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Season 4 Roundup

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Regarding Theon and his arc in S3, I think you guys should have considered the production aspect as well. It would be pretty hard to expect from an actor to come back to filming the show after a 2-3 year hiatus. Especially since Alfie did an amazing job as Theon imo, he would probably be getting some big money projects in Hollywood so a recast would have been inevitable... And that would really suck, non-readers would have no idea who Reek is and it wouldn't make any sense to them.

And while many people now see the torture scenes as the low point of S3, I think after a couple of seasons when we start seeing Theon's redemption, the S3 arc will be praised in retrospect.

Also, it served as an amazing introduction to Ramsay and the Boltons in general, since we've seen so little of them previously.

Hopefully we will see a similar thing with Rickon's arc in S4, his travels with Osha to the Umbers and Skagos. Just without major WoW spoilers :)

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And while many people now see the torture scenes as the low point of S3, I think after a couple of seasons when we start seeing Theon's redemption, the S3 arc will be praised in retrospect.

This ! Thank you for speaking my mind !

It is a long term arc, but when it fully comes to frutition, it will be worth it !

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  • Returning Cast: Of course all the main cast—well, except the ones whose characters are dead—are returning, but there’s some happy news that a number of alumni of the past seasons will be showing their faces again. Among them? Andy Beckwith, who played Rorge in the 2nd season, Kate Dickie (Lysa Arryn) last seen in the 1st season (though she was to make an appearance in the 3rd season, according to all reports), and best of all (from our perspective), Owen Teale is set to return as Ser Alliser Thorne, former master-at-arms at Castle Black and nemesis of Jon Snow.

But where's his new best friend "Lord" Janos Slynt?

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And while many people now see the torture scenes as the low point of S3, I think after a couple of seasons when we start seeing Theon's redemption, the S3 arc will be praised in retrospect.

Also, it served as an amazing introduction to Ramsay and the Boltons in general, since we've seen so little of them previously.

Not this, at all.

It was highly over done and I think regardless of where Theon's redemption arc takes him it will always be seen as excessive (primarily in screen time but also to a certain extent in terms of content) by pretty much everyone who, today, thinks it was over done, e.g. me.

Unless GRRM has Theon pegged as one of the heads of the Dragon then Theon got way too much screen time in S3.

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Not this, at all.

It was highly over done and I think regardless of where Theon's redemption arc takes him it will always be seen as excessive (primarily in screen time but also to a certain extent in terms of content) by pretty much everyone who, today, thinks it was over done, e.g. me.

Unless GRRM has Theon pegged as one of the heads of the Dragon then Theon got way too much screen time in S3.

Ok, it was overdone in a couple of scenes, I'll give you that. But overall I think it was fine. Ramsay's game, for instance, in E04 I think, was brilliantly written and played, I loved it.

By the way, this is coming from someone who read the books after S3. So while I was watching I had no idea who Ramsay was ofc, and while the torture scenes were a bit hard to watch sometimes, i was still intrigued to find out what the hell is happening and who is that monster. Once it was revealed he was a Bolton it made perfect sense, and I actually thought that was the point of the whole arc.

A couple of months later, I got to the Reek chapter in ADWD, and everything just clicked. As his story progressed I was even more convinced that the extensive torture was a good choice.

Also, I think Theon is one of the most interesting and amazingly written characters and D&D and Alfie are doing him great justice, perhaps the best character adaptation in the show.

Well anyway, I am beginning my re-read and will be doing a re-watch of S3 soon, so my opinion might change. Words are wind :)

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The Theon arc is quite prominent in aDwD, so they did need to visualise it in S3, where it made sense timewise. Some of the torture scenes were probably over-done but at the same time, in the books, they were also very unpleasant.

Hopefully we will see a similar thing with Rickon's arc in S4, his travels with Osha to the Umbers and Skagos. Just without major WoW spoilers :)

I'm not expecting Rickon to feature in S4 but I could be wrong.

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Ok, it was overdone in a couple of scenes, I'll give you that. But overall I think it was fine. Ramsay's game, for instance, in E04 I think, was brilliantly written and played, I loved it.

