Azor Ahai IS The Prince That Was Promised (proof)

[Dragonmag170]

Erm... I've thought this was a deliberately obvious fact in the books... I dont think he accidentally spoiled it; he probably did that very deliberately, to stop people debating something he meant to be obvious.

[yolkboy]

I'm new to this forum and am stunned so many people think Azor Ahai and TPTWP are separate prophecies/entities.

Some people need to re-read the books. This isn't even debatable. Do you guys also think Eddard and Ned are different people? :lol:

There's actually nothing in the books to confirm AA=TPTWP. That's why people are OMGing over a youtube video.

Unless you have different books than the rest of us?

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Nope nothing actually confirms it in the books, But some characters say that they are, its up to the reader how they interpret it though as we have not so far had any reveal as to the exact wording or origins of either AA or TPTWP. All we know of the Last hero is through Brans recollection of Old Nans tales and I think some chat between Jon & Sam (or am I remembering that wrong.). There is no definitive statement that any or all of these prophesies relate to one another. We are left to decide for ourselves if they do and if so to what degree.

[King of Winters]

Nope nothing actually confirms it in the books, But some characters say that they are, its up to the reader how they interpret it though as we have not so far had any reveal as to the exact wording or origins of either AA or TPTWP. All we know of the Last hero is through Brans recollection of Old Nans tales and I think some chat between Jon & Sam (or am I remembering that wrong.). There is no definitive statement that any or all of these prophesies relate to one another. We are left to decide for ourselves if they do and if so to what degree.

No, your not wrong. Jon and Sam discuss Dragonsteel, which the Last Hero is said to have wielded.

Erm... I've thought this was a deliberately obvious fact in the books... I dont think he accidentally spoiled it; he probably did that very deliberately, to stop people debating something he meant to be obvious.

I think some people might have gotten confused about AAR and TPTWP being the same because of the dialogue scene between Melisandre and Aemon when Stannis showed his Lightbringer to Sam.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

And in return, Melisandre sees that the Lord of Light gives him a token of his role as the Prince the was Promised by ancient prophecy and that's the sword Lightbringer.

Mel never says that Stannis is tptwp, she only says that he is AAR. So by GRRM's words AAR=TPTWP

And this

I've been directing people to watch this for months to prove AAR is the same as TPTWP.

[Groat]

Mel never says that Stannis is tptwp, she only says that he is AAR. So by GRRM's words AAR=TPTWP

Yes she does. Aemon asks who then is TPTWP, and Mel responds that he is standing right before them, referencing Stannis. Mel has claimed Stannis is TPTWP.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes she does. Aemon asks who then is TPTWP, and Mel responds that he is standing right before them, referencing Stannis. Mel has claimed Stannis is TPTWP.

I never said to anyone... I said she doesn't say it like in her PoVs

[WildBlood]

I never said to anyone... I said she doesn't say it like in her PoVs

But she does in fact say it.... :unsure:

[Jon's Queen Consort]

But she does in fact say it.... :unsure:

I don't recall it I remember her saying that he is AAR not TPTWP maybe I am wrong and need a reread... :unsure:

[Ska∂i]

I don't recall it I remember her saying that he is AAR not TPTWP maybe I am wrong and need a reread... :unsure:

Here is the text:

But all of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady . But where is the prince that was promised?”

“He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire. In him the prophecies are fulfilled. The red comet blazed across the sky to herald his coming, and he bears Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes.”

[WildBlood]

So she calls him both AAR and tPtwP in the same conversation. That is proof without the video. And I am also pretty sure Last Hero isthe same just a north version without the text to prove it lol

ETA- aemon actually calls him that but she knew what he was talking about as if they were interchangeable.

