Valyrian Swords and Valyrian Blood

[A Duke]

The only things we know for sure is that they did not hold it ~400 years ago because it was new. After that, for all we know Ned is the first Stark to wield it. That would be odd, though acquiring it during Robert's Rebellion is slightly possible I suppose. Point is that there is no confirmation that I know of that shows Rickard or his predecessors wielding it. No reference to Artos picking it up when his brother fell vs. the Wildlings (and this would've been ~100 years ago at most).

There is no reason to believe that the ancient Starks carried Ice to battle. In fact, if I remember correctly, we can't be certain Ned himself did. All we know is that he carried it into a dual. correct me if I am wrong.

Ice's primary use could be just a symbol of Stark power, carried around in court, like in KL.

This could explain how it survived in this hands for so long, despite the many conflicts.

[A Duke]

Fine - that we know of, they have no connection to Targaryens or Valyria prior to the conquest. The only fact we know here is that Ice is 400 years old.

The only connection we know the Lannisters had to Valyria is that they got the sword somehow before the doom. beside that little detail there is no known connection either. Still they managed to acquire the sword, Starks could have gotten it the same way.

[RumHam]

There is no reason to believe that the ancient Starks carried Ice to battle. In fact, if I remember correctly, we can't be certain Ned himself did. All we know is that he carried it into a dual. correct me if I am wrong.

Ice's primary use could be just a symbol of Stark power, carried around in court, like in KL.

This could explain how it survived in this hands for so long, despite the many conflicts.

You are correct, but what duel are you referring to? I can't recall him ever using Ice except to execute Gared. In the skirmish where Jory dies Ned uses a longsword.

[A Duke]

You are correct, but what duel are you referring to? I can't recall him ever using Ice except to execute Gared. In the skirmish where Jory dies Ned uses a longsword.

It's bad phrasing on my part, I meant ToJ (he used it there, right?). I am not really sure how to call it, it's not really a battle since it's just a few men, but not a dual either.

[RumHam]

It's bad phrasing on my part, I meant ToJ (he used it there, right?). I am not really sure how to call it, it's not really a battle since it's just a few men, but not a dual either.

We don't know that he used it there. Some people might argue "how could he stand against Dawn without Valyrian steel." I'd say that using a greatsword when you're used to a longsword would put you at a huge disadvantage (if he had Ice at that point, he had only recently acquired it.)

[A Duke]

We don't know that he used it there. Some people might argue "how could he stand against Dawn without Valyrian steel." I'd say that using a greatsword when you're used to a longsword would put you at a huge disadvantage (if he had Ice at that point, he had only recently acquired it.)

Thanks, I wasn't certain which way it was.

[Muggle]

Valyrians traded with westeros before there fall.

Some of the "overestimated" swords and other weps count can easily be explained by the maesters buying them to reforge them into links in there chains.

I would think the the maesters are a decently wealthy organization.

[Toccs]

Some of the "overestimated" swords and other weps count can easily be explained by the maesters buying them to reforge them into links in there chains.

I don't think that the pre-Doom Maester's would need to buy swords in order to melt them down for their chain links. When Valyria was around I would bet they exported it in ingots.

[History of Westeros]

When Valyria was around I would bet they exported it in ingots.

Is the opposite of "ingot" "outgot"? or "inlost"? :)

[The Iron Banker]

I don't think that the pre-Doom Maester's would need to buy swords in order to melt them down for their chain links. When Valyria was around I would bet they exported it in ingots.

Exactly there was probably plenty of valyrian steel at the time

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

I always read the story of the Lannisters not having a great sword as just a good piece of character writing by GRRM...I think its fitting that the wealthiest family that for the most part can do what it wants, is brought a little low by the fact that they don't have a VS sword for their family. It's like the rich kid who has almost every toy, but is jealous of the boy having fun with his only toy, a rubber ball.

When readers first read these books and before Wiki's, forums, and over analyzed theories, your first time reading the books puts House Stark as the protagonists and House Lannister as the antagonists - at least on the surface.

So I always just thought it worked well on the part of GRRM in his description of the Lannisters that despite being so wealthy and powerful, they're still bitter and jealous that they don't have this sweet honor of owning a VS sword.

[Toccs]

Is the opposite of "ingot" "outgot"? or "inlost"? :)

Outlost, the only one you didn't mention :P

When readers first read these books and before Wiki's, forums, and over analyzed theories, your first time reading the books puts House Stark as the protagonists and House Lannister as the antagonists - at least on the surface.

I don't know about that, even the most cursory reading of the story has the situation much more grey then that by the end of the second book.

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

Outlost, the only one you didn't mention :P

I don't know about that, even the most cursory reading of the story has the situation much more grey then that by the end of the second book.

The point is you still don't like House Lannister in any way besides maybe Tyrion (and his plot as well as Jamie's does a pretty good job of making readers more sympathetic to Lannisters)...and you definitely are huuuuugely pro-Stark after the beginning.

[Slender Aimry Hill]

Hightower have Vigilance, we now know from the novella...

[History of Westeros]

Hightower have Vigilance, we now know from the novella...

Yes, and perhaps House Roxton still has Orphan Maker. If not, I wonder who does...

[illrede]

Maybe they're (Valyrian steel goods) just the proverbial glass beads, iron hoes and copper kettles of trade imbalance apocrypha?

You know, if Europe had up and exploded a few centuries back- imposing scarcity through locking in the population size of the good in question. But at the time, Andals with Valyrian steel would be like contemporary Wildlings with iron and steel, and come by in in the same way. Suppose it's now three hundred years since the last influx of iron and steel for the wildlings- I think it would look fairly similar to the Seven Kingdoms and Valyrian steel, daggers are luxury items, swords are clan talismans, chain links are totem jewelry, a really good Thenn metalworker can shape the stuff.