Aegon VI's Wives: Arianne and Margaery?

[TheGreatstag]

Also not sure how this will work in terms of producing an heir. I think Doran wants a grandson for a King, and Mace wants that too. They can't just wait to see who's first to get impregnated.

[MostlyMoody]

What about Myrcella...that would be a crazy twist and a half dont you think?

[lojzelote]

What about Myrcella...that would be a crazy twist and a half dont you think?

Myrcella will be the Rhaenys of the Lannisters. It is known.

[protar]

Also not sure how this will work in terms of producing an heir. I think Doran wants a grandson for a King, and Mace wants that too. They can't just wait to see who's first to get impregnated.

Hence the scheming that will come after this ;)

[Mladen]

1. If you disagree fine by me but at least read my other posts. Margaery is only queen via Tommen. If the Lannisters fall she is no longer Queen. If she wants to continue being Queen she needs to marry another King.

2. I think quite the opposite. Aegon is the only viable candidate for the Faith to support, every other claimant being sinners and heathens. And Aegon would be stupid to get rid of 1000's of potential allies.

3. Aegon was apparently able to take the most untakeable castle in Westeros with those 15000 men. Aegon is plenty powerful and the Lannister reign is destabilising by the hour.

4. Again, read my posts thank you. No where did I ever say that this would be a friendly threesome. I absolutely believe it will end up for the worst in the long run. However I got the impression that the current Tyrell/Martell enmity (over Willas) was mostly one sided: Oberyn is friendly with Willas, Doran wants everything to be as smooth as possible and Arianne is learning to imitate Doran's cautious nature.

1. And Margaery will stay a Queen with Tommen. Why would she wanted to share a position with Arianne when she already has the top prize. And given that High Septon will have trouble with future claimants, I doubt he`ll push too hard on both Queens.

2. Well, he is Targaryen, or he claims to be. Faith and Targaryens never worked that well. History is full of their conflicts. More than that, I doubt they`ll support any Targaryen.

3. Storm`s end was almost empty. Any force would be able to conquer it. Aegon`s 15 000 men are nothing comparing to 1o0 000 men Lannister/Tyrell aliance can muster. Even with Dorne, Aegon still has problems... You are just counting too much on Lannister being done.

4. Dorne and Reach has been conflicting for entire history, and this current conflict hasn`t been forgotten by neither QOT or Mace. Also, neither Dornish nor Tyrells would want to share Queen`s position. Aegon`ll marry Arianne, and Tyrells will stay with Tommen. Simple.

[BaseBornBastard]

The reason a Noble House would jump at the offer to marry into a Royal House is that one day the offspring of the marriage pact will become King. This way, you have a King with your blood, with ties to your House. If Aegon married both Margaery and Arianne, only one House could benefit in such a way......the House of whichever wife gives him his first son, The kind of leaves the other House somewhat high and dry....which is why I think it wouldn't work.

[TheGreatstag]

Hence the scheming that will come after this ;)

I guess Arianne could slip a bit of Moon Tea into Margaery's drinks every now and then

[protar]

1. And Margaery will stay a Queen with Tommen. Why would she wanted to share a position with Arianne when she already has the top prize. And given that High Septon will have trouble with future claimants, I doubt he`ll push too hard on both Queens.

2. Well, he is Targaryen, or he claims to be. Faith and Targaryens never worked that well. History is full of their conflicts. More than that, I doubt they`ll support any Targaryen.

3. Storm`s end was almost empty. Any force would be able to conquer it. Aegon`s 15 000 men are nothing comparing to 1o0 000 men Lannister/Tyrell aliance can muster. Even with Dorne, Aegon still has problems... You are just counting too much on Lannister being done.

4. Dorne and Reach has been conflicting for entire history, and this current conflict hasn`t been forgotten by neither QOT or Mace. Also, neither Dornish nor Tyrells would want to share Queen`s position. Aegon`ll marry Arianne, and Tyrells will stay with Tommen. Simple.

1. My theory is working on the assumption that the Lannisters will be finished soon and Tommen will be dead.

2. You're working under the assumption that they must be the best of friends. They won't. But Aegon serves to get thousands of followers and from the High Sparrow's perspective he's the only claimant to the thrown who isn't a heathen.

3. The Lannisters are done. Not only is it incredibly unlikely for the Lannisters to bounce back from Cersei's imprisonment and Kevan's death it would be poor and repetitive writing if they did and we got another thousand pages of the Lannisters in power. It's time for a change of status quo.

4. Dorne and the Reach have indeed been conflicting for thousands of years. However that conflict was ironed over. The new dislike is because of Willas which is very much a one-sided dislike from what we can gather.

