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Sansa's attitude


MizasterJ

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Personally, I judge the characters based on other characters's behavior in the exact same situation in the books. Sadly for Sansa, the only character in the exact same situation as her was Tyrion, so she ends up looking bad because her attitude was worse than his.

He had every right to mistrust her because of of her role in Ned's beheading, despise her because of Catelyn role in his own imprisonment and treat her as badly as she treated him for Tyrion was wronged by the Starks as much as Sansa was wronged by the Lannisters, only the thing is: he didn't. She did.

Their situation was not the same as Tyrion chose the marriage because he desired Sansa and Winterfell, while Sansa was forced into the marriage under threat of receiving punishment if she declined.

Tyrion couldn't care less about Winterfell: every single one of his POVs made the point of his claim over Carterly Rock and his father's repeated attempts to undermine it, Sansa being the latest one of them.

Tyrion had every right to resent her as much as he resented Tywin.

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Tyrion couldn't care less about Winterfell:

Tyrion's own POV has him desiring Winterfell when he realizes that Tywin isn't going to give him the Rock.

I want her, he realized. I want Winterfell, yes, but I want her as well, child or woman or whatever she is.
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Tyrion couldn't care less about Winterfell: every single one of his POVs made the point of his claim over Carterly Rock and his father's repeated attempts to undermine it, Sansa being the latest one of them.

Tyrion had every right to resent her as much as he resented Tywin.

Tyrion's own POV has him desiring Winterfell when he realizes that Tywin isn't going to give him the Rock.

The one line he gave up on Casterly Rock doesn't change every single POV where Tyrion states his claims over it.

Not to mention, the fact Tywin basically gave Winterfell to Ramsay along with Arya's hand in matrimony. Winterfell was never going to be for Tyrion, everybody knew Ramsay was going to produce an heir long before Tyrion would touch his wife.

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The one line he gave up on Casterly Rock doesn't change every single POV where Tyrion states his claims over it.

Not to mention, the fact Tywin basically gave Winterfell to Ramsay along with Arya's hand in matrimony. Winterfell was never going to be for Tyrion, everybody knew Ramsay was going to produce an heir long before Tyrion would touch his wife.

Tywin did no such thing. This (as far as I could tell) was essentially a back up plan to maintain a Lannister-allied control of the North until such a point at which Tyrion and Sansa could produce an heir. By Westerosi inheritance laws, Sansa, as well as any child of hers, would come before Arya and any child of hers in the inheritance of Winterfell meaning that if Sansa and Tyrion had consummated their marriage and a child was born, that child would have been the heir to Winterfell after Sansa met an inevitable unfortunate end, leaving the child in the hands of the Lannisters. Even if no heir had ever been produced, Sansa and Tyrion would have ruled the North until Sansa's death and only then would Arya and any offspring from her marriage to Ramsay be able to touch the North.

There's also the fact that Ramsay was married, not to Arya Stark, but to Jeyne Poole meaning that Tywin could very easily remove any and all claim the two of them and their offspring have to Winterfell.

Edited to clarify and fix a spelling error. Also this is my first post and I couldn't find anything in the rules banning tagged spoilers inside spoiler code, but I can remove them if I need to.

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The one line he gave up on Casterly Rock doesn't change every single POV where Tyrion states his claims over it.

Not to mention, the fact Tywin basically gave Winterfell to Ramsay along with Arya's hand in matrimony. Winterfell was never going to be for Tyrion, everybody knew Ramsay was going to produce an heir long before Tyrion would touch his wife.

Yes, he always wanted the Rock but that doesn't mean he didn't want Winterfell.

The Bolton's were only supposed to hold it until after they soaked up all the damage fighting the Ironborn, Northerners, Wildlings, and winter then Tywin was planning to use Tyrion's child by Sansa to rule the North.

Seriously, I know you want to portray Tyrion as some terrible victim but the books disprove your repeated attempts.

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The one line he gave up on Casterly Rock doesn't change every single POV where Tyrion states his claims over it.

