[Book spoilers]: GoT producers expect 8 seasons

[Khal-a-bunga]

At this point, anyone who is going to die in season four has probably known about it for a little while already, since filming is set to start in about a week or so. We know that Ygritte, Joffrey, Shae, Tywin, The Red Viper, Balon, Beric (I don't think we've seen the last of him quite yet), and Lysa Arryn are all guaranteed to bite it, and I think it's a safe bet to say that a few of the more incidental cast members (such a Rorge, Biter, etc.) are also going to meet their ends next year. Which makes sense, considering that D&D are taking the (correct, if you ask me) view that having too many characters could overwhelm the entire enterprise for non-readers, and also taking into consideration that the AFfC & ADwD material is going to introduce a fair number of new characters and plot lines that I don't think can be easily cut or combined (Euron, Victarion, Doran, Arianne, Jon Connington, and Aegon chief among them, not to mention the various minor and supporting roles). Still, I think season three may represent the largest the cast gets, which is achievable with some clever adaptation.

Working to combine disparate story lines is also something I think they're focused on right now, given that they've sent Yara to find Theon. I don't know that they'll quite make it by the end of next season, but by the fifth season the story line in the north may be significantly more intertwined than it is in the novels, with the characters from the Wall, the wildlings, Stannis, Theon & Yara, the Bolton's & Frey's, and Davos, Rickon & Osha all interacting in dissecting story lines (almost like a more geographically distanced version of King's Landing, in terms of how things are presented). That would leave the intrigue in King's Landing as the second major story line, and the characters traveling towards Dany (encompassing her story and those of Tyrion & Victarion) as the third major plot thread. Which would leave Arya and (possibly) Sam as the only two truly segregated plot lines. I expect that Arya will begin and end her training with the Faceless Men all in one season (the fifth), so depending on how things play out (and given Melisandre's line in the sixth episode of this season), she could end up joining the northern story line by the time the sixth season rolls around.

Because the number of characters is an issue that's secondary to the number of plot , I think. Consolidating as many of the characters as is feasible goes a long way towards giving them some breathing room when it comes to the structuring and formatting of the seasons. But, uh, yeah... Some interesting ideas and discussion in this thread.

[binga]

Realistically speaking AFFC/ADWD should be about two seasons, there is plenty of material to fill within it. David and Dan should be praised for adapting such difficult material and making it popular. However they have taken too many liberties with the source material where there was no need. They have butchered a lot of Jon Snow's story arc for example. 10 episodes is clearly not a lot, people barely get anytime to do anything within scenes. Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring should each be 2 seasons, that is a total of 4 seasons for that material. This show should be ten seasons long in total. It is the only way to give Martin enough time to complete it. Even then he may not get it done in time. David and Dan should leave by season 8, they can even leave earlier if they would like but let the story go on. Sometimes we shouldn't butcher away at art, let it take its course.

[Newstar]

This show should be ten seasons long in total.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Even eight seasons is pushing it, really.

[Ten seasons] is the only way to give Martin enough time to complete it. Even then he may not get it done in time.

But if you yourself acknowledge that even ten seasons wouldn't necessarily be enough time to complete the series, why should they drag it out for two more seasons for GRRM's benefit, if he can't even be relied upon to complete it within that time period?

Assuming indefinite renewals, I think the writers will probably be okay for TWOW if GRRM picks up the pace, but ADOS is not going to be finished in time, even on an eight-season schedule. However, even assuming two seasons are needed for ADOS, D&D have three more seasons to get through (4, 5 and 6) before ADOS gets to be an issue. Assuming eight seasons and ADOS being needed for Season 7 and 8, the writers have until January 2016 (when they start writing the scripts for what will be Season 7, from what I can tell from the production schedule information) before the lack of ADOS is going to be a problem. That's quite a ways away.

