[Book Spoilers] The Ripple Effect

[Magic 8 Ball]

I would suppose the Kingsmoot is important as Vic seems to have an important role to play vis a vis Dany and the Dragons, also the Ironborn seem to figure prominently in her prophecies.

[Minsc]

- Have Dontos show up and tell Sansa that he's going to get her out of Kings Landing after Joffrey's wedding.

- Then have Jaime go to Sansa and have him tell her of his promise and ask her if there's anything he can do to help her. She refuses because first, she has Dontos and second, because she doesn't trust Jaime (he is a Lannister, after all).

There you go, Jaime attempts to help Sansa, she refuses and then when she goes missing, he sends Brienne to find and protect her.

That only works to once again make Sansa look stupid and have her attacked by show watchers, seeing how there is no reason for anyone(including Sansa) to trust Dontos while we all have seen why she should trust Brienne/Jaime.

[Little and Less]

Actually Jaime's story line isn't really altered too much because at the end of the season, when he arrives in KL, he doesn't know that Catelyn or Robb are dead yet. My guess he will find out about this via Cersei, Tyrion and/or Tywin.

My guess is he will side with Tyrion as to the treacherous way Robb was murdered - at least Tywin could have had him die in battle. This will lead Jaime to try to help Sansa get out of KL (maybe attempt to send her to Casterly Rock for safekeeping), especially if King Joff continues to torment Sansa and Tyrion (since the King can do what he likes). He of course will be opposed by Tywin, who will expect Jaime to leave the Kingsguard and take his rightful place as Tywin's heir. Just as he plans to have Brienne escort Sansa out, the PW happens and LF will of course steal Sansa away while Jaime deals with the PW. (Because, let's face it LF will figure out the Lannisters plans.)

If Gendry does end up in KL, he will tell Brienne that Ayra is still alive. (I LOLed when I thought of how funny it would be if Gendry delivers Oathkeeper to the castle, as he returns to KL as an armour's apprentice -this is fantasy you know. Of course Brienne will see his resemblance to Renly.) Brienne will still be charged with finding both Stark girls by Jaime. As Ayra saved Gendry's life, Gendry may join Brienne's quest to find Arya and Sansa.

I feel like Tywin's part in the RW will be the final blow in his relationship with both Tyrion and Jaime. This will truly have both characters question the whole point of the GOT. We already saw this happen with Tyrion at the end of S3 and my guess is Jaime will follow suit.

[Versiroth]

That only works to once again make Sansa look stupid and have her attacked by show watchers, seeing how there is no reason for anyone(including Sansa) to trust Dontos while we all have seen why she should trust Brienne/Jaime.

Wow... are you serious? Sansa should trust Jaime because the VIEWERS have seen him in a better light? Maybe Sansa should looks straight at the camera and ask us to choose for her? Why would Sansa trust a Lannister after learning that they orchestrated the murder of her mother and brother?

Also, what reason did Sansa have to trust Dontos in the books?

[six]

That only works to once again make Sansa look stupid and have her attacked by show watchers, seeing how there is no reason for anyone(including Sansa) to trust Dontos while we all have seen why she should trust Brienne/Jaime.

This. I do feel that they've changed the plot for no reason this time, other than they wanted to tell a different a story, and because they only care about certain characters i.e. not Sansa or Brienne.

[Minsc]

Wow... are you serious? Sansa should trust Jaime because the VIEWERS have seen him in a better light? Maybe Sansa should looks straight at the camera and ask us to choose for her? Why would Sansa trust a Lannister after learning that they orchestrated the murder of her mother and brother?

Also, what reason did Sansa have to trust Dontos in the books?

Seeing how they felt the need to make it so she befriended Tyrion despite the fact his family was at war with her's, they have already established that she seems very trusting of them. Something that defenders of that change have repeatedly argued is needed because of viewers' expectations thus the same would be true for Jaime's offer to rescue her.

She trusted him as how she rescued him from death and they slowly established a relationship afterwards, it wasn't that he came up to her a year later and asked her to escape with him.

[Low Born]

I have a feeling that Gendry will end up joining Brienne and Pod on their walkabout.

