Jon Icefyre Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 No, I know what you meant, and I actually enjoyed him as Achilles, but it was the actor who played his cousin that caught my eye.........Ya Garret Hedlund is another good Rhaegar, but unfortunately he's too big of a name for HBO to wrap up. :bang:http://memetrics.fil...ett-hedlund.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yes I know that, and I'm well schooled in the info of the books but in the tv series Cersei is the one to say it to Tyrion which obviously gets GRRM's same message of the madness incest is known to produce across to the viewers... Also what do you mean "give him a choice"? You mean the same way King Stannis tried to legitimize Jon and make him Lord of Winterfell and yet Jon still decided that he was going to refuse the offer even if he wouldn't have been voted LC of the NW? Haha just because Dany will want him to do something doesn't mean Jon will do it, the guy does have a mind and will of his own....I have only seen a couple of clips on You Tube of the HBO series: I rarely watch TV. So I did not know about the substitution of Cersei for Ser Barristan. BTW, I disagree that this was a good decision on the part of the show runners. It is Dany that needs to know. You will perhaps be pleased to know that they have unpleasant things to say about "book purists" in a recent interview in Mother Jones. As for Jon, when the offer that cannot be refused is made by a beautiful young woman standing next to a large black dragon who may roar once or twice to emphasize the message, even Jon may be intimidated enough and attracted enough not to refuse. Besides, there will be the possibility of more troops to fight the War for the Dawn, plus a dragon assuming that Rhaegal or Viserion accepts him as its rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 As for Jon, when the offer that cannot be refused is made by a beautiful young woman standing next to a large black dragon who may roar once or twice to emphasize the message, even Jon may be intimidated enough and attracted enough not to refuse. Besides, there will be the possibility of more troops to fight the War for the Dawn, plus a dragon assuming that Rhaegal or Viserion accepts him as its rider.Unless of course Jon uses his warging ability to control any of the three dragons of his choosing which would then give him the upper hand over Dany...Dany's not about to force Jon's hand whatever choice he makes will be his own....Btw I don't really see how you can possibly try to argue that GRRM hasn't made the direct relationship between madness and incest crystal clear..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Btw I don't really see how you can possibly try to argue that GRRM hasn't made the direct relationship between madness and incest crystal clear.....The Stark half of Jon's parentage may be sufficient to forestall that: there does not seem to have been a problem for the children of Daeron II, tho' two of Maekar's children on the other hand do seem to have had a screw loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Also whether dragons, the which are not mammals, can be warged is a open question, IMHO. It may be that all Jon gets out of that is a greater propensity to be accepted by Rhaegal or Viserion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Lives Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 And if the Maesters were privy to this knowledge, then what part did they play in perhaps keeping apart, or discouraging any marriages between the Starks and Tarygaryens prior to the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna?The Targaryens didn't always have siblings to marry, and they didn't always marry the Martells. They chose from a few Houses lower in rank than the Starks.It would be interesting to know all the spouses that Eggs children married and what Houses they came from if they all married for love, and that would also include any of his daughters who might marry a High Lord as well.Going with the idea that Martin may be referencing the historical tensions between religion and the Age of Reason, then there is a good chance the Citadel managed to interfere if there were any behind-the-scenes negotiations between Rickard and Rhaegar, or jettisoned any message that Lyanna might have sent back to Winterfell to her Father, allowing the Rebellion to fester after Brandons death.I don't think the Maesters remember or never fully understood or simply stayed on the sidelines. Maybe there are books and scrolls at the citadel that addresses this that picks up with the whole Sam at the Citadel storyline. It would help clarify why the Faceless Men are interested in the Citadel as well. Additionally, there is the entire subplot surrounding the High Septon and the reinstitution of their armed forces. The death of Kevan Lannister all but solidified the Septons rise as a major player in the story.It makes sense to me that Martin would follow and expound upon the historic storyline of the age of reason. He