[Book spoilers]: GoT producers expect 8 seasons

[Phaing]

Pretty much expected. If GoT is 8 seasons long, they can't (and shouldn't) devote too much time to AFfC and ADwD, unless you want them to severely rush the ending. Martin had some weird notions of having those books adapted to three seasons-worth of material, which is just silly.

Your forgetting something;

We haven't seen the last book yet. There could be tremendous content there... we just don't know yet.

But I bet D&D do.

That is my opinion as well. His original plan was 2 trilogies, with the 2nd starting 5 years after ASOS, then he completely scrapped that to avoid writing a lot of flashback. In that process he seems to have gotten a bit overwhelmed by his own story.

Also, with nearly every chapter ending in a cliff hanger it looks like he fell inlove with toomany of his characters and can't decide to kill them off to proceed this trainwreck of a story.

Jeez guys, tell us what you really think... eh? :cool4:

Hell, you might even be right, but I'm not really all that interested in what happens in the Kingdoms any more(especially after the "Red Wedding"), just the Wall and Dani. Those are the threads that matter to me. The rest of it is just one slaughter after another for 'gotcha' moments, why get invested in something like that?

[Hiram McDrogon]

Hell, you might even be right, but I'm not really all that interested in what happens in the Kingdoms any more(especially after the "Red Wedding"), just the Wall and Dani. Those are the threads that matter to me. The rest of it is just one slaughter after another for 'gotcha' moments, why get invested in something like that?

I've reached that stage in the books as well, but more because not that much really changes in the Kingdoms over the 3,000 pages that follow the Purple Wedding (Lannisters in tenuous control, Tyrells powerful but something of an enigma, Dorne pissed off, the North barely under Bolton control, Riverlands a chaotic mess, the Vale staying out of it all).

I keep wondering how the series as a whole is going to look once it's all over: is the War of the Five Kings going to just seem like a minor digression before the "real" story happens (the Tom Bombadil sequence of the War against the Others)? Sure, I've enjoyed the ride - both in the books and the show - but are the Lannisters, the Tyrells, the Boltons, and Littlefinger all going to seem kind of beside the point by the time the series wraps up? I hope not, but it's going to be damn hard for GRRM to make all this cohere into one grand story (two trilogies may have worked better in that regard). I worry about how much the stories are all going to come together. The fact that the writing has been, shall we say, less than smooth for over a decade, suggests at least some difficulties with tying it all up.

Eight seasons is a good length for the TV show: a touch long, but not long enough to totally wear out its welcome. For the show, they need to speed up and get to the White Walkers story - show viewers aren't going to be as patient on that as readers.

[Khal Porno]

BENIOFF: We have a death coming up, and a lovely young woman who doesn’t want to die.

I'm guessing Shae.

[Frumpus]

Can people please stop speculating that Arya's Braavos arc will be in season 4? the Hound & Arya arc has hardly begun and they could fill the entire season with just her storyline. It is one of the best in the books. Suggesting it be truncated is a huge disservice to book readers and to the Sandor Clegane character.

I'm guessing Shae.

I can't imagine that her actress could possibly see a way for Shae to live beyond what's been written.

I'm guessing it's an actress whose character in the book actually lives, since the interview mentions that some characters that don't die in the books will die on the show.

Makes me think they are going to kill off Missandei or Meera Reed.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I think it's a pretty good bet that the characters who will die in the show this coming season, but who are still alive in the novels, are the Clegane brothers.

[Lurtz of Orthanc]

Ygritte is the actress who doesn't want to go (she has an IRL fling with KH, as far as the rumors go. makes the parting even more painful)

I cannot put into words how much better this article makes me feel. Thank you, DnD for finally putting to rest the painful - and impractical - notion that this will be a 7-season show. 8 seasons, even if all of AFFC and ADWD are wrapped up by the beginning of season 6, gives more than enough time for the final books to come out. The fear of the show overtaking Martin to a catastrophic degree is *significantly* - as a fandom, we can breathe a bit more easily. 8 is the number they've tossed around before, and based on this interview where it's given definitively again, that's going to be the number. The show is insanely popular right now, and season 4 will continue to to deliver the goods - that just means a *slightly* less intense season 5 before the spectacular events of TWOW/ADOS that will take up the last 3 seasons (my point being, ratings will stay strong, cancellation is not a worry at all). So basically at this point we have the following mix of information and inference:

-The 10-Season Theorists are, as they have always been, totally nuts. 10 seasons was thrown out in an early interview, and it was always a pipe dream.

-The 9-Season Model is just not gonna happen. 9 seasons has never been a number that's been put out, and since DnD know the sequence of major events in TWOW and ADOS, they clearly know that they don't think they need 9 seasons to tell the story. the 9 season model basically gave 4 ssns to the Original Trilogy, 2.25 seasons to Feast and Dance, and 2.75 seasons to TWOW and ADOS. Could it have worked? Sure. Does it matter? No. It's off the table.

