R+L=J v.53

[Alia of the knife]

On Jon and Dany.

The themes surely evoke the tragedy of Oedipus.

Given that Dany is Rhaegars sister, and is referred to as "Mother," and an Aunt is sometimes a surrogate mother as was in my case, that evocation of Sophecle's drama is very strong,

But, as I said, I could take that more than Jon and Arya which carries with it it's own Oedipal overtones, at least in spirit.

It's also likely that Arya herself could follow up that analogy with the personification of Antigone, as another poster, AryaNym in the aSoIaF animals project suggested.

Edit: I also find it interesting in the shows photo ops. that they always show Kit and Emelia posed almost as if in a "family portrait" style with the IT in the back ground. They do show the Lannisters too on occasion, but more often it's them, Jon and Dany.

[Nami]

Seems to be an awful lot of hints that they will be though.

to me those hints don't imply anything romantic, just that they're gonna meet and the revelation of R+L=J to him

since they are relatives, maybe those hints imply that too

[Ghost's Shadow]

Was it The Black Hawk who was going to offer all the Jon and Dany will end up together text proofs? Still waiting for them, though not really.

[UVA]

Lol, I'm probably the only female alive that can't stand Brad Pitt.

I hope they look to unknown Actors for casting. It will be difficult to capture both the essence of fey unworldliness, and the type of masculinity that could actually go toe-to-toe for hours on the Trident, almost killing Robert Berantheon .

Beautifully handsome is what I have in my mind's eye for Rheagar. While he's probably too old and too beefed up now but a young Charlie Hunnam as Rhaegar and here looks just what I think the Rhae man should look like.

Was it The Black Hawk who was going to offer all the Jon and Dany will end up together text proofs? Still waiting for them, though not really.

Yea, I'm waiting for TBH's contribution but until then this post #130 begins a good discussion on the issue of Jon+Dany.

[Ygrain]

Lol, I'm probably the only female alive that can't stand Brad Pitt.

That makes two of us :-)

to me those hints don't imply anything romantic, just that they're gonna meet and the revelation of R+L=J to him

since they are relatives, maybe those hints imply that too

That prophecy from HotU where Dany is called "bride of three" and Jon (blule flower in the wall of ice) is lumped with Dany riding Silver (i.e. hint at Drogo) and the corpse with grey smiling lips (grey-joy, i.e. perhaps Victaryon), makes me rather worried.

[yolkboy]

That prophecy from HotU where Dany is called "bride of three" and Jon (blule flower in the wall of ice) is lumped with Dany riding Silver (i.e. hint at Drogo) and the corpse with grey smiling lips (grey-joy, i.e. perhaps Victaryon), makes me rather worried.

I wouldn't worry yourself about that one too much. Hizdahr would make bride of four, by that logic.

[Ygrain]

I wouldn't worry yourself about that one too much. Hizdahr would make bride of four, by that logic.

Not if only those she develops some feelings for count.

- If she falls for Victaryon, I'll be pretty annoyed :ack:

[Ghost's Shadow]

Why would Jon go where a Greyjoy has gone already?

He can do much better than that.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Oops- DP

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Lol, I'm probably the only female alive that can't stand Brad Pitt.

Lol- You and Jennifer Aniston ;)

ftr- I love him because he's a good dad and a decent human being, not for his looks. Really! No laughing :D

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Was it The Black Hawk who was going to offer all the Jon and Dany will end up together text proofs? Still waiting for them, though not really.

Yes that was his latest thread right? Since I'm not convinced TBH has actually read the text, I'm not holding my breath for the proofs ;)

[Alia of the knife]

Beautifully handsome is what I have in my mind's eye for Rheagar. While he's probably too old and too beefed up now but a young Charlie Hunnam as Rhaegar and here looks just what I think the Rhae man should look like.

Yea, I'm waiting for TBH's contribution but until then this post #130 begins a good discussion on the issue of Jon+Dany.

Though, your right and he is likely too old, he fits a better template for Rhaegar than anyone else I've seen, and that includes Orlando Bloom. :ack:

Lol- You and Jennifer Aniston ;)

ftr- I love him because he's a good dad and a decent human being, not for his looks. Really! No laughing :D

True on his personal assets, but there is something to him that smacks a little too much of Anne Rice's "Louis." :P

[UVA]

Though, your right and he is likely too old, he fits a better template for Rhaegar than anyone else I've seen, and that includes Orlando Bloom. :ack:

Bloom and Eva Green (who is just too creepy for me) have never conjured up R&L, but they have dominated the R&L tumblrs. Blech.

Reading the WSJ Magazine yesterday I came across this fashion spread This obviously is Lyanna-as-fashion-model, but this girl, or at least the way in which she was styled, has the wild Northern beauty 'look'. Scroll through all of the images.

