[Book Spoiler 1-5] Wouldn't it be great if...

[KingInTheCave]

If Catelyn did not come back on the show?

What makes this show great for a lot of viewers is that anyone can die, nobody is safe. If you take that away, the show will no doubt lose a lot of its appeal. And there are no major deaths until Jon Snow's at the end of DwD, not to mention that he's also very likely to be resurrected. So I think that D&D should leave her dead, her coming back in the books added nothing to the story so far, it only lessened the effect of the red wedding. And if she doesn't come back you can leave out a lot of the Brienne stuff in aFfC to make it less boring.

[jentario]

The main character of that storyline (in the show) was Robb. His death is much more meaningful to non-readers when watching the show. Catelyn is just his mother- a character on the sidelines and collateral dage at the RW (to viewers). They were sad by her death, but appalled by Robb's, so the sense that anyone can die won't change... at least until the show reaches ADWD and AFFC where plenty of characters get fake deaths...

[Khal Porno]

I don't think Cat returning as Lady Stoneheart diminished the effect of the Red Wedding at all, and it definitely added something to the story. I am sure she will play an important role in the future, and it would be a mistake to leave it out. The reveal that she's been reanimated was a great "what the fuck" moment in the books and it will be as well in the show.

[protar]

That would be the exact opposite of great...what's the word? Awful? That's it, it would be awful.

Uncat in no way takes away from the RW, if anything it enhances it, seeing a previously kind and caring character turned into a ruthless undead monster. Not to mention the fact that she seems to have a vital role going into TWOW so I doubt she'll be cut.

[Qhorin Fivehands]

That would be the exact opposite of great...what's the word? Awful? That's it, it would be awful.

Uncat in no way takes away from the RW, if anything it enhances it, seeing a previously kind and caring character turned into a ruthless undead monster. Not to mention the fact that she seems to have a vital role going into TWOW so I doubt she'll be cut.

You said it. Uncat is such an interesting storyline. When Brienne gets brought before her it turns into one of the most awesome chapters of the series and I can't wait to see the Uncat reveal. And what about Talisa? Next season Tywin and Shae and Lysa? No one will ever doubt that anyone can die in Game of Thrones.

[KingInTheCave]

You said it. Uncat is such an interesting storyline. When Brienne gets brought before her it turns into one of the most awesome chapters of the series and I can't wait to see the Uncat reveal. And what about Talisa? Next season Tywin and Shae and Lysa? No one will ever doubt that anyone can die in Game of Thrones.

Yes, but most viewers don't care about those characters. I'm talking about the characters that people are rooting for: Ned, Robb, Cat, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya...

No non-reader is ever going to think that Cat not coming back on the show is awful. But many will have the same reaction they had when Dondarion was resurrected, which is "oh god, now even dead people can be brought back?".

Look, I know Cat will definitely return, otherwise they would not have shown us Dondarion's resurrection. But I for one (and many viewers after they see it) would rather she doesn't. The whole resurrection thing seemed silly to me, not only did take away from the RW, it took away from the entire story, it removed the sense that no one is safe and death is final. Once again, don't forget that the next death of a character people care about is Jon Snow, and he's going to be brought back.

One more thing, in the book UnCat goes after Brienne because she's carrying the sword Oathbreaker (made from Ice), and Jaime because she hears his name from Roose before he stabs Robb, those two things were left out or changed on the show.

[Qhorin Fivehands]

Yes, but most viewers don't care about those characters. I'm talking about the characters that people are rooting for: Ned, Robb, Cat, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya...

No non-reader is ever going to think that Cat not coming back on the show is awful. But many will have the same reaction they had when Dondarion was resurrected, which is "oh god, now even dead people can be brought back?".

Look, I know Cat will definitely return, otherwise they would not have shown us Dondarion's resurrection. But I for one (and many viewers after they see it) would rather she doesn't. The whole resurrection thing seemed silly to me, not only did take away from the RW, it took away from the entire story, it removed the sense that no one is safe and death is final. Once again, don't forget that the next death of a character people care about is Jon Snow, and he's going to be brought back.

One more thing, in the book UnCat goes after Brienne because she's carrying the sword Oathbreaker (made from Ice), and Jaime because she hears his name from Roose before he stabs Robb, those two things were left out or changed on the show.

So do you think UnCat has no further part to play in the series apart from murdering Freys?

[KingInTheCave]

I don't think she will play a role in the resurrection of Jon Snow if that's what you mean. We still don't know what will happen with her and Jaime and Brienne. I think she will continue to kill Freys and maybe play a role in the end of that house (I'm hoping).