-The 8-Seasons of 80 Episodes is what we can expect. 80 episodes, 80 hours, this seems to be something clearly set into DnD's mindset - something they have repeated and agree on. Barring divine intervention or some kind of disaster, this is not going to change (the "big 12 episode final season" theory will continue to be tossed around, but Cogman has made it clear this is not really logistically possible for the time being.)

-The 7-Season Theory has been brutally plaguing the threads on this forum for a while now. It has some logical things going for it, mainly folk arguing for significant ADWD and AFFC content in season 4, getting to the Battles of Meereen and Winterfell by the end of season 5, with about a season apiece for the final 2 books. This was certainly a possible theory, necessitating many cuts to the story, but it basically made it nigh impossible for GRRM to finish ADOS - or even TWOW - before their seasons aired. A horrible circumstance, and one that now is less likely due to DnD's reinforced commitment to the 80-episode model.

-We can now guesstimate the approximate content of the upcoming seasons:

2011 - S1 - AGOT

2012 - S2 - ACOK

2013 - S3 - ASOS

2014 - S4 - Second half of ASOS, with some Ironborn and Dorne stuff leaking in from Feast. No ADWD Jon or Tyrion. Dany's arc - harder to tell.

2015 - S5 - Full-on AFFC/ADWD. Probably have Daznak's Pit in this season - I could see that being an early-season moment, and the rest filled out with Dothraki. This season must contain the Battle of Winterfell and/or the Battle of Yunkai. Early, early elements of TWOW.

2016 - S6 - Whatever battles and arcs are left over from AFFC/ADWD. Probably some remaining KL stuff. Jon's stabbing could happen early season 6 instead of late season 5, since season 5 will have so much stuff going down. Hard to tell. Seems more like a season ender moment, so I see it more in Season 5. The bulk of TWOW. Perhaps one of the two battles is stretched to the end of this season, or there's some other climactic conflict around the 2/3 point. I can see this season playing out like season 3 - a big shocker event like the Red Wedding as the ep-9 moment.

2017 - S7 - The rest of TWOW's story, plus elements of ADOS. Characters dying in droves.

2018 - S8 - Full-on ADOS. Characters dying in droves. CGI aplenty. Total chaos.

Seasons 6-8 are tricky to predict since we don't know the layout of TWOW's big events. It'll make for the cleanest layout if TWOW has a "Red Wedding" type event 1/2 or 2/3way into the novel to make the critical ep9 moment. Based on these predictions, let's look at the way the books match up to this:

2011: ADWD is released. By Q2 2013, GRRM has anywhere from 25% to 50% of TWOW complete, based on various interviews where he's said 1/4 or 1/3, and the offhand Davos remark that he's 'half done.' Either way, he's got a ways to go. To "beat the show" GRRM needs TWOW out by March 2016 at the absolute latest. This is a very, very outside estimate, and I'd bet money we'll see it published before then. However, if he releases TWOW in early 2016, he's pretty doomed, as he would have 2 years or less for ADOS to beat s8 - very unlikely.

So what circumstances will work out? For the books to beat the show, TWOW needs to be released between 18 and 24 months from now. A summer 2015 release date gives Martin less than 3 years to crank out ADOS - possible, but very risky. That's the outside limit. The ideal estimate is really Q1 2015 - gives him 3 years to write ADOS and get it published just before the show hits - or as it's premiering. The best scenario, and the one we're all hoping for, is the ideal Holiday 2014 release. This gives Martin about 15 months, starting now, to write the rest of TWOW, and then a few more months for it to hit shelves. Then, he can have the first half of 2015 to do press tours and promote the show, as is his wont, and then have another 2 full years and change to write ADOS for release in Holiday 2017 or Q1 2018. Holiday 2014 and Holiday 2017 releases for TWOW and ADOS are what the fandom should be hoping for, and will serve GRRM the best profit and hype-wise: after the intensity of season 4 in 2014, viewers are going to be going nuts about Tyrion and his fate. Sales of AFFC and ADWD will zip along furiously, and TWOW will deliver the goods for the holidays. Then, in Holiday 2017, one season will remain, the fandom will be at a fever pitch - perfect time to get the final novel released. So, thus...

A Dream Of Release Dates:

2014 - April-June - S4 ASOSAFFCADWD

December - The Winds Of Winter.

2015 - April-June - s5 AFFCADWDTWOW

2016 - April-June - s6 ADWDTWOW

2017 - April-June - s7 TWOWADOS

December - A Dream Of Spring.

2018 - April-June - s8 ADOS

So, if season 4's dvd hits and we still don't have a release date for TWOW...then, it's time to start panicking. Until then, 8 seasons gives Martin time.

[Newstar]

]BENIOFF: We have a death coming up, and a lovely young woman who doesn’t want to die.