And really, if the writers do have to go completely off-book for ADOS because it isn't out yet, except for maybe a rough plotline from GRRM, that won't be much of a departure for them. I'm pretty sure there are more non-book scenes than book scenes in the show these days, and the writers have introduced non-book plots as well: the Gendry/Melisandre arc, the Theon/Ramsay arc, the Loras/Cersei engagement, etc. etc. Creating a whole season won't be that much of a stretch for them considering just how much non-book material is already in the series.

We know that Ygritte, Joffrey, Shae, Tywin, The Red Viper, Balon, Beric (I don't think we've seen the last of him quite yet), and Lysa Arryn are all guaranteed to bite it,

Yup. Man, ASOS is a bloodbath, isn't it? It makes the lack of major character deaths in AFFC/ADWD even more striking (although I fully expect TWOW is going to have a much higher body count than ASOS).

Consolidating as many of the characters as is feasible goes a long way towards giving them some breathing room when it comes to the structuring and formatting of the seasons.

I suspect that with all the consolidation/streamlining that is happening and will probably be ramped when the writers hit AFFC/ADWD material, the TV show post-Season 3 will wind up looking a lot like what the books would have looked like with some decent editing.

[oakenhelm]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "cheesy" in this context. But given that the audience "handled" the kiss scene between Jon and Ygritte on the wall as well as Dany's last scene - the epitome of 'cheese' imo - pretty well, I would say that neither the Unsullied nor the showrunners are really averse to cheesiniess. Also, we don't know everything about Robert Strong yet, so I personally would withhold my judgement for now.

since a couple other posters wanted a dictionary definition :D

Robert Strong is cheesy to me in the sense of being trite, banal and of inferior quality (the free dictionary) compared to how Martin treated his other resurrections.

Or contrived and lacking subtlety (Wikipedia). example: Frankengregor

With wights, people can understand them as zombies. It's not so ridiculous.

With the kiss of life, there is subtlety and something mysterious and intriguing about it. Oh and they have their heads still lol

Its subjective I understand. But I rolled my eyes when I read it.

[Pinkie Baelish]

But regardless, I cannot understand how Gregor's faux-resurrection is campy. It's chilling and horrifying and perfectly demonstrates Cersei's ruthlessness.

I just think it's a bit silly how no one in the books seems to suspect that Robert Strong is something otherworldly, plus his characteristics(taking a vow of silence, never eating or drinking) are too suspicious for other characters to not delve further into. As for demonstrating Cersei's ruthlessness, there are better examples that illustrate this(sending Falyse to Qyburn). Robert Strong, I think, is supposed to illustrate just how much of a mad scientist Qyburn is.

But yeah, it just bugs me how nobody seems to catch on to the fact that after Gregor disappears into the Red Keep to be treated after Qyburn and supposedly dies, another 8 foot behemoth appears out of nowhere that's built exactly like Gregor. Qyburn's disgraced past is not a close-kept secret IIRC.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Robert Strong is kind of Scooby Doo villain-ish, now that I think about it. I mean, what he is isn't a laughing matter (it's pretty terrifying, actually), or outside the realm of the world Martin has created (given it's not the first time someone has been resurrected, though I don't like the idea that he doesn't have a head, for some reason), but it's like every other character has to become a complete moron in order for it to make sense why no one has question who - or what - Robert Strong actually is. Maybe this is referenced in the book, and I'm not just remembering it. I'm planning on re-reading the last two books in the series (though I'm still undecided if I'm going to read them as published, or try a combined reading list), as my memory has grown pretty hazy on some of the finer details contained in them.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Robert Strong is kind of Scooby Doo villain-ish

Calling it now: The Hound returns and exposes Robert Strong by removing his helmet, revealing Frankengregor. Qyburn then yells out "and I would have gotten away with it if weren't for you meddling septons and your dog!(points at the Hound)" before scuttling off into the darkness.

