Harlaw's Book Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I think the Defiance of Duskendale references may foreshadow events at the Wall following Jon's stabbing. At Duskendale the king's army, led by Tywin, was larger and could've taken Duskendale at any time but couldn't without risking the king's life. At the Wall, the Wildings outnumber Marsh supporters, but with Jon incapacitated and probably imprisoned (most likely in the meat storage), the Wildings probably won't be able to do much. The defiance ended when Ser Barristan went undercover and rescued Aerys. I think the Barristan analogue at the Wall will be Val. Besides the bridal symbolism, Val wearing white could also foreshadow performing the role of a Kingsguard. Also GRRM seems to emphasizing that she has the same skill that Barristan needed and used to rescue Aerys --stealth. One of the first things we learn about Val is that she stole Jarl. Her finding Tormund when NW rangers couldn't demonstrates her ability to evade enemies and locate her target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordofthemornin Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Aryas chapter in AGOT when she is in the dungeon and hears Varys & Illyrio talking, at the end of the chapter Arya asks "What if a wizard is sent to kill him?" to which Desmond replies "wizards die the same as other men once you cut their heads off." Now this could be foreshadowing of Ned losing his head as Arya is talking about him, but could it also be a foreshadowing of Varys or even Illyrio's demise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Aryas chapter in AGOT when she is in the dungeon and hears Varys & Illyrio talking, at the end of the chapter Arya asks "What if a wizard is sent to kill him?" to which Desmond replies "wizards die the same as other men once you cut their heads off." Now this could be foreshadowing of Ned losing his head as Arya is talking about him, but could it also be a foreshadowing of Varys or even Illyrio's demise? I think Melisandre is a likely option also, seeing that it is highly probable that Jon and Arya will meet, and Mel is currently with Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I think Melisandre is a likely option also, seeing that it is highly probable that Jon and Arya will meet, and Mel is currently with Jon. To top that Thoros is also known as the red wizard, so I think that term could also apply to Mel. If not him, then Val. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I think Melisandre is a likely option also, seeing that it is highly probable that Jon and Arya will meet, and Mel is currently with Jon. that quote youre referring to re mel reminds me of this one regarding mel... "even demons can be killed by cold iron, the singers say." along side "wizards die the same as other men once you cut their heads off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoalover1956 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 [sansa] shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard. This was in one of Sansa's nightmares about the riot and it features all the people who failed to save her. Or course Ned and Lady couldn't do anything for her. It foreshadowed Dontos and Robb failing to save her, but the one that really stood out to me was Ser Loras. Unlike the others, she didn't know him well at the time, she just remembered a handsome well born knight knight, which is the kind of thing from the songs that she loved so much. The mention of Loras foreshadows the Tyrell's plan to take her to Highgarden failing. The mention of heroes from songs likely means that Sansa will not have the kind of life she dreamed of and her knight in shining armor will never come. I wonder if this means something regarding her engagement to Harry the Heir. Since no one came to save her in the dream, I hope it means that in end Sansa will stop waiting for a hero and save herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 "even demons can be killed by cold iron, the singers say." Could that be Tyrion the imp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coil Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Aryas chapter in AGOT when she is in the dungeon and hears Varys & Illyrio talking, at the end of the chapter Arya asks "What if a wizard is sent to kill him?" to which Desmond replies "wizards die the same as other men once you cut their heads off." Now this could be foreshadowing of Ned losing his head as Arya is talking about him, but could it also be a foreshadowing of Varys or even Illyrio's demise? I think it's about Varys since I believe both him and Littlefinger will lose their heads to then become "brothers on the wall", like they joke about on a small council meeting in ACoK. I already read here that there's a sort of theme between Arya/Varys and the dynamic cat/mouse (birds were once called rats, and both are cat's preys, your citation and iirc there was something else. LF's sigil is the titan's head, Sansa is dreamt of slaying a giant (not of poisoning, unless someone who knows english better than me corrects me I guess that the verb "to slay" implies "cutting the body/killing with a sharp weapon) and when she "kills" Sweetrobin's doll she rips its head off and sticks it to a snow wall. LF even joke that some Starks have already done it in the past... Plus, Tyrion recalls his father saying something among the likes of "these two's heads should be sticked to the Red Keep's walls". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooseman Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 With a long hooked blade, he sliced me [Varys] root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched the him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke. Sam Stoop's wife says she [Lady Rohanne Webber] sold her babes unborn to the Lord of the Seven Hells, so he'd teach her his black arts. This is Egg talking about Lady Webber, whose sigil is a spider. Varys is referred to as the Spider, and his castration was in a way, selling his babes unborn with the seven hells imagery tied to the burning brazier. Varys actually wasn't castrated by force but sold his manhood and ability to reproduce as the price to pay for him to learn the black arts of sorcery. I love it! Always suspected, that Varys isn't truthful about his hate for magic. I also find it noteworthy, that the other Master of Whisperers who had a spy network as successful as Varys, Bloodraven, most likely used sorcery and glamours himself. Also, in AGOT, GRRM used a lot of quite explicit foreshadowing. On the surface, Illyrio calling Varys a "sorcerer" just looks like "You're so talented at what you do that one could call it magic, figuratively" but it also might be a hint, that he is indeed a true sorcerer. It just doesn't seem like a word that Martin would throw around carelessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I love it! Always suspected, that Varys isn't truthful about his hate for magic. I also find it noteworthy, that the other Master of Whisperers who had a spy network as successful as Varys, Bloodraven, most likely used sorcery and glamours himself. Also, in AGOT, GRRM used a lot of quite explicit foreshadowing. On the surface, Illyrio calling Varys a "sorcerer" just looks like "You're so talented at what you do that one could call it magic, figuratively" but it also might be a hint, that he is indeed a true sorcerer. It just doesn't seem like a word that Martin would throw around carelessly. I also was thinking about the parallel between Bloodraven and Varys as the master of whisperers. They both used sorcery and glamour to change their appearances. Varys calls his agents little birds. Bloodrave most probably used ravens for the same purpose. They noth use nicknames (Spider, Bloodraven) and their original names are rarely used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 that quote youre referring to re mel reminds me of this one regarding mel... "even demons can be killed by cold iron, the singers say." along side "wizards die the same as other men once you cut their heads off." Davos thinks about this when he comes to Dragonstone. Actually in another thread, a case has been made that Val may be the one to kill Melisandre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 I started another thread, and I want to direct everyone before this one closes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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