did the same with the War of the Roses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Also whether dragons, the which are not mammals, can be warged is a open question, IMHO. It may be that all Jon gets out of that is a greater propensity to be accepted by Rhaegal or Viserion.Well odds are either Jon or Bran will be able to control the dragons if they come within contact of them using their supernatural abilities. Jon from warging and if that doesn't work then Bran who can not only Warg but is also a Greenseer who can pretty much get into anything will most likely be up for the task, so I don't really see dragons to be an impossible obstacle for him. Either scenario would put Jon in favor over Dany. The point is, it's quite a stretch to assume Jon will be put in any sort of situation where Dany will have full control over him to the point where she forces him to claim the Iron Throne or enter into an intimate relationship with her.... As for the dragon intimidation, I don't think Jon will let the idea of Dany threatening his life sway his hand, this is the same guy that once tried to flee the wall to fight for the 'NORTH' in the war of the five kings knowing full well that the NW could and would want his head for it. If it comes down to fighting the Others or fighting for the IT he'll choose the North 10/10 times.On top of the fact that Dany is currently two worlds away from Jon with only two books left in the story, I mean it's one thing to say that she will reach Jon in time by using her Dragon's to fly over with her and a few select ppl, but what about her army? She's not gonna be able to carry her entire army over from the far east of Essos to the northern most point of Westeros...Come on lets try to be somewhat realistic about the means of transportation lol. If and when Dany does reach the wall she'll most likely land there without a considerable amount of her army..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think Jon is gonna ride one of the dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I don't think the Maesters remember or never fully understood or simply stayed on the sidelines. Maybe there are books and scrolls at the citadel that addresses this that picks up with the whole Sam at the Citadel storyline. It would help clarify why the Faceless Men are interested in the Citadel as well. Additionally, there is the entire subplot surrounding the High Septon and the reinstitution of their armed forces. The death of Kevan Lannister all but solidified the Septons rise as a major player in the story.It makes sense to me that Martin would follow and expound upon the historic storyline of the age of reason. He did the same with the War of the Roses.Agreed, and we know the Maesters don't like magic, or dragons, but what do they know about the Starks?Was Rickard's Maester the first in the Stark family?Lady Dustin's distrust and dislike of the Stark Maester could be because he pushed the Starks to make marriages in the South, cutting off her family, and other Northern families ambitions by marrying into the Starks, or it could be because as followers of the Old gods, they never had Maesters, as certainly they never had a Septa/Septon until Cat Tully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Lives Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Lady Dustin's distrust and dislike of the Stark Maester could be because he pushed the Starks to make marriages in the South, cutting off her family, and other Northern families ambitions by marrying into the Starks, or it could be because as followers of the Old gods, they never had Maesters, as certainly they never had a Septa/Septon until Cat Tully.Interesting. I didn't think of the arranged southron marriages. Along with Ned serving as a ward in the vale and marrying lyanna to Robert baratheon, the Starks were certainly trying to branch out into the rest of the realm. I originally thought it was rickards attempts to grab power but that wouldn't be very stark like. The Starks even helped lead the rebellion which overthrew the targs. Have the maesters been pulling the strings on the other side all along? Makes me also wonder if the entire thing wasn't some ploy by varys to try and "forge" lightbringer. Varys was a targ supporter but helped overthrow arys. Maybe because he wouldn't allow rhaegar to marry lyanna? Opens up so many possibilities. The maestars were obviously anti-targaryen as we know they killed off the dragons. Mage also makes it clear that Sam will be killed if he spreads rumors of dragons and aemon would have been killed simply for showing his face. The maesters are trying to rid the world of magic while the sept is trying to rid the world of the old gods and rhollar. The Starks and targs think they are fighting for the throne when in reality they are fighting against a hidden vast conspiracy to rid the world of both lines, the old religions, and all magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jon Icefire: the means of transportation is currently on its way in the form of