[Versiroth]

Seeing how they felt the need to make it so she befriended Tyrion despite the fact his family was at war with her's, they have already established that she seems very trusting of them. Something that defenders of that change have repeatedly argued is needed because of viewers' expectations thus the same would be true for Jaime's offer to rescue her.

She trusted him as how she rescued him from death and they slowly established a relationship afterwards, it wasn't that he came up to her a year later and asked her to escape with him.

Sansa was trying to make the best of her situation. And also, the writers wanted to show that Tyrion and Sansa had some form of potential before completely shattering it with the news of her families murders. After that, I very seriously doubt that she'll be chummy with any Lannister again. Tyrion included. Which is why she'll likely jump at the opportunity to leave the capital when Dontos offers to take her away. As far as it being "a year later", that really is irrelevant. The first time she really spoke to Dontos after saving him in the books was when he offered to help her get away. All they need to do is show a quick scene within the "previous on" scenes showing Sansa saving Dontos before having him approach her in an episode. After the RW, he'll take her to LF as he did in the book.

Jaime will have no part in Sansa's escape.

[Minsc]

Just immediately trusting someone who haven't had contact with in almost a year is unbelievably naive and stupid, at least in the books it was right after saving him thus she might trust him as he might believe he owes a debt to her. Something that is harder to believe if he just waits a year before doing anything.

Simply, I would rather they screw over Jaime and his story then have it so they continue to make Sansa look stupid in front of the audience.

[Versiroth]

Just immediately trusting someone who haven't had contact with in almost a year is unbelievably naive and stupid, at least in the books it was right after saving him thus she might trust him as he might believe he owes a debt to her. Something that is harder to believe if he just waits a year before doing anything.

Simply, I would rather they screw over Jaime and his story then have it so they continue to make Sansa look stupid in front of the audience.

Having her trust a Lannister after finding out that the Lannisters murdered her mother and brother would make Sansa seem WAY more stupid than her trusting Dontos to get her away from said Lannisters. Seriously, it's not even close. She has less than zero reason to ever trust anything a Lannister says again.

[Kyoti]

1) Yara vs. Bolton: Sounds fun. They both need something to do for an entire season + until they get to the DWD stuff. Yara does not need to be at the Kingsmoot, nor does a Kingsmoot need to happen. Balon is dead, Theon and Yara are MIA, so his next oldest brother takes the SSC. Neat, tidy, and all of the boring Iron Island garbage is cut out.

2) Stannis and the Wall: Not sure how much I like Stannis the devout follower of the Lord of Light, but I think the show has done one thing that the book as failed to do except on a very limited basis; make the White Walkers the real threat. When winter comes and the long night falls all of the bickering for the Iron Throne will not matter one bit and the show has done a great job illustrating that. If it happened on the show the way it did in the book it would blindside a firmly established audience, so they have mentioned this early and often. Having Stannis focused on the true threat is a necessity, and having more and more characters become aware of this is as well.

3) The delay of Coldhands: Minor character. No real significance (i.e. anyone with sufficient skill can get Bran where he needs to be). The only reason he even matters at all in the show is if he is indeed Benjen Stark.

4) Jon's return to the Castle Black: Jon was wounded in the books too. I see no reason at all why his story would change. If anything he will be made to look more heroic and more capable. Thorne and Slynt will definitely be back, there is just too much drama there not to include it and it ties back to season 1 which will be great for TV viewers.

5*) Ygritte's one-on-one with Jon: The wolves attacked 2-3 guys and the rest scattered. There is no way two dire wolves took out the entire raiding party. Also, I would not be surprised to see Tormund survive the raid on Castle Black and be reunited with Mance and the rest of the wildlings south of the wall after the Stannis attack. I can see them cutting a lot of the DWD Jon/Stannis/Wildlings political stuff from the show.

