Boarders Writing a Novel, Part 9

[The Marquis de Leech]

So as I'm trying to write, I'm learning that I'm an absolute failure when it comes to descriptive language. I tried to describe my own hand just to get the gist of it and I can't even do that. Describing what people look like is going to be very, very troubling. A lot of it might be being limited in adjectives I know because of how low quality my education has been and the rest is simply not knowing what things are. Can anyone provide tips?

Avoid adjectives where possible. A better solution is to focus on something precise and distinctive about what it is you're trying to describe (does your hand have a mole on it? Are the veins prominent?).

[Francis Buck]

Yup. I feel like this is the perspective of "someone who got lucky", which is perfectly fine (and I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong), but it certainly doesn't represent the vast majority. Personally, I think the best and really the only overarching advice for writers consists of two rules (and they're hardly original):

1. Write all the time.

2. Read all the time.

That's pretty much it. The more you write, the better you'll get. The more you read, the more knowledgeable you'll become about the medium. I also think a fantastic (and underused) exercise for young/aspiring writers is to OUTLINE. Outline an entire novel. Or a movie. Or hell, even a video game. A lot of people say that spending time not literally writing prose is a waste, and I disagree 100%. From the time I was in fifth grade (when I started "writing") to around my junior year in high school, I rarely wrote complete stories. Instead, I plotted stories. I wrote outlines for any remotely interesting idea I had, be it a summary, a synopsis, or (later) a chapter-by-chapter overview. It gave me an awareness for the way plots work, how they retain the audience's interest, how they establish pacing, build mood, atmosphere, suspense, etc., none of which can easily be gleaned from just writing prose (unless you're a prodigy, or, on the other hand, write a ridiculous amount from an early age). I honestly think an understanding of plot, and plot mechanics, is more important than the quality of your prose. A good story is a good story, whether it's a novel, a movie, or told to you around a campfire. Of course the delivery is relevant, and if you're great at the delivery then it's even better, but at the core of this art we are storytellers, and if the story isn't good, then it doesn't matter how embellished your telling of it is.

I should also clarify that by "Write all the time", I really mean, "Immerse yourself in the art of storytelling". The word "write" is kind of loaded in our craft, in the sense that it implies multiple things, such as plotting, characterization, prose, etc. In reality, I think the most important part (as I mentioned earlier) is the crafting of a story, which certainly includes all of those elements, but which also usually requires a certain amount of external work to solidify (and thus perfect) those various aspects. I agree with Eloisa's statements on the last page about needing to take a step back and "see the forest for the trees", so to speak. If you just barge forward, writing line after line of prose and thinking everything will work out in the end because you're "writing", then you're probably going to end up with something inconsistent and janky, that likely jeopardizes the suspension of disbelief for the reader. It has to make sense. There's a reason why novels, movies, and television shows that are praised for being realistic, are also considered some of the best works in the medium. Look at Pride and Prejudice, or The Godfather, or The Wire, or The Last of Us. These pieces "work" because they establish a credibility, a realism, while simultaneously telling a damn good story. Even ASOIAF does this; in fact, it's probably the defining aspect of the series, and yet a lot people overlook it. Go read some reviews for the typical "shitty" action movie. Most of the reasons for it's shitiness are due to a lack of realism. They failed at creating a suspension of disbelief. When it's realistic, people fall into the world without realizing it, because it's natural. It's such an important element, and yet it seems so rarely emphasised to me.

[SpaceChampion]

So as I'm trying to write, I'm learning that I'm an absolute failure when it comes to descriptive language. I tried to describe my own hand just to get the gist of it and I can't even do that. Describing what people look like is going to be very, very troubling. A lot of it might be being limited in adjectives I know because of how low quality my education has been and the rest is simply not knowing what things are. Can anyone provide tips?

First question to ask yourself, why describe things at all? Only describe the things in the scene relevant to revealing something about the character or a detail the character notices that is important to the plot. If a character barely notices something but it is important to the plot, barely describe it. Everything else should be cut.

Second question is how to describe things. As James Alan Garner puts it, "A descriptive passage is the story of a character’s encounter with a person, place, or thing."