[Jon Icefyre]

Developing on this a bit: it would actually be not just a subversion of the trope but a total reversal. The hidden heir gets the kingdom and the girl because of who he is - in our case, being who he is would prevent Jon from getting the girl. The hidden heir is always happy to find out who he is, for Jon it would become a curse far worse than being a motherless bastard.

Damn, now I wish that he never finds out... I'm getting this gut feeling that no good will come out of R+L.

Ya I totally see where your coming from, but for me it depends on what ppl value to be more important for Jon. If your looking it at in terms of will Jon sit on the IT and "get the girl" then ya it could possibly end gloomy. But if you're looking at it in terms of Rhaegar's hopes for the prophecy, and Jon fulfilling his destiny and completing the prophecy to lead the ppl of Westeros against the Others in the second darkness/battle for dawn, then if Jon succeeds in that fight, things like being King of Westeros, and "getting the girl" seem somewhat trivial when your looking at the grand scheme of his accomplishments. Which is that Jon ultimately did what he was always suppose to do and defeated the Other which is what was most important.

Also in terms of Jon "getting the girl", I don't really think there would be any huge heartbreaking revelation or subversion of the trope for GRRM personally and his style of writing that would stand out that strongly to the reader because GRRM has literally been doing that sort of stuff since day 1. Aemon the Dragonknight, Daemon Blackfyre, Rhaella, Bonifer Hasty, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei, Robert Baratheron, Daemon Sand, Arys Oakheart, Littlefinger, Lysa Tully, Lady Dustin, Dany with Drogo and Daario, Ser Barristian, Ser Jorah, Loras and Renly, Jon and Ygritte, Robb Stark, I mean the list goes on and on.

GRRM has given us example after example of ppl not ending up with the girl/guy and even when they do end up with them, it usually ends tragic anyway, so for it to happen again to Jon when it's already happened to Jon once before with Ygritte wouldn't really be anything special IMO. In fact GRRM might see that sort of doomed relationship to be his own writing style's version of a cliche at this point....I could actually see GRRM contradicting himself and giving Jon a completely normal and stable relationship for once. But then again I'm a firm believer that if Jon ends up with the girl it will be either Val or Asha Greyjoy......

[WhiteOwl18]

Ya I totally see where your coming from, but for me it depends on what ppl value to be more important for Jon. If your looking it at in terms of will Jon sit on the IT and "get the girl" then ya it could possibly end gloomy. But if you're looking at it in terms of Rhaegar's hopes for the prophecy, and Jon fulfilling his destiny and completing the prophecy to lead the ppl of Westeros against the Others in the second darkness/battle for dawn, then if Jon succeeds in that fight, things like being King of Westeros, and "getting the girl" seem somewhat trivial when your looking at the grand scheme of his accomplishments, which is that Jon ultimately did what he was always suppose to do and defeated the Other which is what was most important.

Also in terms of Jon "getting the girl", I don't really think there would be any huge heartbreaking revelation or subversion of the trope for GRRM personally and his style of writing that would stand out to the reader because GRRM has literally been doing that sort of stuff since day. Aemon the Dragonknight, Daemon Blackfyre, Rhaella, Bonifer Hasty, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei, Robert Baratheron, Daemon Sand, Littlefinger, Lysa Tully, Lady Dustin, Dany, Ser Barristian, Ser Jorah, Loras and Renly, Jon and Ygritte, Robb Stark, I mean the list goes on and on.

GRRM has given us example after example of ppl not ending up with the girl/guy and even when they do it usually ends tragic anyway, so for it to happen again to Jon when it's already happened to Jon once already with Ygritte wouldn't really be anything special IMO. In fact GRRM might see that sort of doomed relationship to be his own writing style's version of a cliche at this point....I could actually see GRRM contradicting himself and giving Jon a completely normal and stable relationship for once. But then again I'm a firm believer that if Jon ends up with the girl it will be either Val or Asha Greyjoy......

:agree:

[sillent]

Hmm.. So maybe I'm completely wrong in this but what if:

Ned & Ashara fell in love and hooked up at Harrenhal. She has Edric Dayne.

Rhaegar & Lyanna elope after Harrenhal, and they have Jon.

TOJ happens and Ned promises to keep Jon safe. He returns to Starfall to return Dawn, and either only then, or already knew of Edric. He uses the truth of what happened with Ashara to conjure up Jon as his own, and takes him home to raise as his bastard son. Wylla & Ashara are in on this, and Ashara goes along for her love for Ned. She feigns her death and goes into hiding so no one can come looking for answers, especially since Edric can't be hers if Jon is as well -- or would be unlikely to have such different twins and to separate them at birth.

Maybe I need to do more research to check if this could add up, but figured this has probably been discussed here before plenty of times since it caters to R+L=J. Things that made me believe this were:

A ) Don't know who Edric's parents are -- and he's the same age as Jon, and was milkbrothers with him not to mention him knowing an awful lot about Ned+Ashara and the fact people call him Ned!

