Nictarion Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 FYI guys, true love isn't an excuse for running off with someone's daughter knowing it could potentially screw your family.Yeah, it works both ways though. Lyanna, should be held equally accountable, assuming they eloped, and she wasn't kidnapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 No. What was there in the books that would make you think Ned hated the Targaryens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 so you're saying that Rhaegar letting it all fall on Rickard would have been a good move? I disagree. He should take responsibility for his actions.really? You facepalmed? you did a horrible job getting your point across. You clearly say that Rhaegar hid because of how Brandon would react and then say that he would need a crystal ball to predict that Brandon would go to KL looking for him when he was actually hiding somewhere else.'Predicting that someone would come to challenge him when he is not there'How could you expect me to read another meaning into that?If you have a problem understanding what I meant, ask for rephrasing, as easy as. I have a similar problem with you, because you seem to treat "come looking" and "challenge" as if they were synonyms, which they are not.Brandon was a known hothead, alright. It was highly likely that he would confront Rhaegar and that the confrontation might end up with violence. So far we are reading each other, right?So, the sensible thing to do would be to avoid confrontation, not to give Brandon a chance to do something violently stupid. No Rhaegar, no target for violence. Alright?Next, Brandon comes to the Red Keep, because that's the sensible place where to look for Rhaegar. That's fine by me.Then, no Rhaegar in the Red Keep, but Brandon still yells for him to come out and die. THIS is the part which I say that could not be predicted. Now, what exactly is your issue here, so that we don't argue each something else?We will agree to disagree about his responsibilities.Because Robert as her betrothed was emotionally and politically involved. Robert was also a great military commander and could become a threat to the throne. Not to mention they were cousins and it is the decent thing to do.See theguyfromthevale's response.FYI guys, true love isn't an excuse for running off with someone's daughter knowing it could potentially screw your family.Knowing what and how, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 FYI guys, true love isn't an excuse for running off with someone's daughter knowing it could potentially screw your family.I don't think Rhaegar knew how much running off with a girl could screw his family. I doubt he knew that Kidnapping a girl would help a chain of events that led to his innocent wife and children murdered, his father murdered by his own Kingsguard, his family dynasty dethroned and his siblings running and begging for their lives for over 15yrs. Rhaegar could not predict that hell for his family when he kidnapped a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Strangely, Ned does not hate the Targaryens, not even Aerys. Ned does, however, seem to hate the Lannisters (Tywin and Jaime). The text does not supply any examples of Ned hating the Targs.I think Neds lack of hate for the Targs is a plot device by GRRM. GRRM wants the readers to have a somewhat favorable impression of the Targaryens (not Aerys). Starks are probably everyone's favorite family in agot, if Ned hates the Targs, so will most of the readers.it probably has more to do with the Targs being dead than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barty Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ned probably hated Aerys and wouldn't have hesitated to kill Rhaegar if both of them had met on the Trident but he is not the type to hate an entire family(including women and children) just because of the actions of a couple of members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Aerys the Just Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Strangely, Ned does not hate the Targaryens, not even Aerys. Ned does, however, seem to hate the Lannisters (Tywin and Jaime). The text does not supply any examples of Ned hating the Targs.I think Neds lack of hate for the Targs is a plot device by GRRM. GRRM wants the readers to have a somewhat favorable impression of the Targaryens (not Aerys). Starks are probably everyone's favorite family in agot, if Ned hates the Targs, so will most of the readers. I don't know about it necessarily being just a plot device.Ned may have known more about certain causes leading up to the disaster at the Red Keep than the readers do, in addition to the bit about Lyanna probably loving Rhaegar.If Rickard Stark was indeed scheming against the Targaryen regime before the Rebellion, which is being increasingly hinted at in the series, that might have taken some of the hatred for Aerys' actions away from Ned, even though he naturally still disliked the man for what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Robert was so emotionally involved in Lyanna he preferred drinking Ser Lonmouth under the table to spending time with Lyanna during the Tourney at Harrenhal, so struck by her being kidnapped by Rhaegar that he