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Aegon and the Targaryen Madness (Spoilers upto/from 'The Griffin Reborn' chapter)

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I have to admit I was glad to hear that Rhaegar's son had survived the sack of KL and was making a claim for the Iron Throne - However, I was constantly trying to judge whether he took after his Father more; being mindful and with great royal potential. Or would he take after his Grandfather and succumb to the Targaryen madness?

Part Two of ADWD was started to suggest the latter to me - With Aegon being manipulated by Tyrion to head west and intending on leading the siege of Storms End by himself -These decisions didn't feel like the sort that Rhaegar or Daenerys would have made, but more what Viserys or Aerys would.

What do you think?

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He seems like he could be a hot head (wanted to lead the storming of Storms End) but at that age, it may be normal, also he doesn't want to be the sort of king that lets others fight his battle for him: he wants to be involved. So is he more Joffrey or Robb? Both wanted to be involved too (Cersei prevented Joffrey from it, but Catelyn let Robb lead the fray).

I don't think it means he is mad. I think he is less of a ditherer than Dany, but surely that's a good thing!

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Aegon has been raised since day one to act, think, and be a king. Varys said it himself in the epilogue. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, and he is a Targaryen which makes him more likely to be welcomed with open arms in the falling apart world of Westeros. Dany is a great individual but she has never been destined to sit the Iron Throne, she is destined to save the world from impending darkness. Aegon isn't mad like Aerys, he is quick to anger and even quicker to action. The reason he wants to lead the assault on Storms End is to show he is the one leading the surge for the Iron Throne. But you must remember Quaithe's propechy and "the mummer's farce". That could either point to the Green Grace and Hizdahr or to Varys, Illyirio and what they are doing with this Aegon.

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Doesn't the Targaryen madness set in later in life? Aerys wasn't crazy in the beginning. In his youth, he was described as charming, generous, handsome and resolute. The only thing was that he was somewhat quick to anger, but there are more men that are quick to anger that aren't crazy. Only when he became older, in the later part in his reign, he became suspicious, cruel, and did he have furious outbursts.



I think both Dany and Aegon VI are way too young to show any signs of Targaryen madness, if they have it. Some say that Rhaegar taking Lyanna Stark was a form of the Targaryen madness, and he had never shown any signs of madness before.



Both Aegon and Dany are young, and that will influence their decisions. They want to lead the attack, especially Aegon, since men have a more fighting position. If either one of them has some Targaryen madness, which I don't believe, they'll probably only let it show when they are much older.


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In my understanding Aerys had schizophrenia, that's why he went mad crazy.

Do you know of any quotes from the book that support that theory? Because if he really had schizophrenia, I totally missed that.

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Do you know of any quotes from the book that support that theory? Because if he really had schizophrenia, I totally missed that.

TBH, I remember some sayings about he hearing voices and stuff, If I'm not mistaken it's mentioned by Jorah.. I may be mistaken though, but I got that idea out of somewhere so I guess something is in the book huh?

Edit:

Aerys II himself, while remembered as "the Mad King", was perfectly sane even as a young adult, but as the years passed had lapses into unstable behavior which gradually grew worse and worse, and longer in duration. Many were willing to ignore these eccentric episodes when they passed, but by his mid-40's Aerys had become completely unstable, hearing voices that weren't there, becoming irrationally paranoid, and burning men alive for his own amusement.

Aerys II suffered from some sort of paranoid schizophrenia, hearing voices in his head which weren't real which told him to burn people alive because they were all plotting against him.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Targaryen_madness

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I have to admit I was glad to hear that Rhaegar's son had survived the sack of KL and was making a claim for the Iron Throne - However, I was constantly trying to judge whether he took after his Father more; being mindful and with great royal potential. Or would he take after his Grandfather and succumb to the Targaryen madness?

Part Two of ADWD was started to suggest the latter to me - With Aegon being manipulated by Tyrion to head west and intending on leading the siege of Storms End by himself -These decisions didn't feel like the sort that Rhaegar or Daenerys would have made, but more what Viserys or Aerys would.

What do you think?

Don't assume that Aegon is like Viserys and Aerys just because he may be a bit bolder than Rhaegar. Aegon has qualities like Rhaegar such as knowledge of the faith, history of westeros, multiple languages, and survival. He is a bit bold but he sounds like the Young Dragon in that sense (Wanting to lead the attack of Storm's End).

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I have to admit I was glad to hear that Rhaegar's son had survived the sack of KL and was making a claim for the Iron Throne - However, I was constantly trying to judge whether he took after his Father more; being mindful and with great royal potential. Or would he take after his Grandfather and succumb to the Targaryen madness?

Part Two of ADWD was started to suggest the latter to me - With Aegon being manipulated by Tyrion to head west and intending on leading the siege of Storms End by himself -These decisions didn't feel like the sort that Rhaegar or Daenerys would have made, but more what Viserys or Aerys would.

What do you think?

Don't assume that Aegon is like Viserys and Aerys just because he may be a bit bolder than Rhaegar. Aegon has qualities like Rhaegar such as knowledge of the faith, history of westeros, multiple languages, and survival. He is a bit bold but he sounds like the Young Dragon in that sense (Wanting to lead the attack of Storm's End).

