AdXRoss Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Now back onto short story writing mode (leaving round-two edit for the novel for a week or two) - 1200 words written today, but it would be better if someone could tell this short story to stop trying to turn into a novel. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hey guys,I am about to start sending out my query and first three chapters to agents (yes, I'm scared...) I wouldn't mind one or two more people taking a gander at them and just seeing if they can spot anything wrong (no more than that, to be fair, otherwise I'll just tie myself in knots again). If anyone is willing/interested, please let me know.Yes, with the proviso that I won't be able to read them till Sunday. You've got my email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 JW, I'll have a butcher's... Feel free to send to [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Thank you, guys. I've emailed you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted01 Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 I just sent my very rough work to J.K. Accinni, author of the Species Intervention series, after talking to her on Goodreads. Safe to say, I'm shitting myself :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of My Name Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Thank you, guys. I've emailed you both.Do you need a third person to give feedback? If so, I'll give my mail adress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 By all means, First of My Name. I am more than happy for you to look at it.I woke up early today with an epic hangover, so I bought an e-copy of The Emotion Thesaurus. It has a really good intro and then the thesaurus itself has some great cues for 'showing' various emotions, whilst avoiding cliches and melodrama. I'm defo going to use it when editing my novel from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of My Name Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 By all means, First of My Name. I am more than happy for you to look at it.I'll give you my mail in one of those personal messages.ETA : it says you can't receive any new messages, so please send it to [email protected]. I'll take a look at it as soon as I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Oops, my inbox is full! I've emailled it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 While reading up on golems and such, I started thinking of the structure for Frankenstein (novel) and it suddenly occurred to me that my long gestating Renaissance historical fantasy might work well by intertwining a past and "present" story of the protagonist.I'm planning a series of standalone novels, so if I did this, I'd probably need to carry it through all of them. For example, Hero is having an adventure in 1472 that takes him across Italy. In between each "act" (location, really), I'd insert an interlude from 1492 (or there abouts) with the older man now a courtier. These interludes would be linked thematically to the main tale and possibly offer a different perspective on what happened. It can be a revelation or a parallel "mission" or even a case of him completing the mission 30 years later (kind of like the prologue of Last Crusade). The interludes wouldn't be him "telling" his past, though that could be the case if warranted.Anyway. Still mulling this over.What are you opinions of frame stories? Pros? Cons?The only frame stories I can think of off hand are Frankenstein and Name of the Wind. I guess How I Met Your Mother is a television frame story. Know of any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Two that spring to mind are Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire, and Neil Gaiman's short story, Murder Mysteries.I'm actually working on one myself titled The Legend of the Silver Hand, so I'm all for them.ETA: The Princess Bride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Canterbury Tales and the first Chinese novel The Dream of The Red Chamber have framing stories. Bujold's Miles Vorkosigan anthology Borders of Infinity had one, used to explain his actions to his boss in a security debriefing -- and also identify possible enemies who might want to cast blame on Miles for treasonous acts.A Frame provides sort of an pseudo-omniscient viewpoint, doesn't it? In the sense that if you're telling a tale at any time after the fact the viewpoint character ought to know more about what happened previously than in the moment. So that could be dangerous if you don't want to reveal too much too soon and either have the character lie to the audience to avoid a reveal or dance around whatever you are trying to hide. Or have a different character providing the frame who doesn't actually know the real story, only a filtered view of it distorted by propaganda, for instance.A frame can allow your character to tell several stories that are only connected by theme mainly, and comment on the fact.A frame can be good for atmosphere, if you hinting at horrible events, sort of the way a prophesy in a fantasy story provides hints. Why do fantasy writers use prophesy? I think it has to do with setting up expectations so the reader will know what kind of story to expect, to avoid the read thinking "This is cliche!" and throw the book away before seeing your twist or deconstruction of the cliche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of My Name Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Oops, my inbox is full! I've