaths to convince him, not one - which is a huge difference, because it signals a great reluctance to sacrifice his kin rather than eagerly grasping at any opportunity to increase his power:

Quote

"Even an onion smuggler knows two onions from three. You are short a king, my lady."

"Stannis gave a snort of laughter. "He has you there, my lady. Two is not three."

"To be sure, Your Grace. One king might die by chance, even two... but three? If Joffrey should die in the midst of all his power, surrounded by his armies and his Kingsguard, would not that show the power of the Lord at work?"

"It might." The king spoke as if he grudged every word.

5. Stannis is already thinking about the Long Night, and the battle against the others, and is motivated from the start by his duty to fight them when the time comes:

Quote

"-is one boy! He may be the best boy who ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm." His hand swept across the Painted Table. "How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies... a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone... she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?" He ground his teeth. "We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must... we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty. Melisandre swears that she has seen me in her flames, facing the dark with Lightbringer raised on high. "Lightbringer!" Stannis gave a derisive snort. "It glimmers prettily, I'll grant you, but on the Blackwater this magic sword served me no better than any common steel."

"Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning... burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him to ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?"

6. Even after Joffrey's death, Stannis is conflicted to the point where he makes Melisandre swear by her visions on pain of death.

Quote

"Stannis rounded on him in a cold fury. "I know his name. Spare me your reproaches. I like this no more than you do, but my duty is to the realm. My duty..." He turned back to Melisandre. "You swear there is no other way? Swear it on your life, for I promise, you shall die by inches if you lie. "

7. Stannis spares Davos not because he's useful as hand, but because he recognizes him as his conscience. Because has just saved his sould. When Stannis later meets with Jon at the wall, he's actually humbled by this illiterate smuggler. Even if they leave this scene in, it loses its impact because without all the buildup from 1-6 above, it comes across as self-serving and false instead of the natural consequence of the man we've been watching the entire time.

Quote

"Yes, I should have come sooner. If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."

[Thaune]

See if you actually read the books you would never come to this conclusion.

I've read the books three times.

And see, if you weren't a condescending cultist maybe you'd loosen up and realize most of Stannis' action are basically what they are in the show,

thought the road there is obviously simplified (it's a show, not a book, after all).

I mean, some people's reactions are just ridiculous.

"Stannis wouldn't sacrifice Gendry".

"Stannis wouldn't execute Davos."

"Stannis wouldn't laugh". (WTF btw)

etc etc.

Yes, his crossing over to the Light goes on faster in the show than in the books, but no UnSullied views him as weak or evil.

It's a guy who's had his army crushed and is desperate for something to give him a leg up on his enemies.

Not that it matters, but there's also a massive difference between Edric and Gendry... Edric is basically "family", and Gendry is a complete stranger.

Stannis knows Edric, he doesn't know Gendry.

(seeing as how you say it took 3 deaths to convince him, but you don't make the distinction between Edric and Gendry)

Stannis is a grey character, flawed and human, and he kills his brother and he sacrifices people and he is bent on a certain path and is stubborn and proud.

Man... Some people here... It's like... Jesus. It's like they think they wrote the books, not GRRM.

[Ravi Seaworth]

What makes you think that they won't focus on a redeeming Stannis? Just because his behavior in this last episode was different from what was depicted in the books, do you think they will go as far as to victimize the wildlings? No way! As some already said, the battle of the wall will probably take place before episode 9 and we will have Stannis the Mannis. But I don't expect a fully righteous Stannis in the show, either. To me, he was always a grey character that could not abandon his sense of honor for a more reasonable stance regarding the wildlings, unlike John.

[zaphodbrx]

What makes you think that they won't focus on a redeeming Stannis?

Because Stannis has passed the point of no return, just like Robb in the previous season.

If you remember, Robb spent the entire of season 2 being pissy with his mom and banging a hot chick, culminating in his marriage for twu wuv, which was the point of no return for him.

Guess what happened in this season? Robb was pissy with his mom, kept banging his hot chick, had no bannermen around him to give him any advice, lays siege to empty castles, marches his army around randomly, laughs at his grandfather's funeral, makes suicidal plans based on the advice of a hot chick that doesn't know where Winterfell is, shows complete disregard for riverlands ( Harrenhal's not in the north-- fail! ), shows a complete lack of concern for his homeland being ravaged by ironborn.

It was a litany of awfulness that could only finally be ended by death . We got nothing of the young boy king with the weight of the world resting on his shoulders, none of the interaction and reliance on his mother. He was just a random a-hole and the only reason people felt bad about his death is because of the shock value of the RW.

The same thing is going to happen to Stannis. Everything he does will be shown in an extremely negative light. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a scene with the wildlings going 'FREEDOM!!!!" like Braveheart and then they will be defeated by the evil fanatic religious zealot and we'll feel bad for them.

[W.Kane]

He can stare at some flames and mention "Iron Throne is mine by right" twelve more times.

Also, I don't see how the book Stannis is that much better - he was more two dimensional, in my opinion - like a stern robot. We just saw a hint of guilt after Renly's death in CoK and are supposed to think, "Oh, so he is human. Brilliant."

you seriously don't know what you are talking about. book Stannis was two dimensional?!!! lol

book Stannis is one of the most complex characters in the whole series . people who say he was like a robot in the books , haven't paid much attention to Davos chapters IMHO.

[Thaune]

Because Stannis has passed the point of no return, just like Robb in the previous season.