I'm guessing Shae.

Ygritte is the actress who doesn't want to go

I also think it's probably Ygritte. At the risk of sounding snarky, Ygritte's actress is 26, while Shae's actress, Sibel Kekilli, is 33. I think Sibel Kekilli's a little long in the tooth to be described as a young woman, especially by David Benioff, who's only 10 years her senior.

I'm guessing it's an actress whose character in the book actually lives, since the interview mentions that some characters that don't die in the books will die on the show.

Yeah. I'm way more interested in this quote from the same interview:

]WEISS: There are definitely some deaths coming up where the actors are like, “Are you sure you gotta…?” There are also some characters we have to kill who don’t die in the books, or who are going to die earlier in the series than the books. So we don’t want people to be too confident that they know exactly what’s going to happen, and it is hard.

This is a very big deal. I don't know if by "characters we have to kill who don't die in the books" Weiss means "characters who haven't died SO FAR through ADWD" or "characters whom we know, being spoiled by GRRM, will NEVER die in the books." Similarly, I don't know if by "characters who are going to die earlier in the TV series than in the books" Weiss means "characters who are going to die earlier in the TV series than they died in the published books through ADWD" or "characters who are going to die earlier in the TV series than they will in the books, which we know because we were spoiled by GRRM as to which characters would die."

Either way, it sounds like there will be some unexpected (that is to say, non-book) character deaths in Season 4. The major character deaths that happen in ASOS probably don't qualify as deaths happening "earlier" than in the books: Shae, Ygritte, Tywin, Oberyn, Lysa, and Joffrey. And there really aren't that many character deaths, big or otherwise, after ASOS and before the end of ADWD, either: Quentyn, Janos Slynt, Kevan, Pycelle, Jon (if you think he's really dead, which I don't), Hyle and/or Pod (possibly), etc.

Based on this, my sense is that Weiss in saying the characters do or don't die in "the books" means his knowledge of what D&D have been spoiled as to by GRRM as opposed to "the books which have been already published." So we might very well get some deaths which are "spoilers" as they are characters getting killed off in Season 4 and beyond who are going to die in post-ADWD books. It will probably be difficult to sort out which non-book deaths are spoiling deaths that occur after ADWD and which non-book deaths are not going to be in the books down the road. However, all non-book character deaths are a bit spoilery in of themselves, like the death of the TV show's equivalent to Jeyne Westerling. If a character dies in Season 4 or 5 of the show who hasn't died as of the end of ADWD, then that's a little hint in of itself (that the character is ultimately not terribly important and that their role in the storyline is essentially over with).

It will make Seasons 4+ interesting, because book readers can watch the show and still be surprised by plot twists and turns. I wonder which characters are on the chopping block for non-book character deaths in Season 4. One or both of the Reeds? The Hound?

[protar]

I think it's a pretty good bet that the characters who will die in the show this coming season, but who are still alive in the novels, are the Clegane brothers.

What are you basing that on? Sandor clearly has some future role to play else Martin wouldn't have hinted at his survival. And Ungregor is almost certainly playing a major role in Cersei's story.

I see no reason why they would shy away from resurrection when they haven't before if that's what you mean.

[Newstar]

What are you basing that on? Sandor clearly has some future role to play else Martin wouldn't have hinted at his survival. And Ungregor is almost certainly playing a major role in Cersei's story.

I see no reason why they would shy away from resurrection when they haven't before if that's what you mean.

The Hound seems perfectly positioned to be killed off. In his last confirmed sighting (in ASOS), he's near death, so it would be a very easy matter for Arya to spare him only to have him bleed out and die anyway. From a TV perspective, it would also be a great way to create a clean break and tie up a loose end. As of the end of ADWD, the Hound has disappeared, so short of non-book scenes, the Hound (and by extension, Rory McCann) is going to sit the next two seasons after AFFC out (at least), short of a hooded figure making an appearance on the Quiet Isle (which entire sequence could easily get cut from the show anyway). And we don't know if the Hound is ever coming back post-ADWD, either. He might, he might not. The gravedigger bit could be more of an Easter egg for the readers--the series is full of them--than some future indication that he's destined for important things.

If D&D are--as D.B. Weiss seems to be indicating--killing off characters in Season 4 who either don't die in the books or die later in the books (past ADWD), the Hound could easily fall under one of those categories. And even if GRRM spared the Hound because he has some future post-ADWD role in the story, if the writers do choose to kill him off in the show, then whatever that post-ADWD role is, clearly they believe they can write around it.