Not to mention, the fact Tywin basically gave Winterfell to Ramsay along with Arya's hand in matrimony. Winterfell was never going to be for Tyrion, everybody knew Ramsay was going to produce an heir long before Tyrion would touch his wife.

Yes, he always wanted the Rock but that doesn't mean he didn't want Winterfell.

Tyrion never wanted Winterfell badly enough to consumate this marriage. He did, however, killed his father for Casterly Rock and the wife he actually wanted (Tysha).

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Tyrion never wanted Winterfell badly enough to consumate this marriage.

Yes, because he isn't a rapist. However, you have done nothing to ever prove any of your statements attempting to make an equivalency between their two situations. Simply, the text shows Tyrion freely agreeing to the marriage and actually recieving something from it that he desires. While, Sansa was forced into the marriage and doesn't get anything that she desires out of it.

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I have read past chapter 60. I continue to despise Sansa. The way she treats Tyrion despite his best efforts to comfort her and establish common ground. She remains cold, and emotionless.

She only shows her sadness over her family, when she is alone. I understand all shes been through and her mind set for withholding her true feelings, but she has no reason to do so in the presence of Tyrion.

The thing is he could almost be her night in shining armor if it wasn't for his heart already belonging to Shae ( Which I can't understand what he sees in her for all she puts him through)

I just wish Sansa had been a little more warm and human to Tyrion. She is foolish not to see that despite all his troubles he gives her so much kindness, yet she returns none of it.

They could have made a nice couple if She wasnt such a stick in the mud all the time. I don't see how any readers would like her character.

I think people have commented enough on Lannister-cruelty and all. But there is only one reason needed really: she doesn't want him. He could be the best, most kind, good-looking nice guy there is, and she would still have all the right to be cold to him. And he deserves it too, that drunk, monstrous, promise-breaking Lannistercreature. Quite the Tyrion-love, he doesn't deserve it. Sansa is the 14-year old.
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Tyrion never wanted Winterfell badly enough to consumate this marriage. He did, however, killed his father for Casterly Rock and the wife he actually wanted (Tysha).

Yes, because he isn't a rapist.

One thing has nothing to do with the other: Ramsay is a rapist and he consummated his marriage to Lady Hornwood - just as it was expected of him to consummate his marriage to Arya Stark - to secure the land, in front of witness.

The moment Tyrion refuses the bedding he undermines any claim over Winterfell because there are no witness: he still wants Casterly Rock whether or not he consummates this marriage.

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One thing has nothing to do with the other: Ramsay is a rapist and he consummated his marriage to Lady Hornwood - just as it was expected of him to consummate his marriage to Arya Stark - to secure the land, in front of witness.

The moment Tyrion refuses the bedding he undermines any claim over Winterfell because there are no witness: he still wants Casterly Rock whether or not he consummates this marriage.

No, that deals why he doesn't consummate the marriage despite wanting Winterfell. Thus, he decided to wait until he believed Sansa to be willing to come into his bed.

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Tyrion couldn't care less about Winterfell: every single one of his POVs made the point of his claim over Carterly Rock and his father's repeated attempts to undermine it, Sansa being the latest one of them.

Tyrion had every right to resent her as much as he resented Tywin.

Tyrion has a right to resent his forced child bride he chose to marry? For what, exactly?

For holding him back from Caterly Rock, I thought that much was obvious from the first line.

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For holding him back from Caterly Rock, I thought that much was obvious from the first line.

Now I'm genuinely confused - what exactly did Sansa do that prevented Tyrion from gaining Casterly Rock (which Tywin never planned to give to Tyrion ever)?

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The one line he gave up on Casterly Rock doesn't change every single POV where Tyrion states his claims over it.

Not to mention, the fact Tywin basically gave Winterfell to Ramsay along with Arya's hand in matrimony. Winterfell was never going to be for Tyrion, everybody knew Ramsay was going to produce an heir long before Tyrion would touch his wife.