[Ska∂i]

Confirmed by George RR Martin where he accidentally spoiled it xD

watch from 7:00 onwards. try listening to what george is saying in the background when it comes to the scene where stannis picks up 'his lightbringer'

I can't agree with this interpretation of GRRM's comments. He is clearly describing events from Mel's viewpoint here. If you were to take these comments literally at face value you would then have to accept that GRRM is saying that Stannis gave up his belief in the gods of his childhood in favor of the Lord of Light. But we know from the text that Stannis did not worship the seven, or any gods, and that he does not truly worship R'hllor either. GRRM also states that the sword is Lightbringer, when we know it is not. It is a glamoured sword that gives off no heat. Again, this demonstrates that GRRM is speaking from Mel's view, she is the one who believes Stannis is AAR, she is the one who answered M. Aemon that he is the PtwP and she gave him "Lightbringer."

ETA: I don't have a belief either way that AAR and PtwP are the same or different people, I just disagree that this video clip settles the debate on the matter.

[yolkboy]

So she calls him both AAR and tPtwP in the same conversation. That is proof without the video.

This is from the same Mel that, in the very same conversation, thinks Stannis is AA. The same Mel who gets a shit-tonne of things wrong on a regular basis.

I wouldn't call it proof, not from her mouth.

[Hangover of the Morning]

I'm new to this forum and am stunned so many people think Azor Ahai and TPTWP are separate prophecies/entities.

Some people need to re-read the books. This isn't even debatable. Do you guys also think Eddard and Ned are different people? :lol:

My thoughts exactly. I only read the books once and never paid attention whether AA and TPTwP are used in the same sentence. I just automatically assumed that they (and the Last Hero) were the same thing.

[Ska∂i]

This is from the same Mel that, in the very same conversation, thinks Stannis is AA. The same Mel who gets a shit-tonne of things wrong on a regular basis.

I wouldn't call it proof, not from her mouth.

:agree:

[Melisandre's Shadow]

This is from the same Mel that, in the very same conversation, thinks Stannis is AA. The same Mel who gets a shit-tonne of things wrong on a regular basis.

I wouldn't call it proof, not from her mouth.

Mel is not the one who gives proof in this exchange for me... its the fact that Aemon doesn't question or comment that she changes the wording from PtwP to AA reborn. And I think we can all agree that Aemon is a smart mofo that would know some shit about the prophecies.

[Onna Lewyys]

I can't agree with this interpretation of GRRM's comments. He is clearly describing events from Mel's viewpoint here. If you were to take these comments literally at face value you would then have to accept that GRRM is saying that Stannis gave up his belief in the gods of his childhood in favor of the Lord of Light. But we know from the text that Stannis did not worship the seven, or any gods, and that he does not truly worship R'hllor either. GRRM also states that the sword is Lightbringer, when we know it is not. It is a glamoured sword that gives off no heat. Again, this demonstrates that GRRM is speaking from Mel's view, she is the one who believes Stannis is AAR, she is the one who answered M. Aemon that he is the PtwP and she gave him "Lightbringer."

ETA: I don't have a belief either way that AAR and PtwP are the same or different people, I just disagree that this video clip settles the debate on the matter.

Agreed. We'd also have to accept that the Seven and the Old Gods are "demons."

[Florina Laufeyson]

Errr...more critically, in my opinion, did GRRM just confirm Stannis as the Prince who was Promised?

No. He was just saying that Stannis is accepting "his role" as the Prince That Was Promised by ancient prophecy. Mostly because Mel believes that. Its not saying Stannis IS PTWP.

[WildBlood]

Mel is not the one who gives proof in this exchange for me... its the fact that Aemon doesn't question or comment that she changes the wording from PtwP to AA reborn. And I think we can all agree that Aemon is a smart mofo that would know some shit about the prophecies.

Yes. This is what I was trying to say, not at all successfully apparently. Lol

[Yukle]

Here's another way of looking at it: What would be the benefit of having two different people as Azor Azai and the Promised Prince?

The Prince is just one hero in the story, anyway. No matter who it is (although it's Jon :P ), he isn't going to simply destroy the Others single-handedly. Rather, he is going to lead the charge.