[Book Spoilers] The Ripple Effect

[jmk51]

I think Yara could still end up where ever she end's up in the book, and overtaken by Stannis - I do think they get rid of the kingsmoot, because I'm still not sure what the point of that was? They have to put Roose's bastard in Winterfell, they've been wearing that storyline out.

Good topic, but its all complete speculation because the writers know more than we do. We have no idea how important the "horns" are, if Victaron does more than just take a boat to Dany, what the Rooster does, exactly what the convoluted story that is Lady Stoneheart is, etc. I think they'll take a meat cleaver to the last two books and much of the story will be streamlined.

[Lord Elrosir]

I agree with the poster believing that the majority of the politics electing Jon as Lord Commander will be cut in streamlining the process. I also believe that Janos Slynt will appear and be beheaded like in the books.

Kingsmoot can easily be forgone in my opinion. Most of the Dorne storyline also, but I personally would like to see Doran and Arianne's conversation about "Justice. Vengeance. Fire and Blood".

I'm more worried about how Season 5 will go down when everyone goes splitsville.

[chimere]

The only thing that makes sense for Yara is to be convinced that taking Deepwood Motte is the thing to do before they march on the Dreadfort, and that's where she gets word that her dad has died and her uncle has called a Kingsmoot. I'm pretty sure in the books she was at Deepwood Motte when she found out, so that puts her where she needs to be.

[7V3N]

The only thing that makes sense for Yara is to be convinced that taking Deepwood Motte is the thing to do before they march on the Dreadfort, and that's where she gets word that her dad has died and her uncle has called a Kingsmoot. I'm pretty sure in the books she was at Deepwood Motte when she found out, so that puts her where she needs to be.

I'd have to disagree, seeing as they gave her an incredibly (over)dramatic scene where she declares she will be going to rescue Theon from the East. I think it is clear they are trying to create distance between her and the Iron Islands before Balon dies. This gives us time in season 4 for her to get there and do some work towards getting Theon (eventually getting toward Winterfell) and Euron will be introduced in season 5, I think.

[chimere]

Oh yeah the kingsmoot wasn't until AFFC anyway. Well I guess I have to wait 10 months to see. :dunno:

[isiman]

No, but the wedding would be cut. And instead, they would simply have Roose there to maybe rebuild or in preparation to meet Stannis. They have had no problem expanding Roose's role, and have even featured him. To be honest, I wouldn't mind them doing this because I rather enjoy the actor and character for TV Roose.

ETA: I should also mention that I expect them to expand the role of one of my favorite minor characters: Wyman Manderly. Viewers will love some Frey Pies.

What makes that arc so great is Theon's redemption by saving Jeyne, how is that supposed to happen without a marriage?If you are correct, Theon's character will suffer a severe blow.

Also what would happen with Jon and the letter?Or Mance?No, I don't think it makes really sense.

Once Sansa escapes and can't be found, the writers will have plenty of time to set up/explain fake Arya.

[7V3N]

What makes that arc so great is Theon's redemption by saving Jeyne, how is that supposed to happen without a marriage?If you are correct, Theon's character will suffer a severe blow.

Also what would happen with Jon and the letter?Or Mance?No, I don't think it makes really sense.

Once Sansa escapes and can't be found, the writers will have plenty of time to set up/explain fake Arya.

I never saw it as Theon's redemption. Sure, he does a good thing, but it is mainly the spearwives who do it. He simply makes the jump. Redeeming, but not by a whole lot.

With the letter to Jon: As I said before we know Jon doesn't get the chance to act on it so, given how the show has operated thus far, I imagine it could get cut. I believe the letter is part of a scheme by Stannis. He caught the maester that had been betraying him by sending letters to Winterfell, so he simply sent Ramsay a letter saying Stannis was defeated. However, Stannis knows now that a Frey/Bolton force is heading his way and is able to ambush them. So while the Boltons are in Winterfell believing Stannis to be dead, Stannis is heading to Winterfell to fight them.

^That is an example of great, yet complex, parts of the books that the show has shied away from. They have instead gone for much less subtle, and more heavy-handed info.

Also, when Sansa escapes it is not like she will disappear from the show. Actually, she may get more screentime, as viewers' interests in her story will be peak-high when they see she has been teamed up with Littlefinger.