By the way, this is coming from someone who read the books after S3. So while I was watching I had no idea who Ramsay was ofc, and while the torture scenes were a bit hard to watch sometimes, i was still intrigued to find out what the hell is happening and who is that monster. Once it was revealed he was a Bolton it made perfect sense, and I actually thought that was the point of the whole arc.

A couple of months later, I got to the Reek chapter in ADWD, and everything just clicked. As his story progressed I was even more convinced that the extensive torture was a good choice.

Also, I think Theon is one of the most interesting and amazingly written characters and D&D and Alfie are doing him great justice, perhaps the best character adaptation in the show.

Well anyway, I am beginning my re-read and will be doing a re-watch of S3 soon, so my opinion might change. Words are wind :)

Yeah I thinks it really hard for book readers to see things through the eyes of someone who hasn't read the book, mainly b/c they have the filter of knowing what happens so everything is "really obvious" except that it wouldn't be to many who haven't read the books. The only scene that was overdone was the whore scene and I tend to favor that it was done wrong more then overdone, that the whores were too into it when it would have been better with them being scared. I thought the rest of it was quite well done. You wouldn't be able to please most of the book readers anyway since most of them are peeved that they didn't introduce Ramsey like it was done in the book.

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I'm not expecting Rickon to feature in S4 but I could be wrong.

I don't think so either.

Natalia Tena was asked a long time ago if she had been called up and she said no.

Have heard nothing different since , tho she's working in two movies right now.

Art Parkinson is really gonna look aged up in season 5, does not bother me.

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Yeah I thinks it really hard for book readers to see things through the eyes of someone who hasn't read the book, mainly b/c they have the filter of knowing what happens so everything is "really obvious" except that it wouldn't be to many who haven't read the books. The only scene that was overdone was the whore scene and I tend to favor that it was done wrong more then overdone, that the whores were too into it when it would have been better with them being scared. I thought the rest of it was quite well done. You wouldn't be able to please most of the book readers anyway since most of them are peeved that they didn't introduce Ramsey like it was done in the book.

One of the things with Ramsay is that he has to make an absolutely critical impact on the viewer so that the Bolton's plot line make sense. Roose is cunning, but without Ramsay, it's hard to picture him as sociopathic. In a book, you have the ability to just describe Roose and Ramsay however you like. Communicating via acting on screen is different. You HAVE to give them something to do, give them agency, etc.

That said, I agree with the whore scene... that was a bit too "Game of Thrones-y" for me.

If you don't show Theon's torture, fans will just see it as a Deus Ex Machina - "oh look, it's that guy from Season Two coming back to tie up plot lines".

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The henchwench scene was the only Theon one where I facepalmed. If there had to be some females to lead into Theon's castration, did they have to spoof a porno? It just came across as silly. I didn't like how they instantly became props either. At least give them an apparent reason. Are they sadistic accomplices or scared and trying to save their own skins?

That said, I really like the character tweaks for Ramsay. The fun-loving thespian sadist thing works better on TV than straight-up torturer, but they still showed he can go into beatdown mode in a split second. Plus, Alfie Allen is one of the best actors on the show. I think they could have strung the scenes out over fewer episodes. It wouldn't seem so "and in this isolated neck of the woods" or make the Ramsay reveal seem like such a big deal. I thought each one (aside from the girls) served a purpose though.

Hopefully next season we see Roose and Ramsay interact. There was a kennel picture on Iwan Rheon's instagram but it mysteriously vanished, haha.

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I agree on the tweaks to Ramsey. I actually didn't like book Ramsey as a character much except for the odd wisecracks, so I am glad that they seem to be emphasizing that element to him. Book Ramsey was pretty disgusting to be honest and I don't think playing him as a straight psychopath would have been enjoyable at all. It would have basically been last season's storyline but with very little humor-I don't think that would work.

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Any news?

I don't know if somebody has already posted it - Sansa & Dontos:

http://wicnet.tumblr.com/post/61414050198/sex-dean-and-rocknroll-sophie-turner-during

I was thinking recently that show!Sansa may receive Ser Dontos letter just before Joff's wedding and may decide to accept the mysterious offer after the mess with Joffs's murder. We saw the Godswood already, Sansa was praying there in one of the episodes. I found it interesting that it is placed that near to the sea (can't recall it from the books) - probably Littlefinger will bring his "rescue" boat there...