6*) Jaime's early arrival at King's Landing: I don't see this causing any real issues for Show Jamie. Book Jamie has a very big change of heart and we know that and see that because he is a POV, Show Jamie has only really shown this in one single scene. Book readers love that scene, but every single unsullied I have talked to thinks Jamie is scum because they haven't spent a couple hundred pages inside his head to understand why he shoved Bran out that window. I think the reality is that him and Brienne will both want to return Sansa to her family, but there is no place to send her so they will instead vow to protect her (imagine the impact it will have if both of them are there to wittness Joff do something horrible to Sansa). Then the PW will hit, she will disappear, Oathkeeper will be given, and the mission to find Sansa will be on. It can also be the cause of the rift between Jamie and Cersi; he'll think Joff was the monster that got what he deserved and she will still think of him as that jolly fellow he was as a baby. Right now Cersi hasn't been screwing everyone in sight, drinking like a fish, or really being a horrible person at all, so something has to push them down these separate paths.

7*) Balon and the Kingsmoot: Boring useless garbage, cut it out as much as possible. This plot only matters if Victarion's plot is central in the last two books. If it doesn't matter there then it should be cut from the show entirely.

[CakeOfTheMorning]

1) Yara vs. Bolton: Sounds fun. They both need something to do for an entire season + until they get to the DWD stuff. Yara does not need to be at the Kingsmoot, nor does a Kingsmoot need to happen. Balon is dead, Theon and Yara are MIA, so his next oldest brother takes the SSC. Neat, tidy, and all of the boring Iron Island garbage is cut out.

Exactly. Victarion obeys without fuss, Aeron doesn't do anything because little Balons are lost.

6*) Jaime's early arrival at King's Landing: I don't see this causing any real issues for Show Jamie. Book Jamie has a very big change of heart and we know that and see that because he is a POV, Show Jamie has only really shown this in one single scene. Book readers love that scene, but every single unsullied I have talked to thinks Jamie is scum because they haven't spent a couple hundred pages inside his head to understand why he shoved Bran out that window. I think the reality is that him and Brienne will both want to return Sansa to her family, but there is no place to send her so they will instead vow to protect her (imagine the impact it will have if both of them are there to wittness Joff do something horrible to Sansa). Then the PW will hit, she will disappear, Oathkeeper will be given, and the mission to find Sansa will be on. It can also be the cause of the rift between Jamie and Cersi; he'll think Joff was the monster that got what he deserved and she will still thing of him as that jolly fellow he was as a baby. Right now Cersi hasn't been screwing everyone in sight, drinking like a fish, or really being a horrible person at all, so something has to push them down these separate paths.

What if the show tries to give us a new suspect on Joffrey's death? I like the structure that is a bit Cluedo ''Who killed Joffrey?''. We have Tyrells, LF, Varys, Tyrion, Tywin and Oberyn as prime suspects. Why not add Jaime? Joffrey tries to harm Sansa, Jaime is there and tells him that he will kill him if he ever lies hand on Sansa again (you know, for sympathy factor towards jaime). Jaime has suspicious glances towards Brienne during the PW and, bam!, Joffrey dies. Who did it? The hairnet conspiracy? The dwarf who threatened Joffrey before the wedding 3 times? Tywin who didn't like the Casterly Rock insult and his king being batshit crazy? Varys and Illyrio plot? Jaime trying to protect Sansa as he vowed? Shae trying to poisin Tyrion? The Red Viper known for his poisonous ways?

Maybe people find this a bit cliché but it is easier to have mystery around the death because, on TV, you can show people's expressions, orient viewers towards particular suspicions with shots focusing on objects (like the hairnet),...

[Envie]

6*) Jaime's early arrival at King's Landing: I don't see this causing any real issues for Show Jamie. Book Jamie has a very big change of heart and we know that and see that because he is a POV, Show Jamie has only really shown this in one single scene. Book readers love that scene, but every single unsullied I have talked to thinks Jamie is scum because they haven't spent a couple hundred pages inside his head to understand why he shoved Bran out that window. I think the reality is that him and Brienne will both want to return Sansa to her family, but there is no place to send her so they will instead vow to protect her (imagine the impact it will have if both of them are there to wittness Joff do something horrible to Sansa). Then the PW will hit, she will disappear, Oathkeeper will be given, and the mission to find Sansa will be on. It can also be the cause of the rift between Jamie and Cersi; he'll think Joff was the monster that got what he deserved and she will still think of him as that jolly fellow he was as a baby. Right now Cersi hasn't been screwing everyone in sight, drinking like a fish, or really being a horrible person at all, so something has to push them down these separate paths.