How you describe something should be dependent on your type of viewpoint or narrator and the amount of detail they would notice, in the order they would notice it. Give it a beginning, a middle, and an end. For example, a beginning might include a bit of why your character is even looking at that thing - motivation. Middle is a change in the thing or character's opinion of the thing. End is a resolution to the character's relationship to the thing, some sort of emotional response perhaps.

Harry hoped Lilly was in a good mood. He walked into the flower shop to ask her out on a date, the little bell over the glass door clanging, announcing his presence before he could even catch his breath. Sweat beaded and trickled down his temple. The shop sure was humid. Bringing a half-wilted flower to a girl in a flower shop had to be the stupidest thing he'd ever done. Lilly came out of the back as the bell was done clanking, and she frowned at him. "Oh, hey," she said. The half-smile plastered on her face didn't look sincere.

Customer. She thinks I'm a customer

. But then slowly one eyebrow raised as she her gaze drifted to the tiger lilly he held in his sweaty clutch, and suddenly her smile was a real and vibrant grin.

I can work with that!

ETA: I've been on this board and its predecessor since '98 or so, fifteen years, and this is my 1000th post.

[First of My Name]

So as I'm trying to write, I'm learning that I'm an absolute failure when it comes to descriptive language. I tried to describe my own hand just to get the gist of it and I can't even do that. Describing what people look like is going to be very, very troubling. A lot of it might be being limited in adjectives I know because of how low quality my education has been and the rest is simply not knowing what things are. Can anyone provide tips?

My advice:

Only describe things that the reader cannot imagine themselves. For example, 'His hands were trembling' is enough, the readers know what a hand looks like. Meaning not: 'His hands, which were the color if skin and hung at the end of his arms, were trembling.' (Bit overdone, I know, but still.)

But if the person's hands were different from normal hands (they're blue, I dunno) then you can remark on the difference. 'His hands, which were the color of a clear cloudless sky...' or 'His dark-blue hands...'

Bottom line: The readers what a chair or a guy looks like, but not what variations of those or new ideas look like.

Hope that helps.

[Spockydog]

So as I'm trying to write, I'm learning that I'm an absolute failure when it comes to descriptive language. I tried to describe my own hand just to get the gist of it and I can't even do that. Describing what people look like is going to be very, very troubling. A lot of it might be being limited in adjectives I know because of how low quality my education has been and the rest is simply not knowing what things are. Can anyone provide tips?

Another pearl of wisdom from Chuck Wendig's blog:

20. STOP FUCKING DESCRIBING EVERYTHING

Pages of description make me want to go back in time and punch you as a baby. Except I can’t because you’ve bored me so much I fell asleep. Description is key. You need it. But you only need so much of it. Let the audience do some work. I know what a chair, a tree, a dude, a dildo all look like. I’ve got memory and imagination. The noun is enough. Describe those things that break the status quo. Describe only those things the audience can’t already know.

[Expecto Patronum]

Hi everyone,

I'm a fellow board member, although I mostly limit to the Forum Games. I just published my debut novella "Let's Kill the Sun." It's a fantasy book for all ages and it is the first of a trilogy.

It is currently available on Amazon Kindle. There is also a paperback version, but it is only available at the moment in the Dominican Republic.

You can find a summary as well as a sample of the book on the amazon page.

If you have the time the facebook page of the book can be found here. I would really appreciate it if you could "like" the page. :wideeyed:

You can also follow me on Twitter as well.

You can check everything out and feel free to PM me any thoughts or comments. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you might have.

I hope you all enjoy it and thanks a lot for the support!Hi everyone,

I'm a fellow board member, although I mostly limit to the Forum Games. I just published my debut novella "Let's Kill the Sun." It's a fantasy book for all ages and it is the first of a trilogy.

It is currently available on Amazon Kindle. There is also a paperback version, but it is only available at the moment in the Dominican Republic.

You can find a summary as well as a sample of the book on the amazon page.

If you have the time the facebook page of the book can be found here. I would really appreciate it if you could "like" the page. :wideeyed:

You can also follow me on Twitter as well.

You can check everything out and feel free to PM me any thoughts or comments. I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you might have.

I hope you all enjoy it and thanks a lot for the support!

[Arthmail]

For descriptions, if i am having trouble, i often look to google images for help. What I have also done is start to save images of cool pictures that I find, mostly on Reddit as i waste too much time on that site, to my computer in case i need a dose of inspiration in the future.

