[Book spoilers]: GoT producers expect 8 seasons

[MachoGrande]

Am I the only one that thinks Robert Strong is ill fit for TV and will be seen as very cheesy by the general audience?

I'm not really sure what you mean by "cheesy" in this context. But given that the audience "handled" the kiss scene between Jon and Ygritte on the wall as well as Dany's last scene - the epitome of 'cheese' imo - pretty well, I would say that neither the Unsullied nor the showrunners are really averse to cheesiniess. Also, we don't know everything about Robert Strong yet, so I personally would withhold my judgement for now.

[protar]

Tyrion is smart and resourceful enough. The writers can find a way if they need to. And even if Jorah was his only way to get to Mereen, after that he doesn't have much to (really) do. He's a character without a clear motivation, which IMO puts him in danger (for a tv show).

But we haven't got to the next book yet, where Jorah will in all likelyhood be doing something.

Also even if there was some contrived way to get Tyrion to Meereen on his own, why would that be any easier for D+D than having Jorah kidnap him. It's all well and good to say they could do these things but you're ignoring the why. What's the benefit of removing Jorah?

[PatrickStormborn]

Tyrion is smart and resourceful enough. The writers can find a way if they need to. And even if Jorah was his only way to get to Mereen, after that he doesn't have much to (really) do. He's a character without a clear motivation, which IMO puts him in danger (for a tv show).

The showrunners like Jorah IIRC, and were happy when they read ADwD and found that he had more material. I'd be very surprised if they killed him off.

[Lord Elrosir]

Let's not forget that we don't automaticially has to have one season per year. For The Sopranos, sometimes it went almost two years between seasons.

You don't follow the production very closely, do you? The producers have said repeatedly that for Game of Thrones to be viable, there needs to be a season EVERY year. Too many characters to keep in contract.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Unless Cersei's trial involves Clegane vs Clegane, I wouldn't mind if they axed the whole Robert Strong thing. It's a bit too gimmicky, which can be jarring with the otherwise serious content of the series. Plus it cheapens Gregor's death and Oberyn's revenge, and frankly, if they keep resurrecting all these characters believed to be dead, people are just not going to be affected as much by character deaths.

[Newstar]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "cheesy" in this context. But given that the audience "handled" the kiss scene between Jon and Ygritte on the wall as well as Dany's last scene - the epitome of 'cheese' imo - pretty well, I would say that neither the Unsullied nor the showrunners are really averse to cheesiniess. Also, we don't know everything about Robert Strong yet, so I personally would withhold my judgement for now.

I don't know about the original poster, but I think it's less "cheesy" than "campy and silly." And yes, the books have a lot of campy and silly elements, but the showrunners seem to want to tamp that down to avoid comparisons to fantasy TV shows that embrace and wallow in the campy, silly fun. More The Sopranos (a sober, Emmy-nominated Serious Drama), less Xena: Warrior Princess (a show that didn't take itself too seriously). So a lot of the campier, sillier stuff in the books gets scrapped to ensure that the audience remembers that they're watching a Serious Drama and not a more expensive Xena: Warrior Princess. FrankenGregor might qualify as one of those campier, sillier elements.

[protar]

I don't know about the original poster, but I think it's less "cheesy" than "campy and silly." And yes, the books have a lot of campy and silly elements, but the showrunners seem to want to tamp that down to avoid comparisons to fantasy TV shows that embrace and wallow in the campy, silly fun. More The Sopranos (a sober, Emmy-nominated Serious Drama), less Xena: Warrior Princess (a show that didn't take itself too seriously). So a lot of the campier, sillier stuff in the books gets scrapped to ensure that the audience remembers that they're watching a Serious Drama and not a more expensive Xena: Warrior Princess. FrankenGregor might qualify as one of those campier, sillier elements.

Wait you're saying that an 8ft tall, plate-clad, nigh-unstoppable undead warrior is campy? I think you need to get a new dictionary. Out of place in Martin's semi-realistic universe might be a more reasonable argument (though with Wights and Uncat running around still fairly ridiculous.).

