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Azor Ahai IS The Prince That Was Promised (proof)


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The part just before George mentions TPWWP is removed/ edited out, so we loose the context of what GRRM actually said and this becomes a lot less conclusive as far as Stannis actually being AA / TPWWP.



He could have said something about "we think, or perhaps or it seems as if.." but thanks to the editors of that video we will never know.



Having said that, I seriously doubt GRRM slipped and let a spoiler out, and it seems pretty obvious that Stannis is not AA/TPWWP




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GRRM does once in a while slip out spoilers. So it is not out of the realm of possibilities he slipped up there.



I still would like better confirmation if they are indeed the same or not. I tend to believe they are, but I am not 100% positive.


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GRRM says precisely " Stannis (long continuous comment about burning the idols of the Seven..) giving himself to the Lord of Light, and in return, Melisandre sees that the Lord of Light gives him a token of his role as the Prince that was promised by an ancient prophecy and that's the sword Lightbringer". It is only cut in two parts after "his token" so they can show scenes of the show and the sentence continues to its natural end afterwards.



I think it is made pretty clear, at least, that Lightbringer is featured in TPTWP prophecy and that TPTWP and AAR are the same savior figure...



ETA: it is pretty clear it is not true GRRM's sentence has been cut/edited, he says all that in one continuous sentence and I fail to see where it has been "edited" as it's clearly not possible he meant "maybe, we think, it's possible". He said it as an affirmation in the DVD extras :)


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In my opinion, people who believe that AAR and TPtWP are two different persons are just overthinking things.



I'm not alone in believing, that there are no "true" religions in ASoIaF, but rather that they're all products of people from different cultural backgrounds trying to make sense of the stuff they can't explain. Red priests, greenseers, warlocks, blood sorcerers, glass candle owners etc., they all seem to have some kind of ability to see the future in different ways.



So it's really not surprising that if there is some kind of savior figure to come, there will be different kinds of names and backstories that people come up with to refer to this person. I suppose that none of those will get it "right," same as with the other religious beliefs, but since they're based on some kernel of truth, they'll share certain similarities. Hence, we get Azor Ahai and The Prince that Was Promised. Makes sense to me.



Now, with those two labels being used interchangably in-book as well as by the author himself, that really tips the scale towards them being the same entity. Of course, in-book characters are fallible and when George says something like this, he could be putting himself in the subjective position of a fallibe character and yada yada yada - it's really reaching IMO.



I've not seen any strong hints that point to two savior-like figures. The only reason I've heard is the fact that there's no irrefutable evidence against it...



Hell, even the way the story itself is playing out seems to be pointing towards them being the same person. On one hand we have Daenerys' vision of Rhaegar, who thinks that his son is "the prince that was promised" and "his is the song of ice and fire" (which obviously points towards Jon). On the other hand, Melisandre's flames seem to strongly hint that Jon is Azor Ahai Reborn as well...



Only way to settle the issue once and for all is just to wait for the books to come out, I guess. Until then, or until presented with better evidence, TPtWP = AAR is the default answer for me.


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“Nightfires?” Bowen Marsh gave Melisandre an uncertain look. “We’re to light nightfires now?”

“You are.” The woman rose in a swirl of scarlet silk, her long copper-bright hair tumbling about her shoulders. “Swords alone cannot hold

this darkness back. Only the light of the Lord can do that. Make no mistake, good sers and valiant brothers, the war we’ve come to fight is no

petty squabble over lands and honors. Ours is a war for life itself, and should we fail the world dies with us.”

The officers did not know how to take that, Sam could see. Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck exchanged a doubtful look, Janos Slynt was

fuming, and Three-Finger Hobb looked as though he would sooner be back chopping carrots. But all of them seemed surprised to hear

Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”


Seems pretty clear to me.

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I think TPTWP and AAR are the same thing and I don't think they are just ancient prophesies written down.



“The last dragon died before you were born,” said Sam. “How could you remember them?”


“I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies, of wonders and terrors that no man now living could hope to comprehend … or …”


“Or?” said Sam.


“… or not.” Aemon chuckled softly. “Or I am an old man, feverish and dying..."



Aemon has had dragon dreams of the red star bleeding which we know is part of the AAR prophesy. We also know that the GHH had TPTWP dreams and Daeron dreamt the dragons would return.



I think all over planetos people are seeing the same events in visions and dreams but interpreting them differently. We have TPTWP, AAR, TSWMTW, even the Meereenese have their version.



"...Wed Hizdahr zo Loraq and make a son with him, a son whose father is the harpy, whose mother is the dragon. In him the prophecies shall be fulfilled, and your enemies will melt away like snow"



My feeling is that none of these interpretations are right.


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Interesting that the East and the Valyrians think he will come again a la King Arthur but the Northerners don't. Its never said that the Last Hero will come back. Probably because he won't, its not reincarnation. Jon wasn't The Last Hero, he will just do the same thing.

IIRC, it is only the AA prophecy (East/Asshai) that talks about a reincarnation - Azor Ahai reborn. Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't recall TPtwP ever being referred to as a second coming.

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Except both Mel and Aemon have used TPTWP and AAR interchangeably so the text already confirmed this.

He's speaking about what Melisandre believes, not what is strictly true in his universe.

Exactly. This is what Mel believes and most probably it is wrong.