So in my current book, House of Water, the setting is my world's equivalent of India, with great overtones of Middle Eastern (mostly Persian) architecture due to some of the migration patterns within my world. If i need the feeling of a Mosque i'll look up images of mosques, and that gives me a very strong sense of what i want to describe. I will take several images and simply work them through into the scene. I could go without describing these places, as some might, but i feel that they give me a sense of the moment that i would otherwise lack, as i don't actually use the word mosque at any point (this is the fantasy equivalent, and so therefore a little different. I am also aware of cultural appropriation and so just fly in my own direction without cleaving to any one culture too closely).

I use this technique for sunsets, or sunrises - getting a different idea of the sky and how the light plays across it. Cities. I find i use it the most for architecture, because for some things you can simply say they are at an inn - but you add a few descriptive words and suddenly the place changes enough that you can sense and feel what it is like to be in it. It becomes less of a generic DnD inn and something that might people come across. Low slung ceilings blackened by smoke and age, the outsides of the building blackened by tar used to waterproof aging lumber.

For characters I do the same thing. Each of my characters, at least all of the major ones and some of the minor ones, have real world equivalents of some sort. Actors mostly, as there are often images of them in different costumes from different movies. For some minor characters, or for instance in my House of Water book where i have almost no knowledge of East Indian actresses beyond like Aishwarya Rai (i am a white guy, just to clarify), i'll rely on a distinguishing feature. The sergeant of a group of soldiers holed up in an ancient citadel is Braishan Kaulshara. He is a veteran, and he has a glorious mustache in my mind. So he does like many men with mustaches do, he grooms it a little when thinking. On the other hand, the captain of the soldiers, Riijum Chandira, i mostly just refer to as Captain Riijum. I use almost no descriptive terms for the man, other than to mention that he is given to melancholy. Other than that he has no description beyond the initial of having brown skin, black hair and a neat, trimmed beard.

When it comes to their actions, if that is what you are looking to describe, i always just imagine all of the little nuances that fill people's movements during a regular conversation and then maybe i mention them. So, sitting around drinking - will they fidget, flick their finger against their cup, idly scratch at the table, rub their hands, steeple their hands, scratch. These are not in and of themselves important to the story, and some would argue that they need not be included, but i find as a reader that small little details, it does not have to be long winding descriptions, can give a sense of time and place.

So, i went to bed late and got up early. Hopefully this all makes sense.

[Expecto Patronum]

I do that too.. I really like descriptive narrative. Mostly because I add the quirks and details that my characters have so people can have the right "feel" of how they are. But I do leave out the not so relevant stuff, some people might imagine something else, but if it's not an important quirk then I can let it pass.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

I tend to describe the sex of the character, the colour of that person's hair and sometimes the colour of their eyes. I tend to leave the rest to the reader to be honest.

When describing a location, I like to give the audience a feel of the climate, so if it is a desert, I describe the heat and what effects it will have on a character. But I try and keep it simple.

[First of My Name]

I tend to describe the sex of the character, the colour of that person's hair and sometimes the colour of their eyes. I tend to leave the rest to the reader to be honest.

I also throw in the color of that person's skin

And Expecto Patronum, congrats!

[The Marquis de Leech]

I also throw in the color of that person's skin

That's a funny one. Readers generally tend to associate the protagonist's skin colour with their own, unless it is otherwise specified. This can be played with: Neil Gaiman's Anansi Boys has an all-black main cast - they're just never described as such, since being black is the default, and any white characters are specified as having white skin.

[First of My Name]

That's a funny one. Readers generally tend to associate the protagonist's skin colour with their own, unless it is otherwise specified. This can be played with: Neil Gaiman's Anansi Boys has an all-black main cast - they're just never described as such, since being black is the default, and any white characters are specified as having white skin.

This is very true, but as I don't want to have a book that features only white people, so I describe it anyway (andthere are more shades than just black or white, so I try to vary)

[Jaime's Wench]

I try to pick out unique features as well as generic, especially parts that are relevant to the story. I have three brothers all with blonde hair and blue eyes. Lucian is muscled and broad with a very strong square jaw; Cleon is tall and broad but doesn't have the brawn and he sweats easily, though very handsome in the face; Eawan still looks half a boy, with only a light amount of facial hair, peach cheeks, rosy lips etc. These are important to differentiating one from the other and works well with their personalities too.