I think Daenerys is certainly capable to be manipulated by Tyrion. Sure, she's getting a bit better at the game, but she doesn't have the cunning, and Tyrion does. Plus, Tyrion is very convincing. So I wouldn't be so sure about Daenerys not being open to manipulation.

Rhaegar didn't make smart decisions either, now did he? He took a girl, whether she went voluntairly or by force, which started an entire war. He must have known there was a war, because the entire Kingdom was fighting amongst itself, yet he stayed away for the biggest part of it. Since we don't know what moved him to do so, I can't really judge his actions, though I certainly have my speculations.

But we do know what moved Dany to make the choices that she made. Sure, in hindsight, she made poor choices as well, but because we know why she made those choises, we (or at the very least I) are capable of understanding her decisions. She has been allowed to lead for several years now, and she cares a lot about people, and wants to set every wrong in the world right, but she needs to learn that something like that will never be capable of happening. It's a noble goal, but we're talking about humans, and there will always be humans who will think differently than Daenerys about slavery and such.

Next comes Aegon. He's been allowed to make decisions for about a month or two. Of course he's been dying to get some action. He's a eighteen year old boy, who's been taught about how his mother was raped and murdered, how his father and sister were murdered, and how he's supposed to lead the Seven Kingdoms. He's been sort of locked up on a small boat for all those years, undergoing training. And now his war is finally starting. These are his men who are going into battle. Instead of sending men off to die, he's leading them during the battle. It's the same as Robb did, because Robb always took part in his battles, and he always choose to be involved in the most dangerous part.

When Joffrey fled the scene of the Blackwater, the soldiers defending the city lost all of their hopes. Having your King present, is a boost for moral. It showed leadership. How can you expect people to respect a king who won't even defend them? Who constantly sends others to do his bidding?

Yes, Aegon got easily manipulated by Tyrion... But no one had taught him something like that, now have they? No one on that boat has ever tried to manipulate him in such fashion. They were there to raise him, and Tyrion, who has just joined the group and is a bit bitter about life right now (understandable), decides to teach Aegon a lesson here. Tyrion is right, a Queen will look down upon a boy who needs her help to become a King. But a King and a Queen can wed as equals, and rule as equals. If Dany has to win Aegons throne for him, his rule still won't be secure.

Dany doesn't lead her armies because she's a woman who hasn't had any training in the arts of war. Going at the head of an army unarmed, and untrained, you're almost certain to die. Rhaegar went to the Trident - and lead the Targaryen armies there. It has been stated in the books that the second Rhaegar died, most men threw down their weapons and fled. Rhaegar was what was holding the Targaryen army at the Trident together. He was leading them.

Viserys was a coward. He wanted the throne, but I doubt he would have lead his army of savages. He probably would have watched them fight from a distance, commenting on every little thing they did, and never being truly satisfied.

Viserys was also a bit paranoid, probably with reason. He had been running from killers his entire life, and everyone would feast him, listen to his pleas and then send him off, laughing all the while. He had lost everything he had. So when Illyrio came along, Viserys was glad to hear there was at least one man willing to help him. And ever since he believed everything Illyrio said. So Viserys was being manipulated as well.

Aerys was even worse, thanks to his paranoia. Barristan Selmy once thinks to himself, that if a severed head would have been thrown at Aerys' feet as he sat upon the throne, he probably would have shrieked away and cut himself on the blades while doing so. He wasn't a brave man, at least not at the end of his life. He had mental problems, and no one was willing to help him with it.

When Aerys was young, however, he road into Duskendale himself to sort things out, when troubles arised. This was a terrible plan, since he was taken prisoner for six months. So he had some courage when he was young, but a traumatic event broke every single inch of it.

Viserys and Aerys were not the bravest of men, and their decisions weren't the best ones, even those which were made for a good cause. Daenerys and Rhaegar also made bad decisions, but that's not to say they didn't make any good ones. The fact that Aegon could be manipulated doesn't mean he's going to go crazy like Aerys did, like Viserys was a little bit. It only means that he's young and inexperienced, like Daenerys. He's still learning, just like she is. The only difference between Aegon and Daenerys, compared to, let's say, Viserys here, is that both Aegon and Daenerys are still open for some advice. Viserys ignored every advice Illyrio gave him after Daenerys wed, and he refused to listen to Dany and Jorah thereafter as well. Aegon and Dany are willing to listen to the people around them, learning where they can. And they lead their people, earning their respect.

So I believe Aegon to be more like Dany, and absolutely nothing like Viserys or Aerys. Rhaegar, I suspect, is something in between. But that's a whole other theory :)

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In my understanding Aerys had schizophrenia, that's why he went mad crazy.

Probably Aerys suffered of some sort of porphyria, due to centuries of inbreeding (just as many european monarchs in the past).

But there's no evidence of what his disease was in the books, everything is just speculation.

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I always thought Aerys madness had less to do with a disease and was more due to trauma from being held hostage and threatened with death for months.



Most people held hostage that long don't come out too well.


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I think of this as being more just the actions of a young man. Young men tend to not want people to look at them as being willing to simply hide while other men fight their battles for them. Especially in the middle ages, it would be a sign of serious cowardice for a late teen-young man to allow his army and he will need people to think good of him since he will need to get other lords to his cause.


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