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"...Wed Hizdahr zo Loraq and make a son with him, a son whose father is the harpy, whose mother is the dragon. In him the prophecies shall be fulfilled, and your enemies will melt away like snow"

Melting away in front of the dragons is exactly how the Dornish (and most probably the Rhoynish for a long time) defied Targaryens and their dragons. This is exactly what the Harpy is doing: murdering Dany's men at night and melting away when the morning comes. So if this means anything, it is the doom of Dany.

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Mel never says that Stannis is tptwp, she only says that he is AAR. So by GRRM's words AAR=TPTWP

“It means that the battle is begun,” said Melisandre. “The sand is running through the glass more quickly now, and man’s hour on earth is almost done. We must act boldly, or all hope is lost. Westeros must unite beneath her one true king, the prince that was promised, Lord of Dragonstone and chosen of R’hllor.”

“You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you.” Melisandre went to him, her red lips parted, her ruby throbbing. “Give me this boy,” she whispered, “and I will give you your kingdom.”

“It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”

“He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire. In him the prophecies are fulfilled. The red comet blazed across the sky to herald his coming, and he bears Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes.”

All from ASoS. Mel clearly believes that AAR=tPtwP. Since Mel is the most misguided fool, the opposite of what she suggests is the likely option.

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I see they might be the same. But i do think the ladt hero is a different entiy. We know the last hero startting story, and it talks of no wife, the wife Nizza Nizza is to integral to AA to omit. I think last hero is just the man who found the others weakness, he mightve even told AA about it, prompting AA to make a flaming otherkilling sword. If there is a person in the books who is the last hero, it is Brandon the broken of house Stark.


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Interesting that the East and the Valyrians think he will come again a la King Arthur but the Northerners don't. Its never said that the Last Hero will come back. Probably because he won't, its not reincarnation. Jon wasn't The Last Hero, he will just do the same thing.

I guess in Asshai they saw the person in the visions as their hero AA so they assumed he must be coming back. I don't think TPTWP involves re-incarnation specifically, just maybe rebirth in salt and smoke which could be a living person being born again or a dead person returning.

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Confirmed by George RR Martin where he accidentally spoiled it xD

watch from 7:00 onwards. try listening to what george is saying in the background when it comes to the scene where stannis picks up 'his lightbringer'

I don´t think this is a confirmation of who Azor Ahai is. Thise youtube clip show the difirence religions in Westeros and how the followers thinks. In this case (7:00 and forward) he tells from melisandres pov just as how he tells from the ironborns´ pov when talking about the drownedgod.

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Are there people who believe they are different?



Ive never heard anyone say that, and I would probably think them foolish if they did. Maybe its just my interpretation, but I thought all along that they were definitely the same person.



What would be the point of having AAR, and then a totally separate guy (or gal) as PTWP? Like what would this new AAR's purpose be? Just having a bright sword and killing his wife just for fun?


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“It means that the battle is begun,” said Melisandre. “The sand is running through the glass more quickly now, and man’s hour on earth is almost done. We must act boldly, or all hope is lost. Westeros must unite beneath her one true king, the prince that was promised, Lord of Dragonstone and chosen of R’hllor.”

“You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you.” Melisandre went to him, her red lips parted, her ruby throbbing. “Give me this boy,” she whispered, “and I will give you your kingdom.”

“It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”

“He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire. In him the prophecies are fulfilled. The red comet blazed across the sky to herald his coming, and he bears Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes.”

All from ASoS. Mel clearly believes that AAR=tPtwP. Since Mel is the most misguided fool, the opposite of what she suggests is the likely option.

once Maester Aemon hears about the dany and the dragons en route to the citadel, he' s hearing no more of the Stan The Man talk...calls out "lightbringer" as a false sword/glamour and is all in for Dany...citing a few misinterpretations of the prophecy.

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All from ASoS. Mel clearly believes that AAR=tPtwP. Since Mel is the most misguided fool, the opposite of what she suggests is the likely option.

No, you can't use that logic here.

The question if AAR and TPtWP are the same person or not is not an in-book mystery. No character ever thinks "Mh, I wonder if they are really different people." The two phrases are used interchangeably, both by book-characters as well as the author himself.

This is purely something that fans speculate about, not characters. The "mystery" is outside of the book universe.

So you can't say that it's probably the opposite of what Melisandre believes.

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GRRM says precisely " Stannis (long continuous comment about burning the idols of the Seven..) giving himself to the Lord of Light, and in return, Melisandre sees that the Lord of Light gives him a token of his role as the Prince that was promised by an ancient prophecy and that's the sword Lightbringer". It is only cut in two parts after "his token" so they can show scenes of the show and the sentence continues to its natural end afterwards.

I think it is made pretty clear, at least, that Lightbringer is featured in TPTWP prophecy and that TPTWP and AAR are the same savior figure...

ETA: it is pretty clear it is not true GRRM's sentence has been cut/edited, he says all that in one continuous sentence and I fail to see where it has been "edited" as it's clearly not possible he meant "maybe, we think, it's possible". He said it as an affirmation in the DVD extras :)

So then what you are saying is that GRRM would have us believe Stannis is TPWWP and that is lightbringer. And if that turns out that Stannis was never AA then GRRM intentionally lied to us in that video. Thats what you re saying.

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