Boarders Writing a Novel, Part 9

[Galleymac]

That's a funny one. Readers generally tend to associate the protagonist's skin colour with their own, unless it is otherwise specified. This can be played with: Neil Gaiman's Anansi Boys has an all-black main cast - they're just never described as such, since being black is the default, and any white characters are specified as having white skin.

Readers tend to assume the protagonist's skin color is whatever the marjority's is, in the culture they're brought up in. Conditioning by the majority of stories one is told in a given culture. This is why some western authors have gotten flak for not specifying that their "bronzed" or "swarthy" characters are not actually just pale people with a tan, even when this is meant to be a racial characteristic. And why Gaiman's trick worked even on black people. (I liked that trick. :-)

[First of My Name]

Just out of curiosity, how much of each novel do you have summarized? For example, do you have a simple three act structure for each? Do you know where your characters are at the end of the series, and how that correlates to the beginning? Personally, I never like to guesstimate the size of a particular story/series until I know...well, quite a bit about how the little moving parts are going to work out. Basically, what's forcing you to make this series take place over 337 years?

To be fair I've missed the last couple of pages, so if I'm being ignorant just let me know.

EDIT: Also how long are the first drafts you've completed? What made you start from somewhere in the middle-ish, rather than the beginning? How long do you intend each installment to be?

For what it's worth, I'm not one to question someone's writing methods in the slightest. Whatever works for you, works for you, and more power to you for it. I'm just curious, I suppose. Also, according to your profile you're fifteen years old. How long have you been writing?

Here goes:

-The major plot points for nearly all stories, and the beginnings and endings are summarized, but they're subject to change

-The 337 years just interests me... It's not necessary and nearly all stories stand on their own. But with this, I can follow the invention of new technology (the world starts in a somewhat mediëval state, and ends more modern than our world), the course of the sexual revolution (from taboo to normal, or the other way around) and the rise and fall of civilizations.

-The first drafts are ongenough to be officially called novels. One is 45,000 words, the twoDay for Martyrs stories are about 70,000. Another one is verrry short as I wrote it several years ago.

-I start from the middle because those were the first stories I'd planned. The Sinners Rising/Apprentice/War for E'Crono were stories I came up with in elementary school, the rest came later. All the stories before The Sinners Rising were ideasI had in the last year.

-I haven't really thought about intended length, as I focus more on writing than editing. This is somethig I will need to think about.

-I started writing about four years ago (has it been that long?)

I hope that answers your questions. And I fully understand your curiosity; if I'd meet a fifteen year old boy with such a project I'd name him crazy :D

[voodooqueen126]

Readers tend to assume the protagonist's skin color is whatever the marjority's is, in the culture they're brought up in. Conditioning by the majority of stories one is told in a given culture. This is why some western authors have gotten flak for not specifying that their "bronzed" or "swarthy" characters are not actually just pale people with a tan, even when this is meant to be a racial characteristic. And why Gaiman's trick worked even on black people. (I liked that trick. :-)

Do you think the line:

Adi Tagimoucia had the palest skin that Malu had ever seen: it was the colour of the Warrego River* when it flooded.

'Isn't my sister beautiful." Said the Emperor as he picked up the fat fold on his sister's side and held it in his hand. Malu wondered how it was possible to get that fat. The Emperor squeezed and his sister gasped, her soft brown eyes going wide with pain."

*Which is a yellowy-reddy-brown if this picture is anything to go by. http://www.sunzine.com.au/outback/cunnamulla.html

*Malu-the narrator through whom this is seen is about as dark as man in the second last picture

http://www.divxclasico.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=1038&t=48282

[Selysin]

Brilliant. So happy you enjoyed it. I think you are the first person to finish it! If I ever get famous you will have the honour of saying that.

If I could be so bold as to ask you to review it on Amazon. I'd really appreciate it - every little helps.

Done. I think I get to say that I'm the first person to review it on Amazon as well.

Now back to the convoluted mess masquerading as my plot.

[TrackerNeil]

Finally published my novel, "Ritual of the Stones" today. It has been a hard slog but to see it up on Amazon fills me with pride. Right on to book 2.

Congrats on finishing it, which is more than most can say. Best of luck!

[Snikt5]

Done. I think I get to say that I'm the first person to review it on Amazon as well.

Now back to the convoluted mess masquerading as my plot.

Just seen it, so many people say they will do a review and then don't, I am honestly humbled you took the time to read and review the book. Thank you so much. Best of luck wih your plot.

Congrats on finishing it, which is more than most can say. Best of luck!

Thank you. I am trying not to check the reports on Amazon every 5 minutes!!

[TrackerNeil]

Thank you. I am trying not to check the reports on Amazon every 5 minutes!!