My sense from that quote of D.B. Weiss is that they're killing off characters earlier than they die in the books or who don't die in the books. Why? I assume it's to streamline things, tie up loose ends, avoid GRRM's trick of benching characters for multiple books and then bringing them back in a huge way (which has caused major problems already in the show, Exhibit A being Theon's storyline in Season 3). The Hound would be a perfect candidate for this type of cull. He's pretty much dead for all intents and purposes in the books anyway, he effectively disappears as a major character after ASOS, and it's not clear to the reader at this point that he's ever going to reemerge significantly in the story. If the writers are going to be killing off characters in Season 4 who don't die in ASOS, I'm guessing they would start with him.

[protar]

The Hound seems perfectly positioned to be killed off. In his last confirmed sighting (in ASOS), he's near death, so it would be a very easy matter for Arya to spare him only to have him bleed out and die anyway. From a TV perspective, it would also be a great way to create a clean break and tie up a loose end. As of the end of ADWD, the Hound has disappeared, so short of non-book scenes, the Hound (and by extension, Rory McCann) is going to sit the next two seasons after AFFC out (at least), short of a hooded figure making an appearance on the Quiet Isle (which entire sequence could easily get cut from the show anyway). And we don't know if the Hound is ever coming back post-ADWD, either. He might, he might not. The gravedigger bit could be more of an Easter egg for the readers--the series is full of them--than some future indication that he's destined for important things.

If D&D are--as D.B. Weiss seems to be indicating--killing off characters in Season 4 who either don't die in the books or die later in the books (past ADWD), the Hound could easily fall under one of those categories. And even if GRRM spared the Hound because he has some future post-ADWD role in the story, if the writers do choose to kill him off in the show, then whatever that post-ADWD role is, clearly they believe they can write around it.

I think it's safe to say that the Hound has a future role in the books, else why kill him off only to then reveal he's alive? There's no point, and should his future role be some final duel with his undead brother there's really no one else who can fulfill that for dramatic reasons. Obviously they could theoretically write around it, but there's no explanation for why they would write around it.

In any case, I may have misread the interview - I did skim bits of it - but I got the impression they were talking of characters they have already killed, like Irri, Maggo and Rakharo. I didn't necessarily think they were speaking of future seasons.

If they were, the characters being killed will undoubtedly be those characters whose later roles can easily be taken up by someone else. Hot Pie is a possibility: It'd be a crime and a sin, but if Arya and the Hound stop off at the crossroads inn, Polliver may kill Hot Pie and spark off Arya's murderous rampage. I'd say Grenn is another possibility, taking Donal's death scene. Another is Grey Worm, who may end up as victim to the Sons of the Harpy. The Hound though? I'll be very surprised if he doesn't survive and very disappointed as well.

[Khal-a-bunga]

@ protar

Pretty much what Newstar said. I've never held the belief that The Hound (or The Mountain, for that matter) were crucial to the end game of the series, so it makes sense to end their story arcs at the earliest opportunity, in the name of streamlining things. I can see Arya leaving The Hound to die, and The Mountain dying alongside the Red Viper in the same episode. Surely someone else can fight as Cersei's champion (depending on how that whole scenario plays out), and Sandor hasn't done anything at all since A Storm of Swords, so I just don't see the point in keeping them around (in the show, at least). Of course, I could be wrong, and these two might have some major part to play before the end, but as it stands, we wouldn't be seeing either character again in any real capacity until the sixth season, and I think that D&D will want to tie up the plot threads for these two characters for good before that time, if they can. I don't disagree that the two of them may have a role in future books, but I guess I just don't think that that role will be significant enough to keep them around in the show.

And really, it's in keeping with Arya's journey to that point in the story, anyway.

Syrio? I think we can safely say he's dead.

Ned? Ned's dead, baby.

Yoren? Yep. Dead.

Jaqen? Jaqen is dead...

Beric? Will be dead shortly in the show, if he isn't already.

And that leaves The Hound.

EDIT:

Also, it's a bit ambiguous as to whether they're talking about characters from past seasons, but given the context of the question and the answer itself, I'm thinking that they're talking about future developments.

WEISS: There are definitely some deaths coming up where the actors are like, “Are you sure you gotta…?” There are also some characters we have to kill who don’t die in the books, or who are going to die earlier in the series than the books. So we don’t want people to be too confident that they know exactly what’s going to happen, and it is hard. You work a long time on this show and you become close to people, and the idea of killing them doesn't just mean this character isn't going to be in the series anymore, it means basically we’re not going to see this person.

[protar]

@ protar

Pretty much what Newstar said. I've never held the belief that The Hound (or The Mountain, for that matter) were crucial to the end game of the series, so it makes sense to end their story arcs at the earliest opportunity, in the name of streamlining things. I can see Arya leaving The Hound to die, and The Mountain dying alongside the Red Viper in the same episode. Surely someone else can fight as Cersei's champion (depending on how that whole scenario plays out), and Sandor hasn't done anything at all since A Storm of Swords, so I just don't see the point in keeping them around (in the show, at least). Of course, I could be wrong, and these two might have some major part to play before the end, but as it stands, we wouldn't be seeing either character again in any real capacity until the sixth season, and I think that D&D will want to tie up the plot threads for these two characters for good before that time, if they can. I don't disagree that the two of them may have a role in future books, but I guess I just don't think that that role will be significant enough to keep them around in the show.