I have had a really REALLY shit time of it lately at work. Just had a lesson observation by the Head where he slated me for things that I thought were my key strengths and gave me no credit for the good work I had done. I'm bitterly angry. I'm hoping to work up some lost self-esteem this evening by doing some novel editing. At least when I work on my novel what I put in is generally what I get out.

[First of My Name]

I narrowed all my endless ideas for the Ensekyrai series down to 23 books, spanning 337 years of history. Right now I am EXCITED AS FUCK for this.

I'm currently reading Heroes Die, and author Matthew Stover keeps hitting me in the face with how bland my own prose can be, I need to work hard on that.

[Starkess]

23 books...the mind boggles. I have enough trouble planning one! Good luck. :)

My goal for July is to finish the first draft of my current work. I started it in the beginning of June 2012, so this would mark the fastest I have ever completed a full manuscript. Now I just need to do it!

[Ebenstone]

I narrowed all my endless ideas for the Ensekyrai series down to 23 books, spanning 337 years of history.

That word, narrowed, I do not think it means what you think it means.

23 books...the mind boggles. I have enough trouble planning one! Good luck. :)

My goal for July is to finish the first draft of my current work. I started it in the beginning of June 2012, so this would mark the fastest I have ever completed a full manuscript. Now I just need to do it!

Wow! Good for you. It took me a month and a half to finish the novella. Really struggling on the present project, though I just figured out two things that I have to watch/read to help me wrap my brain around the project.

[OctopusArms]

23 books? Damn, man -- good luck!

I've been slow this past week. I decided to hold off on editing the story I finished last week, and wrote another flash story. I've joined a writer's group around here and so I also have four submissions to read and critique for next Saturday. I can't wait for my story to get mauled!

I'm currently reading Heroes Die, and author Matthew Stover keeps hitting me in the face with how bland my own prose can be, I need to work hard on that.

I've never read Stover, though he's on my list. I want to read some things outside the genre first, to get sample some other things. Any suggestions? I've got "The Brother's Kalamazov" and "Oliver Twist" ( though I read that long ago) on deck.

[First of My Name]

Thanks to the good luck-wishers. I know, I will never finish all 23, but one can dream (it was originally going to be 25-30). I have 4 finished first drafts and working on 3 more.

It's the project of a lifetime... but I have my whole life ahead of me. If you're gonna dream, dream big, I guess. I'll be happy until death if I even get one book published, and most of them stand alone so it could be any of the books. This is going to be so much fun.

Who knows... 30 years from now, Ensekyrai might be the next ASOIAF :D

23 books? Damn, man -- good luck!

I've been slow this past week. I decided to hold off on editing the story I finished last week, and wrote another flash story. I've joined a writer's group around here and so I also have four submissions to read and critique for next Saturday. I can't wait for my story to get mauled!

I've never read Stover, though he's on my list. I want to read some things outside the genre first, to get sample some other things. Any suggestions? I've got "The Brother's Kalamazov" and "Oliver Twist" ( though I read that long ago) on deck.

Outside the fantasy genre...

-Fall of Giants by Ken Follett, a historical book following both fictional and non-fictional characters through part of the 19th century. I haven't read it yet, but it's on my shelf.

-Wool, by Hugh Howey. I read this and loved it. It's in the future but neither fantasy nor SF. It's about a large group of people living in an underground silo, because the air on earth is now poisonous. Or is it? Brilliant one, this one, and a drama/mystery/thriller of sorts.

[Maegor the Cuddly]

23 books... I... I don't even...

I'm trying to break through the early stages of one. q.q

[deleted01]

Today I came up with a working title for my novel, something that's been niggling at me for a little while. I'm pretty pleased with it.

I haven't sat down and written anything for a few days, I keep imagining scenes and stuff in my head, but I've just lacked the motivation to write. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll get some done. After that I'm pretty busy for a few weeks, being sociable for once :laugh:

Oh and Expecto Patronum - many congratulations to you! I saw the thread earlier actually and thought it sounded cool, so I'll check it out :D