If you remember, Robb spent the entire of season 2 being pissy with his mom and banging a hot chick, culminating in his marriage for twu wuv, which was the point of no return for him.

Guess what happened in this season? Robb was pissy with his mom, kept banging his hot chick, had no bannermen around him to give him any advice, lays siege to empty castles, marches his army around randomly, laughs at his grandfather's funeral, makes suicidal plans based on the advice of a hot chick that doesn't know where Winterfell is, shows complete disregard for riverlands ( Harrenhal's not in the north-- fail! ), shows a complete lack of concern for his homeland being ravaged by ironborn.

It was a litany of awfulness that could only finally be ended by death . We got nothing of the young boy king with the weight of the world resting on his shoulders, none of the interaction and reliance on his mother. He was just a random a-hole and the only reason people felt bad about his death is because of the shock value of the RW.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Robb was genuinely liked by show fans, and the message that he's a very young man in love, who's a fantastic military commander but also a lousy politician is fairly clear.

He had plenty of bannermen in seasons 1 and 2, season 3 featured no military counsels, and although I'd very much prefer seeing the Umbers, the Mormonts, etc. they really weren't missed all that much.

He was really not pissy at his mother this season, she was imprisoned for releasing Jaime and that's it.

I do think Robb's story could've been done better (less Talisa, more military counsel for example), but it was still okay.

And Stannis is something completely different, no matter how much you don't want to face it, he is VERY much like in the books.

But hey, at least while you're wrong, you have a condescending know-it-all attitude about it.

[The Drunkard]

Book Stannis is very much like Show Stannis, from killing his own brother to being willing to sacrifice Edric/Gendry and execute Davos.

Yeah, sure, if you ignore the context behind the two different situations presented.

I bring this up continuously, yet the show-defenders ignore it. Book Stannis was adamantly opposed to burning Edric because it conflicted with his sense of justice. The boy was innocent, so he does not die. He made Melisandre prove she what she was saying via the leeches, and even as kings dropped like flies due to what you'd think was Melisandre's magic, he remained opposed to the idea. It was only after Joffrey died, and after his hope that they ''must send for me now'' was rebuked did he really consider killing Edric. And even then, he threatened Melisandre with a painful death if she was deceiving him. The books made his logic explicitly clear: one child's life is not worth more than an entire kingdom's.

On the show he was ready to kill Gendry as soon as he showed up on Dragonstone, his sole morality Davos made him test Melisandre, and he was easily convinced after a single king's death.

He's also willing to burn all kinds of people for the Red Woman.

Actually, the only person Stannis burnt was Alester Florent, and he was trying to force Stannis' surrender behind his back. Selyse ordered the deaths of the others whilst Stannis was attacking King's Landing.

Compare that to the show, where Stannis and Melisandre were burning anyone that spoke against them.

I think people who liked Stannis in the books are just a bit let down actually seeing him without romanticizing it in their heads.

He's a flawed character, like everyone else, and he's very human.

I'm disappointed the show opted to ignore the very flawed yet ultimately righteous character GRRM created for this needy, petulant, cruel and seemingly stupid character they created.

[Dany4eva]

hopefully he will die next season :drool:

[TheEvilKing]

I'm sure that the Battle at the Wall and the LC election will be in the last two eps of the season. Will probably sail from Dragonstone around ep 5/6. Before that, probably a Davos/Salla scene, and maybe Davos treating with some random Stormlands lords, or even sellswords. Just throwing this out there, but they could have Davos at the Vale trying to recruit Lysa Arryn for Stannis's cause.

[Fragon]

I know that some of us who says that Stannis is truly ruined base it in some idealised opinion of Stannis which is not true in the books, but I know that most of us think that Stannis is ruined not because he slept with Mel or he wanted to burn Gendry or he condemned Davos to death, these things all eventually happened we know it, but the show oversimplified in a such an extreme way that Stannis' personality is basically gone. We know we can't have everything in the books, changes are necessary, but if it will cost a character's motivations and personality to take à 90° turn then don't do it, slow it down.

zaphodbrx's post (#31) clearly shows what's the deal with Stannis on the show. Just because his actions end him up in the same place doesn't make the character get to that point in the story. What makes aSoIaF a really compelling story is its characters and their flaws and their good sides and how most of those feel extremely real. You can basically understand every decisions behind every character and the show's starting to lose this aspect for the sake of advancing plot quickly and it only cheapens the story.

I was actually really happy when I learnt that aSoS was split in two seasons because I thought it would give every character enough screen time to build up their personality, which kinda lacked in season 2. And guess what? Instead of character building we got excessive Olena Tyrell pwning anyone she speaks, we've got excessive Theon torture, we've got excessive Tyrion, whitewashed more than ever, we've got Podrick&Shae, we've got the poor Littlefinger plot. What we really needed was more time with Jon (the real Jon snow that appeared once they've got south the wall) and wildlings, we needed some historic (knight of the laughing tree would not take more than 3 minutes, as we've seen that Rat Cook only needed 30 sec) build up via Bran instead of a rabbit skinning competition, we needed Sansa buildup, we needed Stannis buildup, we needed Robb's bannerman (was it hard to have the nameless extra's in RW interact with Robb in a few episodes?) etc. They should've really reduced King's Landing screentime, I couldn't believe when I saw that Cat had less lines than most of all characters and Tyrion was still at the top eventhough he had basically no storyline this season except from marrying Sansa.

I'm really hoping for serious change in the way show handles things otherwise it will quickly lose consistence and with it popularity. Some people already see it like a medieval soap opera, they need to do justice to GRRM's work.