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is marillion coming back for his role in the eyrie

Without a tongue? Very unlikely.

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Calling Ser Dontos to take on his role.

How could Dontos take his role? He's not a part of Lysa's household, and LF wouldn't take him to the Eyrie. His presence would be an obvious sign that Alayne is Sansa. He would be wanted in King's Landing.

Marillion's role could only be played by someone from Lysa's household, someone she was close to. And it would also be preferable that he's an asshole who either harasses/assaults Sansa as Marillion did, or just helps/stands by while Lysa tries to murder her, or else Sansa's characterization would suffer if she allows someone completely innocent to take the fall.

The easiest solution would be to invent another singer who's exactly like the Marillion from the book and call him something else. None of the casual viewers remember Marillion, anyway. And it's not like his role depends on any previous plot or characterization. He could have been a new character in ASOS and everything would have been the same.

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How could Dontos take his role? He's not a part of Lysa's household, and LF wouldn't take him to the Eyrie. His presence would be an obvious sign that Alayne is Sansa. He would be wanted in King's Landing.

Expecting the writers to give Dontos the role and just gloss over this part.

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How could Dontos take his role? He's not a part of Lysa's household, and LF wouldn't take him to the Eyrie. His presence would be an obvious sign that Alayne is Sansa. He would be wanted in King's Landing.

Marillion's role could only be played by someone from Lysa's household, someone she was close to. And it would also be preferable that he's an asshole who either harasses/assaults Sansa as Marillion did, or just helps/stands by while Lysa tries to murder her, or else Sansa's characterization would suffer if she allows someone completely innocent to take the fall.

The easiest solution would be to invent another singer who's exactly like the Marillion from the book and call him something else. None of the casual viewers remember Marillion, anyway. And it's not like his role depends on any previous plot or characterization. He could have been a new character in ASOS and everything would have been the same.

Harder hitting if it's an already established character, whilst showing Dontos to be false, a sort of mini character arc. We'll both admit that stranger things have happened in the TV series!

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Harder hitting if it's an already established character, whilst showing Dontos to be false, a sort of mini character arc. We'll both admit that stranger things have happened in the TV series!

This sounds reasonable, and maintains show consistency rather than asking the Unsullied to remember a character from two years ago. It not like they haven't changed bigger things.

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This sounds reasonable, and maintains show consistency rather than asking the Unsullied to remember a character from two years ago. It not like they haven't changed bigger things.

Dontos getting money from LF would show him to be false. And LF taking Dontos to the Eyrie would make no sense. Why not just introduce a new character? It's not like a Marillion-like character would need any special introduction. We already know they can't use him because his tongue was cut out on the show, but he may have been a new character in ASOS as well, it's not like his appearances in AGOT were in any way important to his ASOS role.

And if the idea is that they should use Dontos, then you're contradicting yourself by saying we can't expect the audience to remember a character from 2 years ago.

Harder hitting if it's an already established character, whilst showing Dontos to be false, a sort of mini character arc. We'll both admit that stranger things have happened in the TV series!

Dontos has appeared just once on the show, in the season 2 premiere. Since the PW will happen in episode 2, the escape to Eyrie will have to happen shortly afterwards.The Unsullied do not remember him and will have to be reminded who he is at the start of season 4. It's not clear how big a role he'll even have in season 4 - and we don't know that the audiences will care about him enough in such a short period of time for it to be 'harder hitting'.

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Dontos has appeared just once on the show, in the season 2 premiere. Since the PW will happen in episode 2, the escape to Eyrie will have to happen shortly afterwards.The Unsullied do not remember him and will have to be reminded who he is at the start of season 4. It's not clear how big a role he'll even have in season 4 - and we don't know that the audiences will care about him enough in such a short period of time for it to be 'harder hitting'.

That's actually not true, I know of at least one scene during blackwater where he is juggling for the queen and the ladies in Maegor's. I'm pretty sure there are other scenes as well where he plays the fool, but I wasn't looking all that closely for it. You're right that most people will not remember him though, and I could see them not doing this and have LF help Sansa directly.

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Dontos getting money from LF would show him to be false. And LF taking Dontos to the Eyrie would make no sense. Why not just introduce a new character? It's not like a Marillion-like character would need any special introduction. We already know they can't use him because his tongue was cut out on the show, but he may have been a new character in ASOS as well, it's not like his appearances in AGOT were in any way important to his ASOS role.

And if the idea is that they should use Dontos, then you're contradicting yourself by saying we can't expect the audience to remember a character from 2 years ago.

Dontos has appeared just once on the show, in the season 2 premiere. Since the PW will happen in episode 2, the escape to Eyrie will have to happen shortly afterwards.The Unsullied do not remember him and will have to be reminded who he is at the start of season 4. It's not clear how big a role he'll even have in season 4 - and we don't know that the audiences will care about him enough in such a short period of time for it to be 'harder hitting'.

He's going to have more time in Season 3, I would hope that he will get enough screen time to perhaps become a more sympathetic character than Marillion ever was.

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That's actually not true, I know of at least one scene during blackwater where he is juggling for the queen and the ladies in Maegor's. I'm pretty sure there are other scenes as well where he plays the fool, but I wasn't looking all that closely for it. You're right that most people will not remember him though, and I could see them not doing this and have LF help Sansa directly.

I didn't even notice him, so if I didn't, the Unsullied are even less likely to have with everything else happening in Blackwater, since they don't know he's supposed to be important.