visited the Peach in Stoney Sept. Robert also wasn't known as a battle commander at all at this time; Robert's first battle came with Gulltown... after the start of the Rebellion.She was STILL Robert's betrothed and he had an emotional attachment to her. I don't think Robert truly loved Lyanna either, but he had met her and knew he was going to marry her. Politically if not emotionally he would be furious.Robert's first battle may have been during the Rebellion, though we cannot be sure of this, but he had a reputation and this was why Aerys was keen in wanting him dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 And as Ygrain said before, that was probably best managed through Lord Rickard Stark. And we still do not know if Rhaegar and Rickard were in contact or not. They might well not have been, but the Stark (pun fully intended) silence towards Lyanna's abduction from Rickard indicates he might well have had a hunch...Where did you get that information from? I have seen no hint in the text telling us why Aerys wanted Ned's and Robert's heads, apart from rampant paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Warning: require_once() [function.require-once]: Unable to allocate memory for pool. in /home/sites/westeros.org/forum_web/ironthrone/sources/base/core.php on line 1200Warning: include() [function.include]: Unable to allocate memory for pool. in /home/sites/westeros.org/forum_web/ironthrone/sources/classes/class_localization.php on line 835And as Ygrain said before, that was probably best managed through Lord Rickard Stark. And we still do not know if Rhaegar and Rickard were in contact or not. They might well not have been, but the Stark (pun fully intended) silence towards Lyanna's abduction from Rickard indicates he might well have had a hunch...Rhaegar and Robert were family. Rhaegar was the one doing the abducting so it would fall on him to apologise. Most likely Robert would have challenged him to a duel and that would have been the end of that.Where did you get that information from? I have seen no hint in the text telling us why Aerys wanted Ned's and Robert's heads, apart from rampant paranoia.Martin mentions the reasons why Aerys wanted Ned's and Robert's heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Warning: require_once() [function.require-once]: Unable to allocate memory for pool. in /home/sites/westeros.org/forum_web/ironthrone/sources/base/core.php on line 1200Warning: include() [function.include]: Unable to allocate memory for pool. in /home/sites/westeros.org/forum_web/ironthrone/sources/classes/class_localization.php on line 835Rhaegar and Robert were family. Rhaegar was the one doing the abducting so it would fall on him to apologise. Most likely Robert would have challenged him to a duel and that would have been the end of that.Martin mentions the reasons why Aerys wanted Ned's and Robert's heads.Quote please. From an unbiased source preferably. Jaime would be a good starting point, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Quote please. From an unbiased source preferably. Jaime would be a good starting point, for example.I will find it, but it will probably be a lot later on today or tomorrow. I will post it here and edit the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Eh, just post it here. I'm following the thread, but I can't promise I'll repeatedly check back for over 24 hours if some post way before has been edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarniwoop Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The spawn of Rhaegar ripped his baby sister in half, so I think he did hate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The spawn of Rhaegar ripped his baby sister in half, so I think he did hate them.But again, there is textual evidence of thinking of Rhaegar in positive terms, but not in negative ones... strange, if what you say is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The spawn of Rhaegar ripped his baby sister in half, so I think he did hate them. :shocked: Uh, this isn't an Edward Lee book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrik Storm Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I got the feeling he believed in not judging children by what their parents did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The spawn of Rhaegar ripped his baby sister in half, so I think he did hate them.LOL This made me laughBut no, hating a baby for the birth is just ridiculousit's not like he was thinking "yeah! I'm gonna get out of this womb and kill my mother!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I don't know if it was intentional, but I was watching the first episodes of the first season of GOT and you notice some really awkward expression on Ned's face when Robert is saying "what Rhaegar Targ did to your sister!" because Ned didn't want to talk about killing DanyThe expression was like "errrr no" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 LOL This made me laughBut no, hating a baby for the birth is just ridiculousit's not like he was thinking "yeah! I'm gonna get out of this womb and kill my mother!"quick, somebody tell Cersei! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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