Some King's Landing stuff - Joff's wedding?

http://wicnet.tumblr.com/post/62177687850/leaked-images-of-the-filming-in-gradac-park

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I was just looking at the casting round up on WIC. Whats up with all the adult film performers being casted this season? Does "adult performer" have a different connotation in Europe? They may be fine actors and very well casted but its something you don't see in the US too often.

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I was just looking at the casting round up on WIC. Whats up with all the adult film performers being casted this season? Does "adult performer" have a different connotation in Europe? They may be fine actors and very well casted but its something you don't see in the US too often.

I think it is just what it seems... hooray for more tits & ass (sarcasm)

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Yeah I thinks it really hard for book readers to see things through the eyes of someone who hasn't read the book, mainly b/c they have the filter of knowing what happens so everything is "really obvious" except that it wouldn't be to many who haven't read the books. The only scene that was overdone was the whore scene and I tend to favor that it was done wrong more then overdone, that the whores were too into it when it would have been better with them being scared. I thought the rest of it was quite well done. You wouldn't be able to please most of the book readers anyway since most of them are peeved that they didn't introduce Ramsey like it was done in the book.

Well going by reactions on the TWoP unspoiled watchers thread I'd say the majority view of the Thjeon scenes were that they were too much, both in terms of "torture porn" and screen time. So opinions that Theon scenes were excessive are not limited to book readers. Ultimately my dislike of the excessive Theon screen time is the effect of spending that time budget there in stead of on other characters / story arcs that got short shrift this season (especially Mance and Tormund, what a travesty!) because Theon got a disproportionate amount of screen time relative the the importance of his character in the over all story. Of course that's assuming Theon will forever remain a secondary character in the grand song of ice and fire. If GRRM has a major role of him in the final 2 (or 3?) books that elevates him to primary character then ultimately perhaps S3 scenes will be justified. As things stand I don't believe GRRM has that in mind for Theon.

My argument is not that Theon scenes were badly done (other than the whore scene). Alfie in particuar is brilliant whenever he's on screen. And for what they were tryibng to do with his story this season they did well. But in the over all context of what S3 could (and arguably should) have done it had a negative effect. IMO. Spreading at least 5 minutes of Theon time between, say, Bran/Rickon, Jon, Cat and Dany and perhaps 2 extra minutes to KL (7 minutes less of Theon, out of the ~ 1/2 hour he got over the entire series) would have made for a more well balanced season, IMO.

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I was just looking at the casting round up on WIC. Whats up with all the adult film performers being casted this season? Does "adult performer" have a different connotation in Europe? They may be fine actors and very well casted but its something you don't see in the US too often.

Well they hired a lot of adult film actors as extras in Spartacus because they couldn't find enough "regular" actors who were willing to display their goods prominently on screen. Not sure whether it was mostly women not wanting to show their lady parts or mostly men not wanting to show their man parts.

It may also be that fewer of the main characters are willing to bare all, so they've got to get their T&A quotient from the extras. Now that Esme Bianco is gone there's very little opportunity to get in any vagina monologues using a named character in the role of vagina display model. It also seems Alfie was the only dude willing to show is meat and two veg, and now that his character has at least lost the meat we don't have a penis display option among the named characters. Unless the new Gregor is willing to show off his horse sized manhood.

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Ultimately my dislike of the excessive Theon screen time is the effect of spending that time budget there in stead of on other characters / story arcs that got short shrift this season (especially Mance and Tormund, what a travesty!) because Theon got a disproportionate amount of screentime.

I can buy that Theon is a secondary character but he is a POV. Mance and Tormund are tertiary characters in comparison.

Bran will always have a small amount of time because it is so in the books. Maybe they could have spent more time on Dany or KL but they were relatively well served already.

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I think Alfie Allen is superb as Theon, the problem is they overdid it.

I still dream of finding the alternate universe where Harry Lloyd was cast as Theon and we get the good-looking always smirking Theon of the books.

Not that I am complaining. Alfie's take is different. But not invalid.

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