Assuming Tommen dies and the Lannisters fall, which is a given imo, both Arianne, Margaery and Aegon gain a lot from such a marriage imo. Arianne solidifies the Dornish alliance, Margaery gets to keep her power after Tommen dies.

[Mladen]

1. My theory is working on the assumption that the Lannisters will be finished soon and Tommen will be dead.

2. You're working under the assumption that they must be the best of friends. They won't. But Aegon serves to get thousands of followers and from the High Sparrow's perspective he's the only claimant to the thrown who isn't a heathen.

3. The Lannisters are done. Not only is it incredibly unlikely for the Lannisters to bounce back from Cersei's imprisonment and Kevan's death it would be poor and repetitive writing if they did and we got another thousand pages of the Lannisters in power. It's time for a change of status quo.

4. Dorne and the Reach have indeed been conflicting for thousands of years. However that conflict was ironed over. The new dislike is because of Willas which is very much a one-sided dislike from what we can gather.

Assuming Tommen dies and the Lannisters fall, which is a given imo, both Arianne, Margaery and Aegon gain a lot from such a marriage imo. Arianne solidifies the Dornish alliance, Margaery gets to keep her power after Tommen dies.

1. Well, that assumption is somewhat flawed. Lannisters won`t be ended so quickly

2. They are not the best friends, but the common enemy makes strange alliances. Lannisters, Tyrells, and Faith are all against Targaryen contender, so it`s normal for them to be united. Also, don`t forget Freys and what`s left of Riverlords.

3. You want them to be done, they are not done. Yes, Kevan`s death is major setback, but there are others in the Westerlands that can make a difference.

4. Why would either Doran or Mace accept this arrangement? Aegon will crush Tyrells, and what`s left of them will have to accept anything. They won`t be in position of asking for anything else other than lives.

The best theorizing about future events regarding this is Fire Eater`s Rundown of Dance of dragons 2.0.

[protar]

I see no reason why the Lannisters will still be in power by the end of TWOW so no I don't consider the assumption that the Tyrell's will need a new King as flawed at all. It isn't. The only faction definitely against Aegon is the Lannisters. The Faith will almost certainly side with him, the Tyrells too sooner of later. Sooner if Cersei's trial goes the wrong way and Tommen is declared illegitimate, later if Aegon takes KL.

Doran will accept the arrangement because he's a cautious man and there's no point starting a rebellion against Aegon when the problem could be solved by slipping Margaery some moon tea on her wedding night.

Mace is less likely to accept. But Olenna and Margaery are likely to see the benefit of being allied so strongly with Aegon, and Mace may not even be alive at this point.

[lojzelote]

Mladen, why do you think that the Faith would be so set against a Targaryen contender?

Remember, Aegon is not their natural enemy; he's a good little follower of the Seven. He's not even a product of incest and his name is not besmirched by any sin (like the RW, for example, which smallfolk hold the Lannisters responsible for, too).

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah, I see no good reason to believe why the faith wouldn't be willing to support Aegon. There's really no one else for them to turn to. They're certainly not going to suddenly start supporting Tommen given that they're presently gunning for Cersei. They're not going to support Stannis because he serves R'hllor (And I can only imagine Stannis grinding his teeth at the thought. The throne could've very well dropped into his lap without his having to do anything, but because of his association with Melisandre he can forget it). There's simply no one else for them to support, which should make that an easy choice, since there's really nothing about Aegon which they would find objectionable.

[Lord Damian]

yes, I think Aegon might take two wives but that may depend on how strong the failt and Septon will be iin the next novel. My guess is Sansa but then again, there are rumors of her having a controversial chapter. Who knows.

[danm_999]

Olenna, the pragmatist that she is may have different ideas. We haven't seen her in a while.

Olenna doesn't want to be involved in royal dynastic struggles at all. She advises Mace against marrying Margaery to Renly. Remember her speech about riding lions, and it's difficult to get off. I don't see why she'd be hurrying to ride a dragon. In fact, she tells Sansa at one point they tried to marry her to a Targaryen, but she soon put an end to that.

So I'm failing to see how Olenna is going to love the idea of a polygamous and risky Targaryen marriage for her favourite grandaughter. Her inclination is to withdraw the Tyrells to Highgarden and rule the Reach.

And imagine if you will that Aegon manages to take KL.

The only scenario in which I can imagine this is one in which the Tyrell strength has been shattered anyway, and thus Margaery becomes a useless marriage prospect.

[SeanF]

If Aegon were to be crowned King, and got to marry both Arianne and Margaery, you'd have to say that he's won first prize in the lottery of life.

