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The Last Hero tale by Old Nan foreshadows the deaths of ...


Lost Melnibonean

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Arya X, Clash

Why seven adults and two pups? That specificity suggests some foreshadowing or symbolism. During the tale, we learn that three adult Starks were killed before Game: Rickard, Brandon & Lyanna. The Benjen is presumed dead and the Ned loses his head. Later we see Robb switch heads with Grey Wind and Catelyn floating in the river before Beric raises her from the dead. That's nine dead adult Starks.

So which two Stark pups will die? We can be pretty sure one will be Arya...

Arya I, Game

But which will be the other? Bran seems pretty safe as he's set to become with a tree. That leaves Sansa and Rickon. Please place your bets...

Oooooh noooo I love the theory and you're really smart for unraveling this part of Marin's intricate web but why did you have to break my heart? At least I will see it coming. Seriously though you guys are geniuses.
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If Sam dies as anything less than a total hero then I will be pissed off

Sam is the worst. Why oh why do people love him so? I've seen so many posts where people contemplate all the kill shots he will land with his bow. The best theory I've heard is that The Slayer will put an arrow through Eurons good eye.

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Sam is the worst. Why oh why do people love him so? I've seen so many posts where people contemplate all the kill shots he will land with his bow. The best theory I've heard is that The Slayer will put an arrow through Eurons good eye.

I can't speak for others but I love Sam because he almost feels like a modern person thrown into this medieval world. He's a self professed coward who actually shows lots of courage in his own way. Whenever it counts Sam actually does the courageous thing.

GRRM has even said (IIRC) that while he would prefer to think that Tyrion is the closest character to himself that actually Sam is.

Now I don't know about the bow shots to Euron's eye (that seems a little ridiculous to me) but killing the other, saving Gilly from wight Small Paul, punching out Daeron, scheming to make Jon lord commander seems like enough to make me love Sam. You're entitled to your opinion, but really, "the worst"? I'll give you "not the best" (that's Theon!) but "the worst" - No way!

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I can't speak for others but I love Sam because he almost feels like a modern person thrown into this medieval world. He's a self professed coward who actually shows lots of courage in his own way. Whenever it counts Sam actually does the courageous thing.

GRRM has even said (IIRC) that while he would prefer to think that Tyrion is the closest character to himself that actually Sam is.

Now I don't know about the bow shots to Euron's eye (that seems a little ridiculous to me) but killing the other, saving Gilly from wight Small Paul, punching out Daeron, scheming to make Jon lord commander seems like enough to make me love Sam. You're entitled to your opinion, but really, "the worst"? I'll give you "not the best" (that's Theon!) but "the worst" - No way!

We agree that Theon is the best. As for a pov that spans more than one book I'd say Sam is at the bottom of pov characters.
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Oooooh noooo I love the theory and you're really smart for unraveling this part of Marin's intricate web but why did you have to break my heart? At least I will see it coming. Seriously though you guys are geniuses.

I'm not the first reader to notice the nine dead wolves and nine dead Starks.
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We agree that Theon is the best. As for a pov that spans more than one book I'd say Sam is at the bottom of pov characters.

It's tough for me to pick a "bottom" POV. They're all good and we haven't seen how many of them pay off yet so it's hard to judge. Sam was #8 on my list on this thread. I'm curious to see your ranking. Care to post there?

{I will admit that Sam's POV is the worst POV for a male character that starts with "S".)

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Hodor will die an honorable death, if he dies at all.

But Rickon won't die because he has yet to sit the throne. Rickon will be king.

"Rickon will be king." How unsuitable an ending that would be for a character who has made minimal appearances in the novels, and who has had such a minimal effect on the plot. That would be as disappointing as the re-appearance of the dead Aegon. Seriously? Five novels filled with red herrings and misleading prophecies will give us an ending like that? I would have to burn all of the books, as well as my DVD's.