And really, it's in keeping with Arya's journey to that point in the story, anyway.

Syrio? I think we can safely say he's dead.

Ned? Ned's dead, baby.

Yoren? Yep. Dead.

Jaqen? Jaqen is dead...

Beric? Will be dead shortly in the show, if he isn't already.

And that leaves The Hound.

EDIT:

Also, it's a bit ambiguous as to whether they're talking about characters from past seasons, but given the context of the question and the answer itself, I'm thinking that they're talking about future developments.

I'm kind of confused as to how anybody can think that Sandor and Gregor won't have some importance later on. I mean they both "died" but were bought back. You don't bring someone back from the dead for no reason.

In any case, you've really ignored the crux of my question. Just because they could theoretically kill the Clegane's off early and write around it, it doesn't mean they have a reason to. I mean they could kill of Tyrion next season and write around that but they have no reason to so they won't. So assuming that Sandor and Gregor do have future roles to play, what would be the purpose in having these roles taken by somebody else?

[Khal-a-bunga]

I don't think their theoretical roles are important enough to the end game of the series to include, is essentially my point. More important, I think, is this quote from the same interview...

BENIOFF: I mentioned the pieces on the board, and it’s a real good way of looking at it. At the beginning there was an expansion to populate the game board, and we are at the point where it heads in the other direction and these pieces play off each other and, occasionally, kill each other off, knocking them off the game board. This necessary contraction will continue until the end if we’re lucky enough to get that far. There is a real fundamental satisfaction seeing things head in that direction.

As I said, I could be wrong, but I just don't think the evidence is there to assume that these two characters will play a pivotal role in the end game of this story. And if that's the case, then they could - theoretically - be killed off this season, with minimal impact to the plot (as far as we know).

If anything, whether or not he dies may be left ambiguous, so that they can bring him back if they need to. I don't personally subscribe to some titanic final battle between The Hound & The Mountain happening, personally, so perhaps that's coloring my perception of how their characters might be handled. In any case, 'The Hound died... Sandor Clegane is at rest.' So if he is still alive on the Quiet Isles (which certainly seems to be the case), hopefully he'll stay there and live out the rest of his days in peace.

[Werthead]

I'd really like to know what the problem is. The guy's obviously stuck, and has been for many years. My personal completely unsubstantiated opinion is that he's paying the price for his "gardener approach" and a lack of outline. He's having huge problems transitioning the story from the original trilogy into endgame.

GRRM's been pretty open about the fact he's just not had time to work on it. He took on way too many secondary projects after completing ADWD and it's taken much longer to wrap them all up than he planned. Now he has wrapped them up (for the most part), he's writing much more quickly, as he said to Conan O'Brien.

What do you mean by his Gardener Approach? Personally I think the worst of his brain bog troubles are over. And it is possible that he could be lying about the amount he's written so that people stay pessimistic about TWOW release date and are surprised by an earlier than expect release. Call me crazy, but you never know.

GRRM says there are two types of writers: 'Gardners' discover things as they go, writing each chapter at a time without too much pre-planning. 'Architects' write to a detailed outline and plan. Martin, Tolkien, Stephen King and Robert Jordan are the most famous 'Gardners', whilst people like Steven Erikson, Peter F. Hamilton and Brandon Sanderon as 'Architects'. Someone like Patrick Rothfuss falls inbetween, as he has a detailed plan (in fact, a very early, rough draft of his entire trilogy, written almost a decade ago) but then feels free to deviate from this plan in quite a big way during rewrites, sometimes leading to hundreds of new pages of material being written.

However, GRRM is not 100% a Gardner any more. He wrote a rough outline of the entire series around the time he was working on ACoK and worked to this during the writing of ACoK and ASoS (which might be why ASoS came out relatively quickly). AFFC and most of ADWD went 'off-outline' as he filled in the planned five-year gap, and he only got back onto the outline at the end of ADWD. TWoW and ADoS should be fully on-outline, so assuming he's still referring to it and it's still valid, that might help. GRRM has also said he has thought about and planned the ending of ASoIaF for years, and should naturally get faster as he approaches it as he's gone through it so many times in his head.

Why the sudden need to cover every single detail of the gap-that-never-was?

According to GRRM, the problems with the gap were that Dorne would need to respond immediately to Oberyn's death rather than waiting five years; it was implausible for Brienne to spend five full years wandering the Riverlands; and that the threat of the Others in the first three books would be dissipated if the Night's Watch then had a five-year breather from them. Plus, Westeros would be able to rebuild somewhat in the five years after the Wot5K, rather than being in chaos and ruins when winter arrives, which is more dramatically satisfying.