[7V3N]

Again, this is not me hoping they cut the Winterfell wedding. This is me suspecting that they will to cut down on time. When so many details are important (Mance/Rattleshirt, speerwives, Theon/Reek, Jeyne Poole/Arya, Winterfell, Stannis, Ramsay's letter, Stannis' turncloak maester, ...), rather than trying to fit them in, the show has often been more willing to adjust the plot to fit its limited storyline.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Which is by turns creating plot holes you can fit your arm through.

[7V3N]

Which is by turns creating plot holes you can fit your arm through.

Hence this thread :)

[RSasoiaf]

Considering what they have done so far, I think its expected they will create a couple plot holes, however big they may be, but they will get back on track in time for all major events.

So.....

1) This one is quite easy. They can have Yara going or even showing up anywhere just telling she turned back or did not have the chance to take de Dreadfort. This would not be a problem because her taking the Dreadfort is quite unrealistic anyway. The Dreadfort is quite far from the western coast and the Ironman would have serious logistical issues raiding so far inside. Also, the Dreadfort has some forces around to defend itself and has ruthless leadership active. So....Mission Impossible will likely be Mission Impossible and Yara gets back.

2) Stannis can still care about the Iron Throne despite knowing about the White Walkers. There have been worst things on the show so far. He can just keep going for the Iron Throne as he may feel the need to have some kind of 7Kingdoms United Resistence against what´s coming for them. Also he can still care about the Iron Throne because he is Stannis and show Stannis is not really 100% coherent since the start.

3) Coldhands can still show up and will likely show up because Bran has to go wandering a bit North of the Wall before he gets to the Children. And I dont think we will not see him next season so there will be time to have Coldhands around.

4) Jon´s injuries will likely be fully healed for him to fight against the wildlings. The show has had no issues with time and geography so they will not care how close events actually are in time. We will have to assume Jon just had time to get back in business. The politics behind his elections will likely be too confusing to include and will be cut...most likely. He will show up as Lord Commander.

5) Jon and Ygrite will likely still get to see each other again just before she dies. No way the show is going to miss on that. They will forget she tried to kill him before and they will do as if they both love each other....just before she dies.

6) Jaime is really the biggest plot hole I can see walking around right now, he and Brienne. This will be a bit tricky. Most likely they will have Sansa out from KL really soon next season...could even happen before the Wedding. This could be done in a way to help reset Tyrion and Shae to where they should be before the next events unfold. Could also help getting Tyrion as low as possible to get him ready for is Lannistercide. If all goes well, Jaime and Brienne will not be in the same room as Sansa ever. This way we can assume for future references that they never had the chance to see each others. Also Jaime never really got the chance to start working on his word because the moment he wants to start on that, Sansa is already gone. I would say Sansa and Littlefinger departure will be sudden and early and can also involve Shae in a way that could make her and Tyrion fight really hard.

6.1) The full situation at KL is really open at the time being due to Shae being such a different character. Shae is also a really big plote hole walking around. The way she is right now, its really hard for her and Tyrion to go full circle and get their parts in the events we know should come if they follow the books. So far they seem to follow the books quite well on all major events so my guess is they will find some really contrived way to reset Shae and that may or may not have something to do with solving also Jaime and Sansa´s issue.

7) Balon is quite easy! He will die as soon as we get back to the Ironislands. Most likely Yara will be back home using Littlefinger teleporting device and we will be ready for the kingsmooth. Euron and Victarion should be merged tough, makes a lot of sense to merge them.

[Donaldys I Trumpagar]

This thread is to discuss the changes made particularly in the last episode of season 3, and what sort of long-term changes to the plot are to be expected. Please, this is not about opinions of changes (past, present, or potential). This is to discuss how the plot is changed by this episode in regards to the books. Beware of spoilers from both the show and books.

>>>3) The delay of Coldhands -- This is simple, I think. Coldhands has not been present as of yet, but we did a teaser through the ravens when Sam kills the Other.

• In the books, Coldhands not only saves Sam from wights, but also escorts him to the Black Gate, has Sam deliver Bran & co. to him, and then escorts Bran to the cave of the Children of the Forest.
  
• I expect Bran's party to be attacked by wights, and much like how he saved Sam in the books, Coldhands will save Bran and his group, and deliver them to the cave.
  
• ASIDE: The simplification of the Black Gate just makes some things seem dumb, like climbing the Wall (which we saw earlier this season, and saw how risky it is). Not a big deal, but it must be in some viewers' heads and undermines the climb, as well as the intelligence of the free folk as a whole.
  

I am increasingly coming to believe that Coldhands will entirely be cut from the show. He serves no real long-term purpose to the plot and who/what he is is something of an enigma, even to hard-core readers.