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"Rickon will be king." How unsuitable an ending that would be for a character who has made minimal appearances in the novels, and who has had such a minimal effect on the plot. That would be as disappointing as the re-appearance of the dead Aegon. Seriously? Five novels filled with red herrings and misleading prophecies will give us an ending like that? I would have to burn all of the books, as well as my DVD's.

Burning DVDs is bad for the environment. And seriously, just give them all away. Burning books is associated with very bad things in this world.

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On the potential for Rickon to die in an anticlimactic shaggydog manner...

Surely the gods did not bring me safe through flre and sea only to kill me with a flux.

Davos II, Storm

I wonder if there is still sickness at Widow's Watch?

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"Rickon will be king." How unsuitable an ending that would be for a character who has made minimal appearances in the novels, and who has had such a minimal effect on the plot. That would be as disappointing as the re-appearance of the dead Aegon. Seriously? Five novels filled with red herrings and misleading prophecies will give us an ending like that? I would have to burn all of the books, as well as my DVD's.

I assume Lady Olenna meant King in the North? (Or maybe not.) How can he have had an effect? He's 3/4 years old! Give him a chance. I am a subscriber to the Rickon will be king or lord theory, so I really hope he doesn't die. He's not a POV character, which means he may very well end up a king (at least briefly) because none of the kings have POV chapters. Also, all of Ned's children have turned out to be special in some way, so watch this space.

I also hope Meera, Hodor and Osha don't die (Jojen I think is inevitable, if he's not already dead). Bran could well be like the Last Hero but that doesn't mean the story has to be exactly the same.

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  • 3 months later...

The tales of heroes are are meant to be archetypes that apply to current characters. Bran is the last hero seeking out the children. Jon is the prince that was promised (if R+L=J then he is descended from the like of Aerys and Rhaella) and Dany is Azor Ahai Reborn and her flaming sword is her dragons.


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The Last Hero will return to the Gods what the First Hero stole. Which is just a kinder way of saying that he'll slat those monsters, bring back amazing treasures, and rescue beautiful maiden goddesses. Which is just a kinder way of saying he shall brutally murder them all, loot their Realm and take their women by force.



(There will be a nerd out there who will understand the meaning behind what might read as gibberish to you)


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  • 1 month later...

Just a thought. Arya meets a sword (Syrio Forel), a dog (the Hound) , and if I haven't missed someone she had 12 people on her list. Which in a way keep her company. She had a horse too.

Now I don't believe it myself really. But I just want to put out that you can find these clues everywhere if you want to find them. That doesn't necessarilly make them true.

It seems like anyone can be anyone with any motive.

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Just a thought. Arya meets a sword (Syrio Forel), a dog (the Hound) , and if I haven't missed someone she had 12 people on her list. Which in a way keep her company. She had a horse too.

Now I don't believe it myself really. But I just want to put out that you can find these clues everywhere if you want to find them. That doesn't necessarilly make them true.

It seems like anyone can be anyone with any motive.

That's pretty good.
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  • 2 months later...

OK, this is a strrrrretchhh... Lord Manderly is trying to recover a prince--Prince Rickon, who just might be a shaggydog in this tale, one who will die uneventfully after high expectations. Well, another Lord Manderly was expecting a princess in the time of Jaehaerys, Princess Viserra to whom he was betrothed, but she died by mishap before arriving in White Harbor for the wedding...

A wild, high-spirited maid, she fell from a horse while racing drunkenly through the streets of King's Landing.

Jaehaerys I, TWOIAF
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Very interesting, lots of good thoughts.

However, I don't believe this is necessarily a world in which events repeat themselves exactly the same way over and over again.

I think there are variations on similar themes across time, but things are not always bound to come out a certain way.

That said, I think if there is another Last Hero, the LH will need to suffer, lose a great deal, and in the end he or she will need to proceed alone. This person cannot give up, even if he or she loses everything and everyone.

So, you could be right, but I am not ready to assume it is a given. Somehow, I do think the dragons are going to matter, too, and there were no dragons in the old story.

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