emailled it to you.I received and I'm taking a looking at it now. It looks promising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I received and I'm taking a looking at it now. It looks promising!Awesome - good to hear!I've never been a massive fan of leaping between time periods within one story. I am very much adopting the GRRM technique with my novel, whereby the backstory is woven into dialogue and thoughts, sometimes connecting directly into the present action and sometimes as part of a character's reflections to build up a sense of nostalgia. There are 'Lyanna' and 'Rhaegar' like characters in my book that are dead but we still know a lot about them.A frame can be good for atmosphere, if you hinting at horrible events, sort of the way a prophesy in a fantasy story provides hints. Why do fantasy writers use prophesy? I think it has to do with setting up expectations so the reader will know what kind of story to expect, to avoid the read thinking "This is cliche!" and throw the book away before seeing your twist or deconstruction of the cliche.I used a prophecy in my novel, which was very Maggy the Frogg cryptic. I may delete it now... as it is never resolved in the book and perhaps it gives too much away (plus, you know, I need to cut words out somewhere!)I like prophecies when there is a twist to them, like the classical one in Macbeth where he's deceived into believing he can never die. However, ones that just act as spoilers or sign-posts to the future events frustrate me because we should be intrigued by present action rather than the promise of some future mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First of My Name Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 JW, I just sent you an email with my thoughts on the first chapter. A second one will come soon, tomorrow or in two days at most I hope.ETA: second chapter read too, mail's gone out to you. I like the story so far and I think it has a lot of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The only frame stories I can think of off hand are Frankenstein and Name of the Wind. I guess How I Met Your Mother is a television frame story. Know of any others?Iron Council: not my favourite of the China Mieville books I've read, but likely the best.Like JW I'm not a fan of switching time periods in this manner in one book, but it can work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I've never been a massive fan of leaping between time periods within one story. I am very much adopting the GRRM technique with my novel, whereby the backstory is woven into dialogue and thoughts, sometimes connecting directly into the present action and sometimes as part of a character's reflections to build up a sense of nostalgia. There are 'Lyanna' and 'Rhaegar' like characters in my book that are dead but we still know a lot about them.I think that's a very elegant approach. I'm not going to state that one should never use flashbacks or "time travel", but I think that there are much more interesting ways of telling a story that happened in the past other than taking the reader back in time. In my view, if you can stay in the present and convey a back-story through dialogue, you're hitting the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I think that's a very elegant approach. I'm not going to state that one should never use flashbacks or "time travel", but I think that there are much more interesting ways of telling a story that happened in the past other than taking the reader back in time. In my view, if you can stay in the present and convey a back-story through dialogue, you're hitting the mark.I do use some flashback sequences, either as dreams or as part of a character's internal reflections, but there's also use of dialogue. I'm a history teacher so the personal history and 'world heritage' are important in my novels. I find it adds texture to the story because it helps to explain the present culture of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Iron Council: not my favourite of the China Mieville books I've read, but likely the best.Like JW I'm not a fan of switching time periods in this manner in one book, but it can work well.I'll have to check out Iron Council. Thanks, Eloisa.And thanks for all the other points of view. Right now, I'm envisioning the frame story "Interludes" to be more like flashforwards, than the main story being flashbacks, if that even makes sense. Princess Bride is a good comparison: the adventure continues and the Interludes interrupt just enough to add perspective or create tension, before returning to the story (already in progress). Now, being able to carry that off....And it's going to be very hard to convey the shifting political landscape of just the 1470's, let alone clarifying the differences between the alliances influenced by Pope Sixtus as opposed to the relative calm (by comparison) under Pope Innocent in the late 80's and early 90's (before Rodrigo Borgia becomes Pope). That alone might make this idea a bad one. I'll keep thinking about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime's Wench Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Just watched the finale of the Borgias. How old is Jeremy Irons? I still would...Your book sounds right up my street, Myrddin. My novel is set in vaguely the same historical period (early Renaissance) only in its own universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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