Correction.. Tywin gave Roose/Ramsay a fake Arya because Arya except KL and people never knew they had her when she was at Harrenhal although Roose did suspect who she was and thus knows Arya is alive. yet, Roose too lost Arya from his grasps and hence makes a trick to use FArya like they used "Fake" ( used the miller's children) children to represent dead Rickon and Bran.

Does Roose know Sansa is married to Tywin creating a problem about claim..

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Tyrion had every right to resent her as much as he resented Tywin.

For holding him back from Caterly Rock, I thought that much was obvious from the first line.

Item, Tyrion not getting Casterly Rock had nothing to do with marrying Sansa.

Item, even if it did, Tyrion would still have no more ''right'' to resent her than Catelyn had right to resent Jon Snow for Ned's infidelity.

Item, the idea of Sansa being anywhere near as blameworthy as Tywin, even in Tyrion's head, is ludicurous.

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Tyrion couldn't care less about Winterfell: every single one of his POVs made the point of his claim over Carterly Rock and his father's repeated attempts to undermine it, Sansa being the latest one of them.

Tyrion had every right to resent her as much as he resented Tywin.

Item, Tyrion not getting Casterly Rock had nothing to do with marrying Sansa.

Item, keep cutting the line doesn't change the fact Tywin married Tyrion to Sansa only to undermine his claim over Casterly Rock based on a potential claim to Winterfell. The fact Tyrion didn't consumate his marriage is what strenghten his claim over Casterly Rock above his father's over Winterfell.

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Item, keep cutting the line doesn't change the fact Tywin married Tyrion to Sansa only to undermine his claim over Casterly Rock based on a potential claim to Winterfell. The fact Tyrion didn't consumate his marriage is what strenghten his claim over Casterly Rock above his father's over Winterfell.

This logic makes no sense whatsoever, sorry. To begin with, being Lord Protector of Winterfell and Lord of Casterly Rock are not mutually exclusive titles - if Tywin was even remotely willing to give Tyrion Casterly Rock, he would have given him both WF and CR. Unfortunately for Tyrion, his father happens to loathe him. Second of all, Tywin gave Tyrion a choice - Tyrion did have the option to refuse the marriage to Sansa even if it would have resulted in disappointed!Tywin - this implies that Tywin did not particularly care if it were Tyrion that married Sansa so much as it was a Lannister. The whole marriage was always about Sansa and Sansa's claim and never about Tyrion and Casterly Rock.

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Item, keep cutting the line doesn't change the fact Tywin married Tyrion to Sansa only to undermine his claim over Casterly Rock based on a potential claim to Winterfell.

And wanting to see his future grandson as the lord of Winterfell had nothing to do with it I'm sure. :rolleyes:

By this logic, he could have married Tyrion to Gatehouse Ami and made him lord of Darry.

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  • 1 month later...

He just wants her to warm up to him, because he believes it would make life easier for both of them.

This, but I think he does care for her. Not in the sense of a loving husband caring for his wife, but as someone with some tiny shred of compassion who recognises that Sansa has gone through the wringer and continues to be belted by everything the crazy boy king and his equally cunty & crazy mother and grandfather can scheme up.

Tyrion does want her to ease up on the cold shoulder and I dislike that Sansa, in her POV chapters cannot see beyond his deformities to his actual personality (which is in keeping with her hopeless devotion to illusions of fairytale romance and knights). But Tyrion also knows what he represents to her and why she is so cold: continued captivity at the hands of the Lannisters.

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Tyrion does want her to ease up on the cold shoulder and I dislike that Sansa, in her POV chapters cannot see beyond his deformities to his actual personality (which is in keeping with her hopeless devotion to illusions of fairytale romance and knights)..

He does have a WONDERFUL personality doesn't he? I know I would love a husband who forced me to marry him, enjoyed whoring, was an alcoholic, was part of the Lannister effort in the war against my brother and, when I cried during the wedding, didn't give a fuck. Sign me up!!

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