Can people please stop speculating that Arya's Braavos arc will be in season 4? the Hound & Arya arc has hardly begun and they could fill the entire season with just her storyline. It is one of the best in the books. Suggesting it be truncated is a huge disservice to book readers and to the Sandor Clegane character.

Arya and Sandor have exactly two chapters left in ASoS after the Red Wedding. In the next one she sees Nymeria pulling Cat's body from the Trident and she and Sandor fail to find a way into the Vale and decide to head for Riverrun. In the final one they have the confrontation with the Tickler, Sandor is injured and Arya gets on the boat to Braavos.

If they follow the books, Arya should be getting on the ship in Episode 2 or 3 at the latest. Instead, the TV show introduced a new element by giving Arya the names of the Frey who killed Cat (Black Walder) and the names of those who killed Grey Wind and stitched his head onto Robb's body. That suggests to me that they will have a new filler storyline in tracking and down killing some of the Freys before Arya heads off to Braavos. That could take all season, half the season, or just a few episodes, as they choose.

the "big 12 episode final season" theory will continue to be tossed around, but Cogman has made it clear this is not really logistically possible for the time being.)

It isn't logistically possible because they start work on the following season before the current season is done. The schedule for Season 3/4 was as follows:

January 2012: Start writing Season 3, Season 2 in post-production.

April 2012: Season 2 starts airing, Season 3 greenlit.

July 2012: Season 3 starts filming.

December 2012: Season 3 stops filming, enters post-production.

January 2013: Start writing Season 4.

March 2013: Season 3 starts airing, Season 4 greenlit.

July 2013: Season 4 starts filming.

December 2013: Season 4 finishes filming, enters post.

January 2014: Starts writing Season 5.

March/April 2014: Season 4 starts airing.

So for the final season, they don't have the cram of having to start writing the next season in January. They can continue filming into January/February and stretch out post a bit more, with more hands on deck to help get the episodes done in time. They probably wouldn't be able to make 16-20 episodes or anything like that, but they could do 11-13 if they really went for it and if HBO gave them the money.

[protar]

I don't think their theoretical roles are important enough to the end game of the series to include, is essentially my point. More important, I think, is this quote from the same interview...

As I said, I could be wrong, but I just don't think the evidence is there to assume that these two characters will play a pivotal role in the end game of this story. And if that's the case, then they could - theoretically - be killed off this season, with minimal impact to the plot (as far as we know).

If anything, whether or not he dies may be left ambiguous, so that they can bring him back if they need to. I don't personally subscribe to some titanic final battle between The Hound & The Mountain happening, personally, so perhaps that's coloring my perception of how their characters might be handled. In any case, 'The Hound died... Sandor Clegane is at rest.'

Well I'm sorry but in that case I have to say you have a pretty poor understanding of narrative. If they didn't have any role to play, Martin would have let them lie. But he didn't so they have a role to play.

Now obviously D+D have proven themselves fairly irreverent towards the source material so that fact alone is no reason to assume that they'll stick to the books. However they have also proven a desire to at least hit all the major plot points which means if they were to write off Gregor and the Hound, they'd need to write around that to get the plot back to the same point. And obviously as we don't have the last two books it's hard to say, but is it really likely that there's going to be a situation where it will infeasible to reintroduce Sandor and/or Gregor into the show? I mean they could have Cersei's trial with Ser Meryn as her champion, but how exactly does that make better TV than Robert Strong? How exactly is that easier?

So in short, you're proposing that they be cut based on an assumption that makes no logical sense to me.

ETA: I feel I haven't articulated my point very well, so in summary: I really don't think that killing off the Clegane's will streamline the plot very well as D+D will still have to write around their absence.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Or Cersei might not receive a trial by combat at all. Robert Strong could be revealed as an abomination, and the citizens of King's Landing could revolt against any and all Lannister's. Point is, you don't know that any of what you're assuming to be true will come to pass. You're speculating just as much as I am, to be perfectly honest.

In any case, I'm talking about the show here; not the book series. So to say that I have a "poor understanding of narrative" because I don't feel that their eventual end point in the books will be necessary to show on-screen isn't just rude, it's ignorant of how these two characters have been portrayed thus far in the show. Their rivalry, such as it is, has hardly been a major point of development for Sandor, and we've seen The Mountain all of three times.

So in short, you proposing that they have some major role to play before all is said and done, makes no logical sense to me - within the frame work of the show. Not every sub-plot from the books is going to make the cut going forward, and considering how little material either of these characters have been given since A Storm of Swords, this would be an easy one to cut.

Unless, of course, Sandor & Robert Strong battling it out plays some pivotal role in the fight against the White Walker's... Which I very much doubt. Sure, it provides closure for these characters, but the book series has the time to spend on those types of resolutions (i.e. supporting and/or minor character arcs). For all we know, Lancel could end up dueling with Loras in the show.