I think this link is a fairly accurate representation of your arguments against Robert Strong:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScifiGhetto

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Wait you're saying that an 8ft tall, plate-clad, nigh-unstoppable undead warrior is campy? I think you need to get a new dictionary. Out of place in Martin's semi-realistic universe might be a more reasonable argument (though with Wights and Uncat running around still fairly ridiculous.).

I think this link is a fairly accurate representation of your arguments against Robert Strong:

http://tvtropes.org/...ain/ScifiGhetto

Campy when applied to art or production usually means ridiculously exaggerated/unreal, in which case I would agree, UnGregor is pretty campy. My thoughts when reading it was..."Uhh, Why?" UnCat and Wights at least made sense within the narrative and had precedence. UnGregor came out of nowhere and is just nonsensical if he's actually allowed to defend Cersei without anyone thinking "Who the fuck is this guy?" since we know no one really rivals Gregor's size in the entire 7K and he's supposed to be dead.

[protar]

Campy when applied to art or production usually means ridiculously exaggerated/unreal, in which case I would agree, UnGregor is pretty campy. My thoughts when reading it was..."Uhh, Why?" UnCat and Wights at least made sense within the narrative and had precedence. UnGregor came out of nowhere and is just nonsensical if he's actually allowed to defend Cersei without anyone thinking "Who the fuck is this guy?" since we know no one really rivals Gregor's size in the entire 7K and he's supposed to be dead.

So..I was right then? It's the prejudiced idea that fantasy elements prevent a work from being serious. Which of course is wrong.

Ungregor has plenty of precedent. Resurrection and the Undead have been a part of this series since Game of Thrones, chapter 1 and much was made of Qyburn practicing necromancy. And maybe you need to reread the epilogue of ADWD? Kevan and others rightly wonder who Robert Strong is and seem to be close to hitting the mark. As TWOW isn't out yet, you have know idea whether there'll be any fallout of from these speculations so it's too premature to criticise Martin for that.

[jentario]

I imagine it will look somewhat like this:

Season 5: ADWD + AFFC (up to the point in ADWD that outpaces AFFC)

Season 6: ADWD + TWOW (first quarter, just to fill up plot in a number of characters' arcs)

Season 7: TWOW

Season 8: ADOS

[PatrickStormborn]

Unless Cersei's trial involves Clegane vs Clegane, I wouldn't mind if they axed the whole Robert Strong thing. It's a bit too gimmicky, which can be jarring with the otherwise serious content of the series. Plus it cheapens Gregor's death and Oberyn's revenge, and frankly, if they keep resurrecting all these characters believed to be dead, people are just not going to be affected as much by character deaths.

That's part of the point. Oberyn manages to kill Gregor, but Cersei brings him back to "life" and essentially refuses to even give the Martells one moment of vengeance.

The way Cersei re-uses Gregor (Tywin's "mad dog") is symbolically significant IMO. Even though Tywin's "mad dog" was defeated, Cersei rebuilds him to be far more powerful than he was before, and in the process rejects Dorne's vengeance.

But I don't think it will make viewers less affected by character deaths. The crucial difference between other resurrections and Gregor's resurrection is that he isn't - as far as we are aware - actually Gregor Clegane brought back to life. He's just Gregor's body (he might not even have Gregor's head!).

I don't know about the original poster, but I think it's less "cheesy" than "campy and silly." And yes, the books have a lot of campy and silly elements, but the showrunners seem to want to tamp that down to avoid comparisons to fantasy TV shows that embrace and wallow in the campy, silly fun. More The Sopranos (a sober, Emmy-nominated Serious Drama), less Xena: Warrior Princess (a show that didn't take itself too seriously). So a lot of the campier, sillier stuff in the books gets scrapped to ensure that the audience remembers that they're watching a Serious Drama and not a more expensive Xena: Warrior Princess. FrankenGregor might qualify as one of those campier, sillier elements.