Every action taken by Coldhands can either be written out of the show's plot or given to another character.

[7V3N]

6) Jaime is really the biggest plot hole I can see walking around right now, he and Brienne. This will be a bit tricky. Most likely they will have Sansa out from KL really soon next season...could even happen before the Wedding. This could be done in a way to help reset Tyrion and Shae to where they should be before the next events unfold. Could also help getting Tyrion as low as possible to get him ready for is Lannistercide. If all goes well, Jaime and Brienne will not be in the same room as Sansa ever. This way we can assume for future references that they never had the chance to see each others. Also Jaime never really got the chance to start working on his word because the moment he wants to start on that, Sansa is already gone. I would say Sansa and Littlefinger departure will be sudden and early and can also involve Shae in a way that could make her and Tyrion fight really hard.

You may be on to something here. You are right in that it would be like a reset button (since they overplayed/over-whitewashed Tyrion + Sansa). Sansa gone means Shae becomes a whore again, Jaime isn't as guilty for not sending her to her family, and Tyrion can love Shae like he used to.

[7V3N]

I am increasingly coming to believe that Coldhands will entirely be cut from the show. He serves no real long-term purpose to the plot and who/what he is is something of an enigma, even to hard-core readers.

Every action taken by Coldhands can either be written out of the show's plot or given to another character.

They have built the WW up to be so dangerous in the show that I think he is necessary. The alternative is we see Meera blasting WW's with the dragonglass arrows (and I must say I really hope they don't go this route).

With North of the Wall being a basic no-man's land (emphasized again by Sam in his dialog to Bran), I think they must encounter somes wights or WW's for people to not be like, "Really? They just walked all the way to the deep North?"

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

ETA: I should also mention that I expect them to expand the role of one of my favorite minor characters: Wyman Manderly. Viewers will love some Frey Pies.

On the Game of Thrones wiki, it lists Wyman Manderly as a guest star on "The Rains of Castamere" episode, and you can see a fat bearded guy with a mermaid pin behind Robb and Catelyn while Lord Frey is walking Roslin up the aisle. The only possible reason to do that is so they can reference it later.

I totally didn't even pick up on the Frey/Pies thing until like my third read through, and now I think it's the greatest easter egg ever!

IAN MCNEICE FOR WYMAN MANDERLY!

[7V3N]

On the Game of Thrones wiki, it lists Wyman Manderly as a guest star on "The Rains of Castamere" episode, and you can see a fat bearded guy with a mermaid pin behind Robb and Catelyn while Lord Frey is walking Roslin up the aisle. The only possible reason to do that is so they can reference it later.

I totally didn't even pick up on the Frey/Pies thing until like my third read through, and now I think it's the greatest easter egg ever!

IAN MCNEICE FOR WYMAN MANDERLY!

It was actually his son Wendel I believe. I'll check on that. This gives Lord Manderly the personal reasons for wanting to kill the Freys.

Yupp, follow the link here.

[intheswamp]

I don't think the Jaime/Brienne/Sansa plot will change that much. The Purple Wedding seems like it will happen early next season, Sansa will either be taken away by Littlefinger right after or possibly even right before that event. So, Jaime can send Brienne out to find and protect her like he did in the books.

[7V3N]

I don't think the Jaime/Brienne/Sansa plot will change that much. The Purple Wedding seems like it will happen early next season, Sansa will either be taken away by Littlefinger right after or possibly even right before that event. So, Jaime can send Brienne out to find and protect her like he did in the books.

But the point is, it is a HUGE difference with Jaime having Sansa well within his grasp. They need something to show that he is taking the oath to Catelyn seriously.

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

It was actually his son Wendel I believe. I'll check on that. This gives Lord Manderly the personal reasons for wanting to kill the Freys.

Yupp, follow the link here.

my bad, i knew that, just a typo. i wonder if they'll have wylis in the mix somewhere, or if they'll have the scene where Wyman Manderly "executes" Davos. I would love to see Davos go to Skagos. Davos even hinted at it... "You need me to go convince this Lord and that Lord to fight for you"

[CakeOfTheMorning]

Jaime aks Sansa to be smuggled out of KL with Brienne, Sansa has already struck a deal with LF and refuses since she doesn't trust a Lannister (Jaime is hurt but understands), PW hapens, Sansa disappears, Jaime thinks she is in danger since he has no idea what happened, he sends Brienne, all is well.