Point is, some major changes are coming, because it's looking more and more likely that A Feast for Crows & A Dance with Dragons will be condensed into one season of television. So with that in mind, story lines like The Hound becoming a gravedigger on the Quiet Isles aren't likely to pass the 'Does this story line matter in terms of the end goal?' test.

Regardless, it's all speculation. On both sides. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but setting Sandor and Gregor up for some final battle, where The Hound will prove himself a true knight... Well, that kind of goes against Martin's M.O.

[Caelestis]

Well I'm sorry but in that case I have to say you have a pretty poor understanding of narrative. If they didn't have any role to play, Martin would have let them lie. But he didn't so they have a role to play.

That is a BIG assumption.

For all we know, GRRM was initially planning to just let the Hound die at the end of ASOS because his purpose in the narrative was done, but then decided that it may be more satisfying for his character arc to survive and give up violence completely, essentially becoming a monk. There are some pretty strong implications in the 'Quiet Isle'-episode that the Hound really IS dead: as in, Sandor Clegane may have survived, but his life of battle is over. I personally believe this also implies that Sandor has given up on vengeance against Gregor and embraced a different way of life. While Gregor Clegane was undoubtedly re-animated by Qyburn and this may still be in the show (they might not have included Qyburn if this wasn't the case), that doesn't automatically imply that Sandor is going to be fighting him. In fact, such typical tropes of rivalries and vendettas that neatly get wrapped up by the end of the story seems like the kind of cliché that Martin wants to avoid: as such, Sandor choosing not to fight Gregor (who arguably isn't Gregor at all anymore) and just quietly disappearing from the narrative seems like a far more powerful way of handling his fate to me.

Taking that into consideration, the Hound truly dying next season doesn't seem unreasonable to me. As others have said, it would certainly further enhance the aura of death that seems to surround Arya, tying into Melisandre's words to her in Season 3.

[protar]

Or Cersei might not receive a trial by combat at all. Robert Strong could be revealed as an abomination, and the citizens of King's Landing could revolt against any and all Lannister's. Point is, you don't know that any of what you're assuming to be true will come to pass. You're speculating just as much as I am, to be perfectly honest.

Well if that were the case Robert Strong would almost certainly need to be in. ;) However I agree that we are both speculating at this point, which is all we can really do when talking about how the last two books will be adapted.

In any case, I'm talking about the show here; not the book series. So to say that I have a "poor understanding of narrative" because I don't feel that their eventual end point in the books will be necessary to show on-screen isn't just rude, it's ignorant of how these two characters have been portrayed thus far in the show. Their rivalry, such as it is, has hardly been a major point of development for Sandor, and we've seen The Mountain all of three times.

So in short, you proposing that they have some major role to play before all is said and done, makes no logical sense to me - within the frame work of the show. Not every sub-plot from the books is going to make the cut going forward, and considering how little material either of these characters have been given since A Storm of Swords, this would be an easy one to cut.

When I said you lacked understanding of narrative (and I'm sorry that was rude) I was talking of the books, as obviously they will play some role in the books or else Martin wouldn't have resurrected them. And while this doesn't necessarily mean that Sandor and Gregor will be kept alive in the show, it does mean that D+D will have to do more than simply cut the characters out. The story will need to be rewritten to accommodate this change and ultimately I'm finding it hard to see how much this could actually streamline the plot. And even if they can streamline some plot lines with this change, it doesn't necessarily mean it will make better television. But again we don't know as we don't have the last two books.

Unless, of course, Sandor & Robert Strong battling it out plays some pivotal role in the fight against the White Walker's... Which I very much doubt. Sure, it provides closure for these characters, but the book series has the time to spend on those types of resolutions (i.e. supporting and/or minor character arcs). For all we know, Lancel could end up dueling with Loras in the show.

Whilst I don't think Sandor and Gregor will play some role in the fight against the Others, it seems rather simplistic to say that a duel between them will merely provide closure for the two of them. What if Sandor and Gregor become pivotal to Sansa's story for example. Whatever happens with the two of them it will not happen in a vacuum.

Point is, some major changes are coming, because it's looking more and more likely that A Feast for Crows & A Dance with Dragons will be condensed into one season of television. So with that in mind, story lines like The Hound becoming a gravedigger on the Quiet Isles aren't likely to pass the 'Does this story line matter in terms of the end goal?' test.

Regardless, it's all speculation. No need to be a dickhead.

Doubtless you're right that more changes will be made, even though I believe that AFFC/ADWD could be comfortably adapted into S5 without any major changes.

Sorry if I came across as rude. But in any case, it would be very easy to include the Hound and Gregor's survival (and in Gregor's case he almost certainly has an immediate role to play in TWOW), and I don't think cutting them would serve to streamline the plot.