From what I can tell, the showrunners have simply added the amount of "campy and silly" moments: Pod's magic dick, Pyat Pree's ability to multiply himself, Dany crowdsurfing, etc.

The books are actually far more "sober".

[Joyful Union]

From what I can tell, the showrunners have simply added the amount of "campy and silly" moments: Pod's magic dick, Pyat Pree's ability to multiply himself, Dany crowdsurfing, etc.

The books are actually far more "sober".

I would add the Spice King to that list.

But I disagree otherwise. I'd say the books are more silly and camp. Patchface for example, is campier than anything on the show. The fools in general are pretty camp, and they're all cut. Shagwell is kind of campy. But also the rainbow guard, the bizzare soldiers among the Yunkai like the stilt men, Tormund's endless member jokes. The mammoths are kind of campy, though they might be included on the show.

Also, as Khal below has mentioned, Daario's appearence and Vargo Hoat are pretty campy.

[Khal Porno]

From what I can tell, the showrunners have simply added the amount of "campy and silly" moments: Pod's magic dick, Pyat Pree's ability to multiply himself, Dany crowdsurfing, etc.

The books are actually far more "sober".

That depends entirely on your point of view. Pod the Sex God was a dumb joke and yes, kind of silly, but I wouldn't call it "campy." I thought Pyat Pree duplicating himself (which I figured was an illusion, not making actual Multiple Man-style duplicates) was nifty, and a good way of visually illustrating the abilities of the Warlocks. The "crowdsurfing" moment when the freed slaves first pick up Dany was kind of weird, although thankfully it was over quickly once she sat up (it would have been better if they lifted her up this way), but I also wouldn't call it "campy," nor did it totally destroy the tone of the series as you are suggesting. The Adam West Batman series is "campy."

As Mr. Union said, there are more examples of straight-up camp in the novels (Vargo Hoat, Daario, etc.). That's not to say those things are bad or worse than the show, just that your "the books are more sober" comparison isn't accurate.

EDIT: I didn't think the reanimated Ser Gregor was at all silly, nor does it cheapen the novels/show or make them less serious. Personally I found it to be disturbing and horrific, and I'm sure that's how it will be portrayed in the show.

[Stark Revenge]

I've heard good things about this reading order and intend to use it myself in my current reread:

http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for-a

Yeah I'm going to read it this way once I get to there.

Let's not forget that we don't automaticially has to have one season per year. For The Sopranos, sometimes it went almost two years between seasons.

Eh I doubt it, popularity is too high and HBO wants to ride that momentum as much as they can. From a reader's perspective I'm kinda torn. If they did this it would give GRRM more time to finish TWOW. However it would take away the pressure for him to finish and who knows how long he will take if left to his own devices.

[PatrickStormborn]

I would add the Spice King to that list.

But I disagree otherwise. I'd say the books are more silly and camp. Patchface for example, is campier than anything on the show. The fools in general are pretty camp, and they're all cut. Shagwell is kind of campy. But also the rainbow guard, the bizzare soldiers among the Yunkai like the stilt men, Tormund's endless member jokes. The mammoths are kind of campy, though they might be included on the show.

Also, as Khal below has mentioned, Daario's appearence and Vargo Hoat are pretty campy.

I agree that there are campy moments in the books (although the fools are just a part of Medieval culture). However, my point was that the show is also ADDING further "campy" moments, and they've also added a lot of extremely cringeworthy moments ("I invoke su-mai!!!" outside the walls of Qarth was quite possibly the worst thing I've ever heard).

But regardless, I cannot understand how Gregor's faux-resurrection is campy. It's chilling and horrifying and perfectly demonstrates Cersei's ruthlessness.

ETA:

Eh I doubt it, popularity is too high and HBO wants to ride that momentum as much as they can. From a reader's perspective I'm kinda torn. If they did this it would give GRRM more time to finish TWOW. However it would take away the pressure for him to finish and who knows how long he will take if left to his own devices.