[kecsek]

While I don't like the whole unGregor thing, the other characters suspect what he is. In the epilogue Kevan clearly has an idea who he is, and in the council meeting IIRC Tyrell and/or Tarly expresses their doubts as well. I think it's more like they need someone to win Cersei's trial and they just ignore RS's identity

[The Mountain That Posts]

Ygritte isn't going to die.

She's signed on for three more seasons, and Kit Harrington is dating Rose Leslie in real life as well. Ygritte is going to remain alive and Val is going to be merged into Ygritte, hence furthering this show and it's tr00 love cliches.

Also, to the person on page 1 who was like THERE WAS NO DANCE WITH DRAGONS IN BOOK 5 - you do realize "A Dance with Dragons" isn't referring to war, but rather the dragons themselves? About Dany and Aegon dancing about juggling the plot, and about how countless suitors and advisers dance around them as well. I swear, that's pretty simple. Probably the hardest title to explain of the seven, but it still makes sense,

[The_Iron_Captain]

Ygritte isn't going to die.

She's signed on for three more seasons

Of course she is going to die. What is your source on her being signed on for three more seasons?

[The Mountain That Posts]

Of course she is going to die. What is your source on her being signed on for three more seasons?

Read it in another thread. Honestly, I didn't care enough to follow up on it.

But would it really surprise anybody for HBO at this point to do this?

[Khal-a-bunga]

Of course she is going to die. What is your source on her being signed on for three more seasons?

This. I'd like to know as well, because it doesn't even make sense that they would let her live, considering how pivotal her death is in Jon's development.

EDIT:

Read it in another thread. Honestly, I didn't care enough to follow up on it.

But would it really surprise anybody for HBO at this point to do this?

Right. Makes total sense.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Read it in another thread. Honestly, I didn't care enough to follow up on it.

But would it really surprise anybody for HBO at this point to do this?

Ygritte's death is far too much of a cheesy TV moment for the show to pass up. It's also an important stepping stone in Jon's character, as she was his first love. Besides, Stannis wouldn't offer to unite the wildlings and the NW by marrying Jon to one of Mance's foot soldiers.

[Lurtz of Orthanc]

Robert Strong is kind of Scooby Doo villain-ish, now that I think about it. I mean, what he is isn't a laughing matter (it's pretty terrifying, actually), or outside the realm of the world Martin has created (given it's not the first time someone has been resurrected, though I don't like the idea that he doesn't have a head, for some reason), but it's like every other character has to become a complete moron in order for it to make sense why no one has question who - or what - Robert Strong actually is. Maybe this is referenced in the book, and I'm not just remembering it. I'm planning on re-reading the last two books in the series (though I'm still undecided if I'm going to read them as published, or try a combined reading list), as my memory has grown pretty hazy on some of the finer details contained in them.

It's implied that most of the higher-ups have an inkling who it is, but they don't want to question it. Also, Ser Robert Strong just hasn't been that visible outside of the Red Keep - staying inside Kingsgaurd quarters and with Tommen, not parading around the streets.

And to the 10 seasons guy earlier this page, the show does not need to be - nor can it be - that long.

[Khal-a-bunga]

It's implied that most of the higher-ups have an inkling who it is, but they don't want to question it. Also, Ser Robert Strong just hasn't been that visible outside of the Red Keep - staying inside Kingsgaurd quarters and with Tommen, not parading around the streets.

Yeah, that does make sense. I still don't understand how they could hope to keep it a secret, though. I mean, it's not like there is an abundance of men the size of The Mountain in Westeros, so it's not a difficult conclusion to draw. All Margaery would have to do is say something about the champion's removing their helmets before the battle, and the gig is up.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

So..I was right then? It's the prejudiced idea that fantasy elements prevent a work from being serious. Which of course is wrong.

Ungregor has plenty of precedent. Resurrection and the Undead have been a part of this series since Game of Thrones, chapter 1 and much was made of Qyburn practicing necromancy. And maybe you need to reread the epilogue of ADWD? Kevan and others rightly wonder who Robert Strong is and seem to be close to hitting the mark. As TWOW isn't out yet, you have know idea whether there'll be any fallout of from these speculations so it's too premature to criticise Martin for that.