[protar]

That is a BIG assumption.

For all we know, GRRM was initially planning to just let the Hound die at the end of ASOS because his purpose in the narrative was done, but then decided that it may be more satisfying for his character arc to survive and give up violence completely, essentially becoming a monk. There are some pretty strong implications in the 'Quiet Isle'-episode that the Hound really IS dead: as in, Sandor Clegane may have survived, but his life of battle is over. I personally believe this also implies that Sandor has given up on vengeance against Gregor and embraced a different way of life. While Gregor Clegane was undoubtedly re-animated by Qyburn and this may still be in the show (they might not have included Qyburn if this wasn't the case), that doesn't automatically imply that Sandor is going to be fighting him. In fact, such typical tropes of rivalries and vendettas that neatly get wrapped up by the end of the story seems like the kind of cliché that Martin wants to avoid: as such, Sandor choosing not to fight Gregor (who arguably isn't Gregor at all anymore) and just quietly disappearing from the narrative seems like a far more powerful way of handling his fate to me.

Taking that into consideration, the Hound truly dying next season doesn't seem unreasonable to me. As others have said, it would certainly further enhance the aura of death that seems to surround Arya, tying into Melisandre's words to her in Season 3.

There is a possibility of course that Sandor retires to a life on the Quiet Isle and it was simply a nice easter egg. In that case - then sure kill of Sandor in the show. However I don't think this gels with Martin's very attentive to detail style of writing. And certainly Robert Strong will be playing an immediate role in TWOW so he certainly can't be cut imo. I mean sure someone else could act as Cersei's champion, but how would that be streamlining anything? There's no logical reason to replace Ungregor with someone else.

[YouSnowNothing]

Sadly, with all the talk about a shrinking cast, a truncated AFFC/ADWD, characters being killed and cut, argument with GRRM over changes... I think that Sunspear and all the Dornish AFFC stuff is gone from the show, along with the Iron Islands and Kingsmoot. The major characters will probably remain, but will only appear in other camps, when they become relevant. So we'll see Yara at Winterfell, Victarion (perhaps merged with Euron) in Meereen, Quentyn in Meereen, Oberyn at Kings Landing, Arianne at Storm's End - but we won't get them in their own isolated subplots. This is what allows the show to be able to feasibly screen a season 5 consisting of almost all AFFC/ADWD. Assuming Bran is stashed in a cave in S4 and not seen afterwards for a few seasons, then S5 has only one more location than S3 (the most sequestered/split of the first 4 seasons), and (if we view Tyrion, Sansa and Cersei as having separate storylines within the same location), less storylines than S3.

The other interesting thing from that interview is the mysterious "characters killed off earlier than the book". A few suggestions:

• Grenn or Pyp seems likely to me, taking the place of Donal Noye in a heroic death in defence of the Wall.
  
• Rorge and Biter seem certain, they'll be gone at the hands of Arya rather than Brienne.
  
• The Clegane Brothers, as others have mentioned. Possible, but I think UnGregor will stay, he's Cersei's superweapon and thus key to getting back into power. Sandor is 50/50, but he's easy to "stash" by leaving his death scene ambiguous. If then they want to/are able to bring Rory McCann back a couple of seasons later they can, if not then they have an easy out. (In terms of his role, I don't think he'll be involved in Cersei's trial, but I do think he will have a role as a member of Sansa's supporting cast. There's no need to shrink that cast if they don't have to, better to leave Sandor's fate ambiguous and see if Rory McCann is available two years down the line. In any case, there's no advantage to making his fate explicit either way. Keep it ambiguous, then they have the option to bring him back or not later down the line.)
  
• Grey Worm? I think he will die in the show, but I think it will be in S5, as a trigger for Dany to marry Hizhdar over Quentyn and sort out the Sons of the Harpy.
  
• Mance Rayder? They may be cutting out the whole Rattleshirt switch and mission in Winterfell, seems likely. Yara can easily take over that role, and they may have trouble keeping a big name like Ciaran Hinds around for a minor subplot running inot S6. (In fact, moving Mel burning Mance to the end of S4 and having Jon watch would be a good way of expressing Jon's internal monologue about not wanting Winterfell's godswood to be burned. Rather than Ghost's return, it's that which triggers Jon to refuse Stannis' offer).
  
• Doran Martell? It's possible, he's not needed if Sunspear is gone. They could introduce Arianne as the new ruler of Dorne.
  
• Jojen Reed? I am a believer of the Jojenpaste theory, and if they make that explicit... technically it's not any earlier in Bran's storyline, but if they move all of Bran's ADWD material up, then it could be considered "earlier than in the books".
  

Other than that, I'm starting to struggle. There's so many deaths already due for S4, it's hard to see who else is surplus to requirements. But if I had to guess now, I think that Grenn, Rorge, Biter and Mance will be dead come S4's end.