Yeah, the way the show has been structured with cliffhangers and ~shocking moments~ has contributed towards making this show rely on its own hype. Once that hype diminishes (and it eventually will, regardless of how shocking it continues to be), the show is in trouble. With the great moments of season four, the hype should carry the show all the way to the best moments of ADwD which will hopefully maintain the hype. It depends on what material they include in season four, however, and whether they allow the show to evolve.

[Khal Porno]

Yeah I'm going to read it this way once I get to there.

Eh I doubt it, popularity is too high and HBO wants to ride that momentum as much as they can. From a reader's perspective I'm kinda torn. If they did this it would give GRRM more time to finish TWOW. However it would take away the pressure for him to finish and who knows how long he will take if left to his own devices.

The onus is on Martin to finish the books ahead of the show, if he feels that is necessary. Not on the creators of the show to allow him to finish the books first. Their job is to make a profitable television show, not service fans of the books who don't want to be spoiled.

[Newstar]

But regardless, I cannot understand how Gregor's faux-resurrection is campy. It's chilling and horrifying and perfectly demonstrates Cersei's ruthlessness.

The faux-resurrection itself? Sure. The seven-foot helmeted, quite possibly headless dude in Faith warrior drag going by Ser Robert Strong? That's pure camp. That's some Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow realness right there, and Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow was wall to wall camp. Creepy and horrifying, sure, but campy first and foremost. Ser Robert Strong gives me the same feeling.

On a related note, something can be creepy, even chilling, and campy. Tim Burton's movies make that pretty clear. They are silly and campy through and through (and I say that with love, since Beetlejuice is one of my favourite movies), but damned if they don't have some creepy, horrifying moments. So saying "Ser Robert Strong couldn't possibly come across as campy because I find him scary" isn't really much of an argument to me. One doesn't rule out the other. The Martians in Mars Attacks! were terrifying to me, but that did not make them one iota less campy.

Since high fantasy is a genre that lends itself pretty easily to campy excess (Ridiculously elaborate costumes! Vampy sex priestesses! Inter-queen Dynasty-style catfights over who's prettier!), I think GRRM is constantly fighting a battle to make sure the campy silliness doesn't overwhelm the story he's trying to tell, or that he balances it with other elements. Sometimes, he loses the battle. I think Vargo Hoat, Daario Naharis, Patchface, and yes, Ser Robert Strong represent points where he lost the battle. Other characters, Cersei for one, come perilously close to pure camp territory as well.

The onus is on Martin to finish the books ahead of the show, if he feels that is necessary. Not on the creators of the show to allow him to finish the books first. Their job is to make a profitable television show, not service fans of the books who don't want to be spoiled.

Agreed. If GRRM doesn't want the show to catch up with the books, well, he knows what to do.

[~No One~]

The onus is on Martin to finish the books ahead of the show, if he feels that is necessary. Not on the creators of the show to allow him to finish the books first. Their job is to make a profitable television show, not service fans of the books who don't want to be spoiled.

Yes to this.

The show and the books have become two totally separate entities. Obviously the books are the source material, but in all likelihood, D&D will have at least a copy of tWOW unpublished manuscript for writing their season 6 scripts in 2015.

What happens w.r.t ADOS is anyone's guess. But at least D&D are fantastic writers...I think they could write their own final season knowing broad strokes, and that would be just fine.

[Andrés Garcia]

George wants to finish the story in two more books, each with a page count of about 1500. He's said he's written about 400 pages for TWOW, but 200 of those were carried over from ADWD. This means that he's written 200 out of 2800 pages these past two years. I don't know if I can hold off on watching the television show for as long as it takes him to finish it all. After all, I might have my own holodeck by then and will want to participate in some of the sex scenes HBO has coming up.

[Chickren]

I immediately thought of Bronn when they talked about killing characters who are alive in the books.