Oh, I went through that as well! It drove me crazy but I just couldn't stop, at least for the first few weeks. You'll be surprised how quickly that practice goes from compulsive to tedious, though.

[Howdyphillip]

I just fell victim to not saving my work this week. I lost 2,000 words, which bothers me, but I will be able to replicate it without too much effort as I remember the overall points. What really is the stab to the gut is that I lost three days of notes and research.

I had completely forgotten this little problem. I think I am going to get a tattoo on the back of my hands that says "save your work" as a reminder.

[Gabriele]

Now back to the convoluted mess masquerading as my plot.

Be glad it's still masquerading as plot. Mine gave up on that some time ago and is now simply a convoluted mess. :D

Yes, I'm a gardener. I tried outlining, but it doesn't work for me.

[Snikt5]

I just fell victim to not saving my work this week. I lost 2,000 words, which bothers me, but I will be able to replicate it without too much effort as I remember the overall points. What really is the stab to the gut is that I lost three days of notes and research.

I had completely forgotten this little problem. I think I am going to get a tattoo on the back of my hands that says "save your work" as a reminder.

I lost 5,000 words because of this. I saved it but then somehow lost it. Now days I save it on the laptop, memory stick and send any email to myself when I complete a chapter!

[Galleymac]

Do you think the line:

Adi Tagimoucia had the palest skin that Malu had ever seen: it was the colour of the Warrego River* when it flooded.

'Isn't my sister beautiful." Said the Emperor as he picked up the fat fold on his sister's side and held it in his hand. Malu wondered how it was possible to get that fat. The Emperor squeezed and his sister gasped, her soft brown eyes going wide with pain."

*Which is a yellowy-reddy-brown if this picture is anything to go by. http://www.sunzine.c...cunnamulla.html

*Malu-the narrator through whom this is seen is about as dark as man in the second last picture

http://www.divxclasi...?f=1038&t=48282

I think that's actually amazingly cool! It might be misinterpreted out of context (and I would assume that as the story goes on more "clues" will be provided) but I also think a reader has some responsibility to glean the context. And I personally love it when the text forces me to figure out stuff, relying less on infodumping. For me, anthropological difference is one of the most rewarding things about SFF, and I think incorporating clues is a great way to really get the reader to internalize it, once the reader grasps it.

Eventually I'd need to know what colors rivers tended to be in the world I'm reading about, of course. :) In science-fiction, it would not be outrageous for a reader to wonder if the skin in question wasn't a nice light blue! But weaving those clues through the narrative is a legit tactic, I think.

It does make the reading somewhat more difficult, somewhat more "work." I like reading, say, Samuel Delany, but it takes me longer to finish him than, say, the Morganville Vampires (which I also like, by the way, when in the right frame of mind), and if I'm tired or in a horrible mood I might gravitate more Morganville-ward. And can backfire, yes, but all writing for the consumption of others is a risk and a learning experience.

(Apologies to Snikt, and Expecto Patronum! In my last drive-by post, I missed yours. Congratulations!)

[Selysin]

Be glad it's still masquerading as plot. Mine gave up on that some time ago and is now simply a convoluted mess. :D

Yes, I'm a gardener. I tried outlining, but it doesn't work for me.

Same here.

A new POV turned up yesterday complete with back story and plot line because the four I have already, one of which I've neglected for ages, clearly aren't enough. The secondary characters keep demanding POV scenes as well. And lets not forget the undead god of chaos who is lurking around the edges just waiting for his chance to make an even bigger mess of my plot than he already has.

If the borderline sentient cursed sword starts demanding a POV as well I'll know it's time to throw in the towel.

[Francis Buck]

Here goes:

-The major plot points for nearly all stories, and the beginnings and endings are summarized, but they're subject to change

-The 337 years just interests me... It's not necessary and nearly all stories stand on their own. But with this, I can follow the invention of new technology (the world starts in a somewhat mediëval state, and ends more modern than our world), the course of the sexual revolution (from taboo to normal, or the other way around) and the rise and fall of civilizations.

-The first drafts are ongenough to be officially called novels. One is 45,000 words, the twoDay for Martyrs stories are about 70,000. Another one is verrry short as I wrote it several years ago.

-I start from the middle because those were the first stories I'd planned. The Sinners Rising/Apprentice/War for E'Crono were stories I came up with in elementary school, the rest came later. All the stories before The Sinners Rising were ideasI had in the last year.

-I haven't really thought about intended length, as I focus more on writing than editing. This is somethig I will need to think about.

-I started writing about four years ago (has it been that long?)

