[BOOK SPOILERS] TV Series Improvements on the Story?

[bloody_mummer]

I think overall, the actors do a great job of "bringing the characters to life" and, quite frankley, seeing the different faces alone, makes it easier to get through all the characters in the book. I dislike most of the substantive plot changes, although I appreciate and recognize the need to condense certain plot points. The biggest thing I despise is the entirely over-the-top, gratuitous sex scenes. Not like the book doesn't have them, but the Littlefinger/lesbian whores scene was just god-aweful; and the Loras/Renly scenes were unnecessary. If I want to watch porn (and I often do), I have a million websites I can click. There is something to be said about leaving some things to the imagination.

[Nezzer]

Anyone who has read the books shouldn't much like any substantive changes to the story, or the characters, because it often leads to confusion or outright contradictions - something that's dealt with at length in Elio and Linda's analyses of the show on YouTube. (Elio and Linda also founded and maintain this site.) Generally speaking, changing the script is like trying to out-write GRRM, and so far taht hasn't worked out too well for the show runners.

That having been said, they do once in a while write a scene that doesn't change the story but nicely condenses chapter after chapter of character development into a minute or two on screen, and it works. One excellent example is the scene in season 2 where we first see Tywin Lannister. He's in a hunting camp skinning a stag and having a conversation with Jaime, and it's just excellent. You know what kind of men Tywin and Jaime are at the end of that, and it changes nothing from the books.

ETA: My mistake, the scene was from season 1, episode 7

I disagree. Only fundamentalist fanboys of GRRM who think every single paragraph is golden should think that way. There are many things I don't like in the books that I'd rather see changed in the show. Neither of the versions of this story is perfect and both have many problems IMHO.

[AryaBaratheon]

Not exactly significant but the Cersei and Robert scene in S1 was one of my favorites.

Word. That conversation made their admittedly loveless marriage more real.

[AryaBaratheon]

Oh, and welcome to the forum Arya... Baratheon? Is the name inspired by shipping or secret stag crackpotting? Anyways: :grouphug:

Wishful shipping, I'll admit. Mostly due to how sexy Gendry is on the show, and the fact that Arya is among my favorite characters-whether on the page or on screen.

[AryaBaratheon]

finally i like the character of show osha but i'm getting tired of how "tonks" is interpreting being a wilding now.

Glad to know I'm not the only HP dork refugee around here.

[AryaBaratheon]

I just miss King Robert. He was always a pleasure to watch and read. And the actor on the show NAILED it.

[Mathor]

I liked Shae a lot better in the show. A lot of people have complained about how nice and sincere she is, as that implicates that if Tyrion were to kill her, then he is seen as a monster.

Though her character is a lot more vague in the book, I think the complicated and sincere relationship that she has with Tyrion could potentially make her betraying him a lot more powerful in the show.

He loves her, and in the show, she really loves him (or at least she really seems to). Yet, he chooses to play the game of thrones over her. Yes, it makes him look a little soulless at times, but I think it's at the heart of the character of Tyrion. He loves word jousting more than he could ever truly love any woman. So Shae's portrayal in the show is spot-on, as Martin has said that he much prefers the television version of Shae compared to his own Shae.

[Balerion06]

"Lancel Lannister! GODS, what a STUPID name! Who named you? A halfwit with a stutter?"

[NBAluke579]

Tywin Lannister and Cersei are much more complex and morally grey on the show than in the books. Great actors too.

They did an amazing job of making characters that were'nt that,that major in the Asoiaf series alot more interesting such as Robb Stark, Thoros of Myr,Margary Tyrell,Queen of Thorns and even badass mofo Bronn.

Jaime,Arya,The Hound,Ned,Catelyn,Tyrion,etc are much,much cooler than their book counterparts. Yes, they're awesome in the book. But the great actors they've cast to play the roles really bring the characters to life. So overall, amazing actors on the show.

The Littlefinger/Varys dynamic is epic.

The show is feels very focused and streamlines the book into one coherant narrative. I think the minor changes they do to the story feel genuine, and are'nt contrived or simply filler. The show manages to weave all of these storylines at once without a hitch.

The cinematography and splendid visuals look stunning, and are awe-inspiring. A book is a book and yet as far as adaptions go GOT is almost immaculate in portraying it on screen. Very difficult to do obviously, but they somehow manage.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I liked Shae a lot better in the show. A lot of people have complained about how nice and sincere she is, as that implicates that if Tyrion were to kill her, then he is seen as a monster.

Though her character is a lot more vague in the book, I think the complicated and sincere relationship that she has with Tyrion could potentially make her betraying him a lot more powerful in the show.

He loves her, and in the show, she really loves him (or at least she really seems to). Yet, he chooses to play the game of thrones over her. Yes, it makes him look a little soulless at times, but I think it's at the heart of the character of Tyrion. He loves word jousting more than he could ever truly love any woman. So Shae's portrayal in the show is spot-on, as Martin has said that he much prefers the television version of Shae compared to his own Shae.

Actually, I believe it is to cause the opposite effect. Shae will be much worse in her betrayal as there is actual love rather than book Shae who was always out for herself. Rather than killing her because she humiliated him (because we know he totally understood her testifying against him, it was mocking him that hurt him), he will be killing for the very deep betrayal.

There will be cheers. It will be righteous justice rather than a step to the darkness that it was in the books.

[Samsaptakas]

None.

