Toxspecific Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Alton to Jaime: cousin, fan, admirer and someone who wanted to help him out.Renly to Stannis: douche of a brother who decides to steal what is his right and then try to kill Stannis to take it.Don't make such ridiculous comparisons please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mondrian Oak Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Alton to Jaime: cousin, fan, admirer and someone who wanted to help him out.Renly to Stannis: douche of a brother who decides to steal what is his right and then try to kill Stannis to take it.Don't make such ridiculous comparisons please.Chill out. Kinslaying is kinslaying. You may think Stannis is the rightful king; that doesn't make him less of a kinslayer. And, to be clear, Renly was a treatcherous wanker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepi Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 He didn't "slay" Renly, come on. He informally executed him! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 He didn't "slay" Renly, come on. He informally executed him! :DThe U.S. calls it a "targeted killing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mondrian Oak Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Because he isn't going to send ravens around the Seven Kingdoms for every traitor that he killed?"Stannis update: traitor number 4567 has been exterminated. Bend the knee!"Like Renly was a common traitor. Former member of Robert's small council, member of the Baratheon family, one out of the then four contenders to the throne. If there was one whose death Stannis could have spread the word, that was Renly. Try and be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Chill out. Kinslaying is kinslaying. You may think Stannis is the rightful king; that doesn't make him less of a kinslayer. And, to be clear, Renly was a treatcherous wanker.Wasn't it really Shadowbaby Storm who killed Uncle Renly? Stannis is only guilty of not being present in his bastard son's short life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mondrian Oak Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Wasn't it really Shadowbaby Storm who killed Uncle Renly? Stannis is only guilty of not being present in his bastard son's short life.Bad parenting indeed. Had it been Robert's Shadowbaby Storm, it would've wandered through Uncle Renly's camp raping everyone and everything, to spite his whoring father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I have also got the impression from a D&D interview that they dislike Stannis. Bryan Cogman seemed somewhat defensive about it - he's aware that many fans are not happy with how they've written the character.There have been good scenes with show Stannis, but the thing they all have in common is that Melisandre is absent.They've called him immoral, that seems a fair indication they dislike his character. While I agree that the Stannis fans over idolize his character, it's hard to deny that Season 3 saw him turn into a different character...needy, petulant, indecisive....than what was portrayed in the books.Since it appears to me that D&D's feelings about the various characters and arcs heavily dictate how much screen time they are given and how sympathetic they are portrayed, I don't see much hope for Stannis returning to his book form as a man whose inflexibility is both his greatest flaw and greatest asset. They just see him as a conservative religious jerk, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 They've called him immoral, that seems a fair indication they dislike his character.They just see him as a conservative religious jerk, LOL.So what are his views on gun control, abortion, or death penalty?Walter White is also immoral, you know. Draw whatever conclusions you wish from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Chill out. Kinslaying is kinslaying. You may think Stannis is the rightful king; that doesn't make him less of a kinslayer. And, to be clear, Renly was a treatcherous wanker.Empty. Meaningless. Label. Sticking to technical terms to the point of stupidity and then trying to discuss stuff based on that, well then Ned defo is a traitor and a treacherous scum who would conspire against his Queen, Joffrey is Robert's son and a true Baratheon, etc etc.Kinslaying, what makes it bad? The fact you're killing someone you're supposed to look after, right? What if that person tries to kill you, what choice do you have left then? Stannis had no choice, and if you're going to say stuff like 'kinslaying is kinslaying' then you shouldn't be discussing ASOIAF characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 So what are his views on gun control, abortion, or death penalty?Walter White is also immoral, you know. Draw whatever conclusions you wish from that.So was Tony Soprano, but David Chase isn't running Game of Thrones, and by my viewing D&D's personal feelings, beliefs and interpretations about the characters are more and more taking precedence over the book form. Maybe there are people who thought the Dragonstone scenes this season were well done, they seemed rushed and underdeveloped to me, Carice's acting has taken a turn toward Littlefinger's batman voice villany, and much of Stannis agency has been given over to her.I am not the one who likened him to the modern day Republican Party, they are. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 And now they're ruining the attack on the wildlings too. 