I really like your take on this one in particular. Like many others, I was scratching my head when I saw they pushed up Jaime's arrival at King's Landing to now, before the PW. I thought it was creating a plot hole that wouldn't make sense but you've put it in a way that does make it seem more plausible at least for the show and doesn't really change the outcome either way. You're right, we readers had many chapters to see the transformation that was happening internally with Jaime while show viewers have only seen his recent change of heart in relation to Brienne. There's going to need to be some scenes at the Red Keep which helps cement the fact that Jaime has in fact changed very much - both in how he feels about Cersei and Joffrey's actions as well as his oath and helping Sansa. Bumping up his arrival to KL now makes sense from a show perspective even though I originally thought it unlikely to work having him present at the PW.

[Greywolf2375]

Jaime and Brienne - She's kept under guard after Loras accuses her of murder. So what with that and Jaime dealing with Cersei and the Kingsguard there's time for the PW and Sansa to be off with Littlefinger.

drama.

ETA2:

Regarding Loras and Brienne--

Didn't Loras say in a conversation with Margaery that he didn't believe it was Brienne? My memory of season 2 is fuzzy because, to be honest, much of it I wanted to forget. But after Renly's death, still outside of Storm's End, I think he says something like that to Marg.

Yes - Loras stated to Marg that he did not believe Brienne had anything to do with it. (I couldn't remember if that had happened but it was confirmed.)

that doesn't stop Cersei or someone else coming up with some reason to have her detained for some reason - whether there is blame for Jaimes hand because they were fighting, because Tarth doesn't have sapphires, whatever the reason, etc.

[jmk51]

Yep, I think you guys have it - there isn't anywhere else to send Sansa to, except maybe the Vail. Everyone is dead, Bolton is Warden of the north. Littlefinger slinks back in during the PW, see's his chance among the chaos/confusion/Tyrion's arrest, takes her to the Vail. No one knows where she goes, Brienne seeks her out.

The rest of the stuff doesn't really seem like plot holes, just things that can be taken out. Coldhands? Deus Ex.

[Greywolf2375]

Having her trust a Lannister after finding out that the Lannisters murdered her mother and brother would make Sansa seem WAY more stupid than her trusting Dontos to get her away from said Lannisters. Seriously, it's not even close. She has less than zero reason to ever trust anything a Lannister says again.

The only two people the story has provided that Sansa would have any chance of trusting are Marg and Shae. There is 0 chance she would trust Dontos - she has not seen him since the throne room scene and has not interacted with him since she saved him. Now, when Joffreys wedding is coming up, someone comes up to her and says he can get her out of there? No, unless it is one of those two ladies there isn't anyone in KL she could trust without being made to look like a fool.

[zaphodbrx]

The only two people the story has provided that Sansa would have any chance of trusting are Marg and Shae. There is 0 chance she would trust Dontos - she has not seen him since the throne room scene and has not interacted with him since she saved him. Now, when Joffreys wedding is coming up, someone comes up to her and says he can get her out of there? No, unless it is one of those two ladies there isn't anyone in KL she could trust without being made to look like a fool.

Producers have already said Dontos will be re appearing.

You really over estimate her intelligence, we're talking about 'will they let me invite my family' Sansa.

[Kyoti]

Producers have already said Dontos will be re appearing.

You really over estimate her intelligence, we're talking about 'will they let me invite my family' Sansa.

Yeah, Sansa doesn't really start thinking past her own sadness and self-interest until the Vail.

[Little and Less]

D & D should just combine Euron and Victarion into one scheming uncle who shows up immediately after Balon dies, kills all Balon's supporters and claims that he is the King of the Iron Isles. No Kingsmoot needed.

Yara will be furious and head back only to hear that said Uncle has set sail and gone to get Dany and her dragons.

The Crannomen will stop her return (probably at Moat Catlin) and she will be captured by Stannis/Northmen.

[Minsc]

Producers have already said Dontos will be re appearing.

You really over estimate her intelligence, we're talking about 'will they let me invite my family' Sansa.

Yes, we understand the show writers don't like her character and continue to diminish her. However, we are rather hoping that they will grow up and actually start treating her character with some respect.