the Volantene fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UVA Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Hahaha really? I absolutely love Eva Green, she's probably one of my favorite actresses, she was awesome in Kingdom of Heaven and even better in Casino Royale, and yes I think she's a total babe lol. :drool: I've always imagined Lyanna to be her lol.....Yea, hahaha really, I don't like Eva as Lyanna, never have -- too deep set eyes, too sinister a look about her. Very good actress but not my Idea of Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Jon Icefire: the means of transportation is currently on its way in the form of the Volantene fleet.It's not gonna be that simple, also that remarkably long journey that fleet would have from the far east of Essos to the Northern most point of Westeros would be in the thick of the new winter season in Westeros. All but maybe a select few ppl in Dany's army haven't even heard of winter lol. The vast majority of those foreigners that are in her army wouldn't stand a chance against the Westeros winter, especially when you consider they would be trying to go to the Northern kingdom of Westeros where winter would hit them the hardest...Again if Dany does indeed make it to the wall, I doubt the vast majority of her army comes with her.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Ya Garret Hedlund is another good Rhaegar, but unfortunately he's too big of a name for HBO to wrap up. :bang:http://memetrics.fil...ett-hedlund.jpgGOOD LORD, it's Sam Flynn from "Tron."And Olivia Wilde is another that's been mentioned for Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 And Olivia Wilde is another that's been mentioned for Lyanna.Oh I like that! I think she would be perfect for Ashara Danye:http://www.wallpaper...erfo.com_31.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Interesting. I didn't think of the arranged southron marriages. Along with Ned serving as a ward in the vale and marrying lyanna to Robert baratheon, the Starks were certainly trying to branch out into the rest of the realm. I originally thought it was rickards attempts to grab power but that wouldn't be very stark like. The Starks even helped lead the rebellion which overthrew the targs. Have the maesters been pulling the strings on the other side all along? Makes me also wonder if the entire thing wasn't some ploy by varys to try and "forge" lightbringer. Varys was a targ supporter but helped overthrow arys. Maybe because he wouldn't allow rhaegar to marry lyanna? Opens up so many possibilities. The maestars were obviously anti-targaryen as we know they killed off the dragons. Mage also makes it clear that Sam will be killed if he spreads rumors of dragons and aemon would have been killed simply for showing his face. The maesters are trying to rid the world of magic while the sept is trying to rid the world of the old gods and rhollar. The Starks and targs think they are fighting for the throne when in reality they are fighting against a hidden vast conspiracy to rid the world of both lines, the old religions, and all magic.Yes, and the fact that the App. clarified that Robert Berantheon had Ned to push his suit with Lyanna with his Father could indicate that Rickard's "Southron Ambitions" could be no more that the machinations of his Maester fortified by the Berantheon suit.On his own, perhaps Rickard would not have gone in that direction after all, but clung to his Northern aloofness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Oh I like that! I think she would be perfect for Ashara Danye:http://www.wallpaper...erfo.com_31.jpgOr, (go get a drink), :), Odette Yustman with grey contacts:http://searchweight....e-yustman-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Icefyre Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Or, (go get a drink), :), Odette Yustman with grey contacts:http://searchweight....e-yustman-2.jpgWow! :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Wow! :wub:And with that, gnite :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Or, (go get a drink), :), Odette Yustman with grey contacts:http://searchweight....e-yustman-2.jpgNot bad!I could use some debunking help, if you could:"THEY DID NOT GET A FREE PASS. They DID it (incest), but they got backlash for it! When Rheagar's grandfather decided that Aerys was going to marry his sister Rheanys, there was an outcry that never really faded. It was one of the many, many things that contributed to the deterioration of Targaryan support among the nobles. Not least of which because when brother marries sister, this limits your ability to make important alliances though marriage. For a noble house still recovering from Aegon "marry whoever you want" The Unlikely, this was a very bad time to resurrect the incest tradition."To my best knowledge, there is zero support for this in the books, rather the contrary. Are there any SSMs adressing the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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