I've just looked on IMDB - he's credited for The North Remembers, Garden of Bones and Blackwater, so you're right that he was there as a fool in some other episode, but the more interesting thing is that he's credited for episodes 1,2 and 3 of season 4. That would be consistent with his book storyline: he will get re-introduced in episode 1 - since the audience needs to be reminded who he is - and promise Sansa to help her; episode 2 will probably end with Joffrey's death and Tyrion's arrest (big cliffhanger); in episode 3 he'll take Sansa to LF (surprise, surprise) and LF will have Lothor shoot him.

I know that we don't know for sure if he will not be in any other episodes, but he's only confirmed for those 3.

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That's actually not true, I know of at least one scene during blackwater where he is juggling for the queen and the ladies in Maegor's. I'm pretty sure there are other scenes as well where he plays the fool, but I wasn't looking all that closely for it. You're right that most people will not remember him though, and I could see them not doing this and have LF help Sansa directly.

Yes, he was in that Blackwater episode. Show has made LF looked like a better guy than he is, don't you think?

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Yes, he was in that Blackwater episode. Show has made LF looked like a better guy than he is, don't you think?

Really? They've only made him even creepier (which is saying a lot) and more annoying, and more obviously villainous. He's like a Bond villain on the show.

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Really? They've only made him even creepier (which is saying a lot) and more annoying, and more obviously villainous. He's like a Bond villain on the show.

You wouldn't believe, many Unsullied i know are actually rooting for him. They think he is not a bad guy. :bang:

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Yes, he was in that Blackwater episode. Show has made LF looked like a better guy than he is, don't you think?

Nah. He pretty much threatened to have Ros sold and have god-knows-what done to her if she didn't stop crying in early season 2, and then we had his big Bond Villain moment when he revealed that he gave Ros to Joffrey, essentially knowing he'd kill her. If anything, the show has made him too overly evil and villainous. I prefer the creepy, subtle villainy of book!Littlefinger.

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You wouldn't believe, many Unsullied i know are actually rooting for him. They think he is not a bad guy. :bang:

Oh gods, really? Hm, I bet they see him as a 'poor unappreciated nerd who got beaten up by a jock (Brandon) and didn't get the girl'. :laugh: (That's apparently the reasoning of many Loki fans, minus the girl part.)

Nah. He pretty much threatened to have Ros sold and have god-knows-what done to her if she didn't stop crying in early season 2, and then we had his big Bond Villain moment when he revealed that he gave Ros to Joffrey, essentially knowing he'd kill her. If anything, the show has made him too overly evil and villainous. I prefer the creepy, subtle villainy of book!Littlefinger.

Yes, they added brothel scenes with Ros whose only purpose (other than having more brothel scenes) were to show how evil he is. In addition, they added:

- a dozen of scenes of him creepin' over Sansa that aren't even in the book, in which they barely interact between their first meeting at the Hand's tourney and her escape

- a scene where he tries to seduce Catelyn literally over the bones of her husband whose death he's partially responsible for

- villainous monologues whose purpose is to spell out for the audience that he's an evil puppet master.

And Gillen plays him pretty much as a moustache-twirling villain.

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Really? They've only made him even creepier (which is saying a lot) and more annoying, and more obviously villainous. He's like a Bond villain on the show.

He's actually nothing like a Bond villain at all. He's more of a mixture between Iago and Roderigo from Shakespear's Othello. Littlefinger's villainy 'hides' in plain sight. He warns Ned not to trust him; he tells Cersei that "Knowledge is power." knowing full well that he considers himself to be one of (if not the) most knowledgeable man in the Seven Kingdoms; etc. I'd imagine that many of these powerful people view Littlefinger as a sheep in wolf's clothing, and that's often how his interactions with others play out on the show. His was a character that was never going to be able to be adapted as he was in the books, due primarily to the loss of the P.O.V. structure. The Unsullied audience I watch the show with see him as untrustworthy and dangerous, but no more so than a lot of the other characters. The depths of his treachery run a lot deeper than they expect, despite the fact that he's very obviously an antagonist, which is a similar result to how I felt about him while reading the book, but achieved in a much different way.

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He's actually nothing like a Bond villain at all. He's more of a mixture between Iago and Roderigo from Shakespear's Othello.

Nah. Iago is a guy who seems genuinely trustworthy - everyone thinks he is an honest fellow, that's why he's able to dupe Othello and everyone else. Only the audience knows the truth, because he shows his true face in his villainous monologues. Littlefinger has villainous monologues on the show, but he doesn't seem honest or trustworthy at all. He does not in the book, either - few people actually trust him or like him; most just tend to overlook him as a danger because he's more subtle than in the show.

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I have a friend who was actually rooting for Littlefinger and Sansa up until his "Chaos" monologue. So yeah, there are definitely people out there that have been blinded by just how evil Littlefinger is.



There shouldn't be any doubt after next season though. ;)

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I have a friend who was actually rooting for Littlefinger and Sansa up until his "Chaos" monologue. So yeah, there are definitely people out there that have been blinded by just how evil Littlefinger is.

There shouldn't be any doubt after next season though. ;)

I don't know . . D and D have done a good job hiding some characters intention and rethinking others in their own image.

The non book readers blindly follow.

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I don't know . . D and D have done a good job hiding some characters intention and rethinking others in their own image.

The non book readers blindly follow.

Right because people aren't allowed to enjoy something that's different on the show than it is in the books, because you "know better." Jeeze Louise.

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