[protar]

Olenna doesn't want to be involved in royal dynastic struggles at all. She advises Mace against marrying Margaery to Renly. Remember her speech about riding lions, and it's difficult to get off. I don't see why she'd be hurrying to ride a dragon. In fact, she tells Sansa at one point they tried to marry her to a Targaryen, but she soon put an end to that.

So I'm failing to see how Olenna is going to love the idea of a polygamous and risky Targaryen marriage for her favourite grandaughter. Her inclination is to withdraw the Tyrells to Highgarden and rule the Reach.

The only scenario in which I can imagine this is one in which the Tyrell strength has been shattered anyway, and thus Margaery becomes a useless marriage prospect.

Fair enough in regards to Olenna. I can still see Mace pushing the marriage though if he believes that there's a possibility to have Arianne quietly killed off somewhere down the line, leaving Marg as the sole Queen.

You're wrong in saying that the only scenario in which Aegon could take KL is one in which the Tyrell's have no power. Cersei could lose her trial and Tommen could be declared illegitimate, in which case the Tyrells are likely to throw their lot in with Aegon immediately lest they lose all their power. Tyene may organise an inside coup with the Faith (who logically will support Aegon) and assassinate Tommen, making things much easier for Aegon etc. etc.

I really don't see why people insist the Tyrell's are sticking with the Lannisters when the Lannisters are very much a sinking ship.

[SeanF]

I can't see a good reason why Arianne and Aegon should marry.

The Martells are not convinced by Aegon, BUT when news of Quentyn death will reach them they'll leave Dany and join the Aegon Bandwagon, believing in Aegon's identity. So if they believe that Aegon is real (or they force themselves to believe that he is real) they have to support him because he is Doran's nephew. So a marriage with Arianne is a waste in terms of alliances.

Poligamy has been abandoned even by the Targs for a while, I tend to discard multiple wives for Aegon.

Unless you're like Octavian, (and Aegon isn't) the average 18 year old who receives a marriage proposal from Arianne won't be thinking too much about the political aspects.

[joluoto]

The Targaryens haven't used polygamy for ages. If they had, Aegon the Unworthy would not have had a bastard problem.

Also, Aegon VI will probably want to appear as a pious man, following the words of the Seven, to get the support of the Septons. For that he can't revive practices the Faith frowns upon such as polygamy.

[danm_999]

Fair enough in regards to Olenna. I can still see Mace pushing the marriage though if he believes that there's a possibility to have Arianne quietly killed off somewhere down the line, leaving Marg as the sole Queen.

Is there any indication Mace has a propensity for any sort of intrigue though? His own mother seems to keep him out of the loop on that stuff. Olenna is the cloak and dagger expert in the family.

You're wrong in saying that the only scenario in which Aegon could take KL is one in which the Tyrell's have no power. Cersei could lose her trial and Tommen could be declared illegitimate, in which case the Tyrells are likely to throw their lot in with Aegon immediately lest they lose all their power.

No see, I think the Tyrells will simply ignore the results of the trial in that case, and call the High Sparrow a lunatic. They're already pissed Margaery has been arrested. If push comes to shove, they'll simply ignore the result of the trial.

Tyene may organise an inside coup with the Faith (who logically will support Aegon) and assassinate Tommen, making things much easier for Aegon etc. etc.

Tyene hasn't even reached King's Landing yet, let alone organise a coup amongst the hardline Sparrows and assassinate the King.

I really don't see why people insist the Tyrell's are sticking with the Lannisters when the Lannisters are very much a sinking ship.

Because you're positing a scenario which is an extremely long way away from happening, that would reflect a 180 in behaviour for the current Tyrell leaders (specifically, aligning with the Dornish, being obssessed with royal politics no matter the cost).

Sorry, I simply don't see the scenario you base this thread on ever happening.

[The Lady Lannister]

Cersei could lose her trial and Tommen could be declared illegitimate, in which case the Tyrells are likely to throw their lot in with Aegon immediately lest they lose all their power. Tyene may organise an inside coup with the Faith (who logically will support Aegon) and assassinate Tommen, making things much easier for Aegon etc. etc.

I really don't see why people insist the Tyrell's are sticking with the Lannisters when the Lannisters are very much a sinking ship.

Why would Tommen be declared illegitimate if Cersei loses her trial? We know he is illegitimate, but it is simply not part of her trial. it is also not in the interest of the High Septon. He just wants a cowed, subdued Cersei and a loyal Crown. Tommen is everyone's ideal King, as he is sweet and looks easy to influence.

I agree though that the Tyrells would not be sticking around very long. Especially as Marge is not married to Tommen, only betrothed. They dumped Sansa in a heartbeat as well. I wish Loras and Marge were loyal to Tommen and looked after him, but it is never gonna happen. They are players.