[protar]

One of my biggest pet peeves on this forum is people hating on the fantasy aspects of the series. Magic and resurrection is set up in Game of Thrones chapter 1. How these people managed to get to the end of SOS in the first place is kind of beyond me.

In no way does Uncat take away from the sense that no one is safe. If Cat had been fine upon being resurrected you'd have a point but she's an insane shell of her former self. If anything that's even worse than her dying.

[KingInTheCave]

One of my biggest pet peeves on this forum is people hating on the fantasy aspects of the series. Magic and resurrection is set up in Game of Thrones chapter 1. How these people managed to get to the end of SOS in the first place is kind of beyond me.

In no way does Uncat take away from the sense that no one is safe. If Cat had been fine upon being resurrected you'd have a point but she's an insane shell of her former self. If anything that's even worse than her dying.

I'm saying that resurrection in general takes away from the sense that no one is safe, Beric was brought back five times and was mostly fine each time.

It's one thing to have someone reanimated as a mindless wight or zombie as we saw in the first chapter, but it's a completely different thing to bring back full-fledged human beings who think, talk, have all their old memories, and can make decisions other than kill.

[Ser Luke.]

While I don't mind Lady Stoneheart in the books, I honestly wouldn't care THAT much if they cut her on the show. Unless she has a huge role to play in TWOW (which she very well might) I would be fine if they cut her.

[protar]

I'm saying that resurrection in general takes away from the sense that no one is safe, Beric was brought back five times and was mostly fine each time.

It's one thing to have someone reanimated as a mindless wight or zombie as we saw in the first chapter, but it's a completely different thing to bring back full-fledged human beings who think, talk, have all their old memories, and can make decisions other than kill.

We honestly can't judge how resurrection affected Beric because we barely knew the man prior to meeting his undead form. He tells us he loses his memories and that he's changed but we really can't say how much. In any case, Beric's a minor character. From a narrative perspective it only matters that Cat is changed from her resurrection because she's a major character who we knew prior to being undead.

Personally the magic is my favourite part of the series. It kills me when the show strips away these parts due to this perception that it can't make for serious drama.

[Tquinn BC]

Guys, Cat doesn't come back.

Uncat comes back.

There's a difference, she's not even remotely like her same character

[Unknown Targaryen]

loads of people die in the next few books.

next series will be joffrey!!!!

season after will be tywin, shea and oberyn!

tust me, no one who just watches the show will think that the characters are now safe.

[oierem]

The only POV character that has evern died (permantently) is Ned. I really don't believe the whole "nobody is save" mantra. Who believes that Jon is really dead? We don't because the main characters are always save, even in this story.

[protar]

The only POV character that has evern died (permantently) is Ned. I really don't believe the whole "nobody is save" mantra. Who believes that Jon is really dead? We don't because the main characters are always save, even in this story.

Well technically there's Quentyn and Arys but I can see why you don't count them.

But yes, most of the "no one is safe" stuff is just clever smoke and mirrors; and there's nothing wrong with that. I applaud Martin for so expertly being able to weave the illusion of unpredictability, whereas he'd go down a lot in my estimations if Dany where to be killed off before reaching Westeros.

[Unknown Targaryen]

If martin kills danny and or fails to put the targaryens back on the throne Ill be super annoyed by it all.

I actually care more about the game of thrones than the song of ice and fire.

[KingInTheCave]

The only POV character that has evern died (permantently) is Ned. I really don't believe the whole "nobody is save" mantra. Who believes that Jon is really dead? We don't because the main characters are always save, even in this story.

I believed it until cat was brought back. The only thing that can make it true again is if one of the following characters die very soon: Dany, Arya, Bran/Rickon, or Jon Snow.

On a side note Protar: what magic was left out on the show? I really don't recall anything except for the visions in the house of the undying.

[protar]

I believed it until cat was brought back. The only thing that can make it true again is if one of the following characters die very soon: Dany, Arya, Bran/Rickon, or Jon Snow.

On a side note Protar: what magic was left out on the show? I really don't recall anything except for the visions in the house of the undying.

Well the visions are a very major part of the series and almost all of them have been left out. Warging has also been severely downplayed as at this point in the series not only Bran but also Jon and Arya are warging as well. The Black Gate was removed as well though that's sort of minor. And of course we'll have to see until S4 to see whether Uncat and/or CH's make the cut.

They've still managed to keep most of the magic in, but it's certainly been downplayed and delayed imo.

[Janicia]

The wizened old woman who prophesied at Arya was also omitted. In the book, the alchemists explicitly used spells while making the wildfire; spells for making wildfire were not mentioned in the TV show. Commander Mormont's raven - particularly its advice to burn the zombie - and the long-distance connection between the direwolves is also skipped in the show.