There's no precedence that anyone can form a Frankenstein's monster before UnGregor. Qyburn's experiments have only one payoff and that's to introduce a seemingly stupid take on a character that should've just died, but instead introduces another random complication to prolong another overextended story.

And whether people will pick up on who/what Robert Strong is produces another prolonged version of Cersei-is-fucked. Why not just have the Faith take her down for her rather obvious crimes without some freak show supporter? I understand that we don't know yet what happens in TWoW but what can this possibly do to enhance the story besides make it more campy and unnecessarily complicated? If Robert Strong successfully defends her then it's quite possibly the stupidest twist to a plot line in the entire series.

[Werthead]

While I obviously haven't seen their contracts, deals like that tend to specify the numbers of episodes. Otherwise you could just declare arbitrarily that the next season will consist of 50 episodes spread over 5 years.

Contracts specify years of production. The Sopranos worked because they wrote and filmed the double-length season in one go, and then showed the two halves a year apart. So GoT can do the same, but only by filming the last two seasons back-to-back. Given that the production requirements and complications on Sopranos (and Oz, which did the same thing) are utterly dwarfed by those for GoT, we can assume the same thing won't happen for GoT. They simply don't have time to make two seasons back-to-back.

Ygritte's death is far too much of a cheesy TV moment for the show to pass up. It's also an important stepping stone in Jon's character, as she was his first love. Besides, Stannis wouldn't offer to unite the wildlings and the NW by marrying Jon to one of Mance's foot soldiers.

Interesting. If they went down that route - and I don't think they will - but they could contrast it with Robb: Jon has to marry someone other than his love and does so, and Ygritte has to deal (and maybe kill her off later, during the coup perhaps?). It could show that Jon is a more mature and competent commander than Robb.

I don't think they will do that, but there is some gristle for the mill in that approach if they do.

[Rashtibram]

Ygritte isn't going to die.

She's signed on for three more seasons, and Kit Harrington is dating Rose Leslie in real life as well. Ygritte is going to remain alive and Val is going to be merged into Ygritte, hence furthering this show and it's tr00 love cliches.

That would completely destroy one of the only interesting arcs in AFFC/ADWD. How is Ygritte supposed to take Val's place? She's Jon's girlfriend!!!! The Night's Watch, not to mention Stannis, would never elect Jon as LC if he was keeping his Wildling girlfriend around; and that's not to mention that Ygritte dying is a major turning point in Jon's character development! There's no reason why they would do this, and it would completely ruin Jon's TV character. While his story hasn't been treated with the most care in recent seasons, I see no reason why they would just change an extremely important part of the books, which in itself they can embroider with true-love-cliches, just so Kit doesn't have to say goodbye to Rose.

[Mr Fixit]

Interesting. If they went down that route - and I don't think they will - but they could contrast it with Robb: Jon has to marry someone other than his love and does so, and Ygritte has to deal (and maybe kill her off later, during the coup perhaps?). It could show that Jon is a more mature and competent commander than Robb.

I don't think they will do that, but there is some gristle for the mill in that approach if they do.

Gods save me from fan sites if that should happen.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Interesting. If they went down that route - and I don't think they will - but they could contrast it with Robb: Jon has to marry someone other than his love and does so, and Ygritte has to deal (and maybe kill her off later, during the coup perhaps?). It could show that Jon is a more mature and competent commander than Robb.

I don't think they will do that, but there is some gristle for the mill in that approach if they do.

I don't think they'll do that, simply because it's a bit too similar to what they're doing with Tyrion and Shae right now. Ygritte has a pretty Hollywood-esque death, so it doesn't make much sense as to why they wouldn't use it. Plus, casting Val gives them a chance to keep their consistent inflow of attractive female characters :P