B ) Ashara's body was never recovered, and she apparently gave birth to a stillborn. This lets her commit suicide over grief, though she could very well have had a kid and gone into hiding.

C ) Ashara + Ned both had a thing for each other, If Ned did have a thing with her, this would have taken place before Catelyn entered the picture for him. (not sure if timeline adds up)

D ) Alfie Allen said something about the whole Jon thing being a very Star Wars Luke & Leia kind of a thing. (or did he say smth like baby swap?).

[WhiteOwl18]

Hmm.. So maybe I'm completely wrong in this but what if:

Ned & Ashara fell in love and hooked up at Harrenhal. She has Edric Dayne.

Rhaegar & Lyanna elope after Harrenhal, and they have Jon.

TOJ happens and Ned promises to keep Jon safe. He returns to Starfall to return Dawn, and either only then, or already knew of Edric. He uses the truth of what happened with Ashara to conjure up Jon as his own, and takes him home to raise as his bastard son. Wylla & Ashara are in on this, and Ashara goes along for her love for Ned. She feigns her death and goes into hiding so no one can come looking for answers, especially since Edric can't be hers if Jon is as well -- or would be unlikely to have such different twins and to separate them at birth.

Maybe I need to do more research to check if this could add up, but figured this has probably been discussed here before plenty of times since it caters to R+L=J. Things that made me believe this were:

A ) Don't know who Edric's parents are -- and he's the same age as Jon, and was milkbrothers with him not to mention him knowing an awful lot about Ned+Ashara and the fact people call him Ned!

B ) Ashara's body was never recovered, and she apparently gave birth to a stillborn. This lets her commit suicide over grief, though she could very well have had a kid and gone into hiding.

C ) Ashara + Ned both had a thing for each other, If Ned did have a thing with her, this would have taken place before Catelyn entered the picture for him. (not sure if timeline adds up)

D ) Alfie Allen said something about the whole Jon thing being a very Star Wars Luke & Leia kind of a thing. (or did he say smth like baby swap?).

Edric is 12 years old. He's too young for that.

[Ygrain]

Hmm.. So maybe I'm completely wrong in this but what if:

Ned & Ashara fell in love and hooked up at Harrenhal. She has Edric Dayne.

Rhaegar & Lyanna elope after Harrenhal, and they have Jon.

TOJ happens and Ned promises to keep Jon safe. He returns to Starfall to return Dawn, and either only then, or already knew of Edric. He uses the truth of what happened with Ashara to conjure up Jon as his own, and takes him home to raise as his bastard son. Wylla & Ashara are in on this, and Ashara goes along for her love for Ned. She feigns her death and goes into hiding so no one can come looking for answers, especially since Edric can't be hers if Jon is as well -- or would be unlikely to have such different twins and to separate them at birth.

Maybe I need to do more research to check if this could add up, but figured this has probably been discussed here before plenty of times since it caters to R+L=J. Things that made me believe this were:

A ) Don't know who Edric's parents are -- and he's the same age as Jon, and was milkbrothers with him not to mention him knowing an awful lot about Ned+Ashara and the fact people call him Ned!

B ) Ashara's body was never recovered, and she apparently gave birth to a stillborn. This lets her commit suicide over grief, though she could very well have had a kid and gone into hiding.

C ) Ashara + Ned both had a thing for each other, If Ned did have a thing with her, this would have taken place before Catelyn entered the picture for him. (not sure if timeline adds up)

D ) Alfie Allen said something about the whole Jon thing being a very Star Wars Luke & Leia kind of a thing. (or did he say smth like baby swap?).

Edric Dayne is several years younger than Jon. If he was conceived at Harrenhall, he would have been almost two years older than Jon. "Milk brothers" doesn't mean that they were nursed at the same time but that they were nursed by the same woman, exactly as "brothers" mean that they were born of the same woman, not at the same time.

Alfie Allen said nothing about Luke and Leia. He did mention some SW situation, which is most probably Luke being raised by his uncle in ignorance of who his parents truly were or that his father plays the role of villain in the story.

[Jory Cassel]

Edric is 12 years old. He's too young for that.

This, the fact that they were milk brothers allows no conclusion concerning Jon's age, Edric assumes that Wylla, who was his wetnurse, was also Jon's mother.

edit: too slow^^

[Ghost's Shadow]

Courtesy of Ragnarok in the JS reread thread:

From Craster:

“Who’s this one now?” Craster said before Jon could go. “He has the look of a Stark.”

“My steward and squire, Jon Snow.”

“A bastard, is it?” Craster looked Jon up and down. “Man wants to bed a woman, seems like he ought to take her to wife. That’s what I do.”

A possible clue, right? Rhaegar had too much family history with bastards not to marry Lyanna first.

Edit: Naturally I came here as soon as I was the quote above, but didn't see that Fire Eater had already basically commented the same thing. :lol: <3