'I'ma take the battle to the White Walkers!' instead of 'I should have been trying to save the realm to win the Throne' intentions. Pffft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mondrian Oak Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Empty. Meaningless. Label. Sticking to technical terms to the point of stupidity and then trying to discuss stuff based on that, well then Ned defo is a traitor and a treacherous scum who would conspire against his Queen, Joffrey is Robert's son and a true Baratheon, etc etc.Kinslaying, what makes it bad? The fact you're killing someone you're supposed to look after, right? What if that person tries to kill you, what choice do you have left then? Stannis had no choice, and if you're going to say stuff like 'kinslaying is kinslaying' then you shouldn't be discussing ASOIAF characters.Lad. I mean. Lad. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerless Man Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Now I like Stannis, not to the extent that I don't see he has flaws mind you. But in Season 3 they got rid of a lot of his autonomy. Immediately after Robb dies, he agrees to sacrifice Gendry, whilst in the books more proof is required. In the books Melisandre doesn't have to convince him to go North. He does so himself. Most importantly he is always seems to be in command, telling Mel. that if she's wrong that she will "die by inches" or something along those lines. Show Stannis, who I believe Stephen Dillane plays magnificently, just doesn't seem as strong in himself. Maybe in Season 4, if he acts more strongly and more autonomously, he could be salvaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannerless Man Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Lad. I mean. Lad. Wow.Well he does have a point in the second half. Why is kinslaying bad if your kinsman is also trying to kill you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mondrian Oak Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Well he does have a point in the second half. Why is kinslaying bad if your kinsman is also trying to kill you?Well, how is smuggling bad if it saves lives? That didn't hinder Davos's finger from being shortened. My "wow" was for the "if you think...you shouldn't be discussing ASOIAF characters". And again, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Shieldbreaker Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Shouldn't you people just stop watching the show altogether if it's such a terrible injustice to you?For chrissake, it's a completely different medium with completely different constraints so it's going to be a different end product.Put away your books and watch the series for what it is: a brilliant piece of television drama with gorgeous sets and CGI, terrific actors, great use of music and a thrilling story.Adaptations should be measured on their own merits, not 'compared to the book' (which is impossible anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Shieldbreaker Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 To clarify: personally I tend to stay away from a favourite book for a while if there's going to be an adaptation, exactly so I won't be comparing all the time. So when Mellisandre turned up with the brotherhood without banners in the series, I was thinking "hey.. I don't remember that in the book, I guess it's different" rather than foaming at the mouth while shouting that that's not how it happened according to The Word Of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Shouldn't you people just stop watching the show altogether if it's such a terrible injustice to you?For chrissake, it's a completely different medium with completely different constraints so it's going to be a different end product.Put away your books and watch the series for what it is: a brilliant piece of television drama with gorgeous sets and CGI, terrific actors, great use of music and a thrilling story.Adaptations should be measured on their own merits, not 'compared to the book' (which is impossible anyway).Nonsense. If The Great Gatsby ended with Jay Gatsby and Daisy walking off into the sunset to live happily ever after everyone would hate it and rightly so, because it would be unfaithful to everything that The Great Gatsby was trying to tell the reader.There is nothing wrong with complaining about an adaptation that makes significant CHARACTER changes which have nothing to do with the medium of film or time constraints or budget any of the other excuses that are routinely trotted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Well, how is smuggling bad if it saves lives? That didn't hinder Davos's finger from being shortened.My "wow" was for the "if you think...you shouldn't be discussing ASOIAF characters". And again, wow.If you think that one simplistic term is enough to describe the Stannis-Renly situation then you sure as hell don't. Thing is, in GRRM's world, characters are willing to cross boundaries if need be; the Baratheons tossed aside their fealty to Aerys in wake of his tyranny and ridiculous actions, Dany stood by and watched Viserys die instead of protesting because she knew he'd committed a crime punishable by death, Qhorin Halfhand commanded Jon to do what men of the NW would declare treachery and make him labelled as a traitor.Rigid rock solid rules are only meant to be followed up till the point they help you survive. Beyond that, i.e Renly wanting you dead, you take action. this is justification for Stannis having Renly killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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