I hope that answers your questions. And I fully understand your curiosity; if I'd meet a fifteen year old boy with such a project I'd name him crazy :D

Understood. And I wouldn't name you crazy, honestly you kinda remind me of myself when I was younger, believe it or not. If you started writing approximately four years ago, then you were about 11? That's around the same age that I started. I also had numerous, over-the-top series that I was "working on", though in your case you seem to have done a hell of a lot more actual writing then I did. Still, your description more-or-less falls in line with what I was saying earlier, which is that the exercise of simply plotting out a story -- any kind of story -- can be just as important and/or beneficial as churning out line after line of prose. And yeah, it's a good idea to go back and start editing some of that stuff. Go and take a look at some older piece you haven't worked on for a while. You'll likely be surprised by how much you've grown as a writer since then. If you ever care to, I'd also be curious to take a gander at something you've done, preferably whatever you might consider your best work (but only if you're comfortable with it, of course).

[The Marquis de Leech]

Another query rejection, but three more sent off.

At the moment, it almost feels like a morbid game of how many different rejection letters I can collect.

[First of My Name]

Understood. And I wouldn't name you crazy, honestly you kinda remind me of myself when I was younger, believe it or not. If you started writing approximately four years ago, then you were about 11? That's around the same age that I started. I also had numerous, over-the-top series that I was "working on", though in your case you seem to have done a hell of a lot more actual writing then I did. Still, your description more-or-less falls in line with what I was saying earlier, which is that the exercise of simply plotting out a story -- any kind of story -- can be just as important and/or beneficial as churning out line after line of prose. And yeah, it's a good idea to go back and start editing some of that stuff. Go and take a look at some older piece you haven't worked on for a while. You'll likely be surprised by how much you've grown as a writer since then. If you ever care to, I'd also be curious to take a gander at something you've done, preferably whatever you might consider your best work (but only if you're comfortable with it, of course).

Yes, I was around 11. My "novels" indeed need a lot of editing, but I think I will do that when I have the full series planned out, because then I know what is needed or unnecessary in other books, I'll have the bigger picture.

And I would love to share some work! The downside: I'm Dutch, and I would need to translate it toEnglish first. But no matter, I've done this before. I've got two passages already translated, one about a boy suspecting he's gay and another about a son killing his father, who in turn had killed his other son. Still working on those though. I'll scour my documents for my best work.

And @RBPL, I hope your time will come. I don't who said it, but if you're good at something the money will find you.

ETA: francisbuck, I now have three passages and a prologue ready, and while I hesitate to say they're my best or good ingeneral, I don't think they're bad, so you can say what you want to read if you're still interested:

-The prologue, in which a crazy child decides to kill his father

-A boy thinking he's gay and agonizing over it

-A passage where a soldier looks upon the burning empire he swore to protect

-A second son wanting to kill his father, this time an adult wanting revenge

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

Another query rejection, but three more sent off.

At the moment, it almost feels like a morbid game of how many different rejection letters I can collect.

I'm sure your luck will change, don't worry and keep persisting.

[Gabriele]

Same here.

If the borderline sentient cursed sword starts demanding a POV as well I'll know it's time to throw in the towel.

That could actually be fun. :)

In A Land Unconquered, I wanted a nice, limited POV story about the battle of the Teutoburg Forest and its aftermath, with one Roman and one German MC, both fictive. But - the historical - Arminius wasn't content with that and wanted a POV, and then his opponents Varus, Tiberius and Germanicus (of the dysfuctional Julio-Claudian family), and his German enemy Segestes wanted a POV, too, and his wife started bitching, and then Germanicus' wife said when Thurisnelda got a bigger role, she wanted one as well. And that spread to other fictive characters besides the two I planned, including the antagonist and a secondary female character who by now joined the Roman army in Germania .... it's hopeless. That book is going to turn into another ASOIAF.

And don't even get me started about the Tentacled Subplot Fantasy Monster. ;)

[AdXRoss]

Another query rejection, but three more sent off.

At the moment, it almost feels like a morbid game of how many different rejection letters I can collect.

I know the feeling - the trick, I hope, is just to keep at it.

[TrackerNeil]

Another query rejection, but three more sent off.

At the moment, it almost feels like a morbid game of how many different rejection letters I can collect.

Wait until you get dumped by your agent. They don't make a Hallmark card for that!

[Jaime's Wench]

Another query rejection, but three more sent off.

At the moment, it almost feels like a morbid game of how many different rejection letters I can collect.

You're braver than me. I haven't yet engaged in this game of rejections since I take failure hard. I do admire you for having the self-esteem to continue on.

First of My Name - It does sound like you have a real love for writing and an enthusiasm that I couldn't match at your age (and I was quite prolific). Keep up that enthusiasm as it will take you far :-)