[The Lord of Cinder]

Personally I also liked the Arya and Tywin parts in season 2. There has also been some nice added scenes (that scene where Theon is writing that letter is just beautiful!). I'm one of those who liked the change with Roose having the chainmail, made it have a bigger impact IMO. I also loved (?), I can't say loved, it isn't right. It was more chilling to have the Freys ride Robbwind through the burning camp with Arya there to see than just having him sit on a throne.

Also, I find a lot of the characters more interesting on the show than in the books, especially all of the Tyrells, Varys, Littlefinger, Cersei, Tywin and even Roose Bolton. I still think the books are better, but the show has the benefit of great actors, so I have high hopes that some of the more boring characters from books 4 and 5 (I'm looking at you, Dorne people!), will actually be really interesting in the show.

[Red Hound]

None.

Then why are you sporting an avatar from the TV Show?

[Bayard]

There were many scenes I liked in the show, but that doesn't mean they were better then the books. But it did happen, especially in season 1, where many of the changes, maybe most were for the better. I won't waste my time to name them, they are in the past, the next seasons will be done like S2&3, not like the first. So, the only things I thought were better:

Theon burning the letter to Robb

Theon beheading Rodrik Cassel

Cersei and Tommen on the Iron Throne

Shireen with Stannis and the first scene with Davos

Grey Worm

As you can see, 4/5 are simply new scenes, not really improvements. A year ago, I would have had a list of characters which I thought were better, like Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Jorah Mormont... I don't believe that anymore. It was nice to have a better Tyrion, a more human Cersei, sure. The thing is, in season 3, they kept the changes they made to the characters, and started to cut out the parts that made them who they were in the books. Cersei is not crazy at all, no paranoid tendencies, nothing. Tyrion can do no wrong in the show, except that he drinks, which is kind of cute and funny, right? so not really wrong.

[Barristan's Buddy]

I love quite a few of the added scenes with non POV characters, or at least characters who weren't POV at that point, lots of people have mentioned the Robert / Cersei scene and the interactions between Littlefinger and Varys already, I also really enjoyed the post RW chat between Roose and Walder Frey.

As for characters, I thought Francis Magee really brought Yoren, who never really leapt off the page at me in the novels, to life, the same applies to Patrick Malahide's Balon Greyjoy and as much as I love book Tywin, Charles Dance has made show Tywin into probably for me the most consistently watchable character on TV.

[Lord Varys]

I don't think that show Tywin has any consistency whatsoever. Especially not when he tries to behave like book Tywin. The whole conversation about Casterly Rock in the beginning of season 3 is completely out of character for show Tywin. He would not treat his whitewashed and rather good-looking son like that. Even in the books, Tywin only reacted this way because Tyrion had threatened Tommen's life to protect a whore from Cersei. That's what enraged Tywin at this point, I don't see why grandfatherly Charles Dance should treat his son this bad. Show Tywin seems to be a pragmatic and reasonable man whereas book Tywin is actually very irrational.

And later on, Tywin and Tyrion seem to be best friends again, they not only discuss Tywin's involvement in the Red Wedding but Tywin actually lowers his guard and talks to Tyrion why he has let him live. Book Tyrion would never have dared to ask his father about such a thing, nor would Tywin have confided in Tyrion in such a personal matter.

[kephv]

Even in the books, Tywin only reacted this way because Tyrion had threatened Tommen's life to protect a whore from Cersei. That's what enraged Tywin at this point, I don't see why grandfatherly Charles Dance should treat his son this bad.

I remember the Unsullied commenting on this after the first episode. Many just didn't understand his sudden change.

[MachoGrande]

None.

Come on, aren't you being a bit irrational now?

I myself onliy like at most a third of the changes and consider very, very few of them actual "improvements". But I don't see how you can deny that Tyrion "confessing his crimes" in Season 1 was a better scene than in the books. The things Tyrions says in the books ("I talked bad about the ladies" - really?) are actually quite lame compared to his hilarious confessions in the show.

Same can be said about Yoren's story about his brother and The Jaime/Tywin scene. I bet if the things were reversed and Martin had included these scenes in the books but D&D had left them out, everyone would be raging at the show for cutting them.

[Weeping Sore]

Agree with Pinkie Baelish's list up-thread:

Tywin/Arya(I would have loved to see Weasel Soup or Roose/Arya, but the Tywin/Arya scenes made for good TV)

Theon burning the letter to Robb

Theon beheading Rodrik Cassel

Dragon theft(good idea in theory, although the execution was botched)

Cersei and Theon being made into more sympathetic characters

Cersei and Tommen on the Iron Throne

Stannis leading the charge at the Blackwater

Cersei/Robert

Margaery playing Joffrey like a harp

I would add:

Less Cat.

Better Greyjoys- I like Yara over Asha, and Alfie killed it in S2.

Tywin/Arya- the best thing about these scenes is it made the Blackwater outcome not a complete downer. Building a connection with Tywin made his triumph somewhat satisfying.

[Darryk]

A few examples I can think of:

Renly's motivations for stating a claim to the throne were better established in the show.

Theon displayed more inner turmoil about betraying Robb in the show, and there was a great scene between him, Yara and Balon that wasn't in the book.

Gendry taking the place of Edric Storm was a great change.

Also, there was some great dialogue between Tyrion and Jon Snow that wasn't in the book. I like that Tyrion was the one to put some sense in Jon's head regarding his privileged upbringing, rather then the smith.