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is jon's resurrection the only way?


Igziabeher

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Any streak one day will break.

Jon has to stay dead because

- thanks to the prologue we know he will live on in Ghost (and Ghost is much cooler than Jon).

- Melisandre saw him in her visions from man to wolf to man. And we know how her visions turn out.

- After all this near death cliffhangers someone needs to stay dead.

- Jon rhymes with gone

- that Melisandre POV was introduced on purpose. We need eyes at the wall when Jon is gone.

- the lone wolf dies. Bran has the CotF pack. Arya the Faceless Men pack. Rickon the Skagos pack (?), at least Osha, Sansa the Littlefinger pack and Jon?

- everytime a male Stark beheads someone, the male Stark dies.

- Ygritte is dead as well.

So the shitlode of Jon chapters equal him dying like some back alley whore? Atleast let him die a heros death.

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Any streak one day will break.

Jon has to stay dead because

- thanks to the prologue we know he will live on in Ghost (and Ghost is much cooler than Jon).

- Melisandre saw him in her visions from man to wolf to man. And we know how her visions turn out.

- After all this near death cliffhangers someone needs to stay dead.

- Jon rhymes with gone

- that Melisandre POV was introduced on purpose. We need eyes at the wall when Jon is gone.

- the lone wolf dies. Bran has the CotF pack. Arya the Faceless Men pack. Rickon the Skagos pack (?), at least Osha, Sansa the Littlefinger pack and Jon?

- everytime a male Stark beheads someone, the male Stark dies.

- Ygritte is dead as well.

Yea mostly wrong LOL :devil:

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The idea of him warging Ghost and then warging his body after it rises as a wight is more interesting to me. For one it would give us the numerously mentioned Ice Dragon. If R+L=J then it would fit with all the dragon dreams, like the ones in the D&E stories. Also it would finally give us a chance to see the motivations of the Others, Jon would once again be playing a double role and spying on the Others for the NW.

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I've always been a big fan of the coma angle. I feel it can be used for multiple purposes. Jon can learn more about his warging abilities, be contacted by Bran and Bloodraven, etc. The whole dead and resurrection angle is tired and lazy in my opinion. GRRM is better than that.

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Any streak one day will break.

Jon has to stay dead because

- thanks to the prologue we know he will live on in Ghost (and Ghost is much cooler than Jon).

- Melisandre saw him in her visions from man to wolf to man. And we know how her visions turn out.

- After all this near death cliffhangers someone needs to stay dead.

- Jon rhymes with gone

- that Melisandre POV was introduced on purpose. We need eyes at the wall when Jon is gone.

- the lone wolf dies. Bran has the CotF pack. Arya the Faceless Men pack. Rickon the Skagos pack (?), at least Osha, Sansa the Littlefinger pack and Jon?

- everytime a male Stark beheads someone, the male Stark dies.

- Ygritte is dead as well.

-We knew that skinchangers survive in their beasts long before the prologue thanks to Orell. One of the wildlings speak about it in Jon's chapters. The prologue is more about giving context to what Bran's doing.

-Man to wolf to man can easily be used to describe warging. It also works if Jon's in coma and spends a period of time in Ghost.

-That's not how cliffhangers work.

-It also rhymes with lawn, prawn, pawn, yawn, anon, dawn, and fawn. Clearly, Jon is also going to become one with the grass, warg a shrimp and a deer, wield Dawn, yawn a few more times, play cevasse, and dance with someone later.

-I thought it was introduced to give us a look into the mind of one of the more ambiguous characters around. I suppose we'll be seeing Daenerys die soon as well; now that we have Barristan, there's no need for her POV.

-The wildling pack because if you're counting Littlefinger as Sansa's pack, then there's no way you can't count Tormund and Val as part of Jon's.

-Any streak one day will break ;)

-Drogo died in the first book, but Daenerys is still around.

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Jon has to stay dead because

- thanks to the prologue we know he will live on in Ghost (and Ghost is much cooler than Jon).

- Melisandre saw him in her visions from man to wolf to man. And we know how her visions turn out.

- After all this near death cliffhangers someone needs to stay dead.

- Jon rhymes with gone

- that Melisandre POV was introduced on purpose. We need eyes at the wall when Jon is gone.

- the lone wolf dies. Bran has the CotF pack. Arya the Faceless Men pack. Rickon the Skagos pack (?), at least Osha, Sansa the Littlefinger pack and Jon?

- everytime a male Stark beheads someone, the male Stark dies.

- Ygritte is dead as well.

Let's see:

- Or Varamyr's prologue was only there to show us that he sensed Jon's great warging powers, plus show us that the wights are taking over the land beyond the Wall, all of which are, you know, important plot points making this Prologue necessary.

- Mel has been seeing the right things, she's just interpreting them wrong. It's important that this vision we saw it through her POV, unfiltered by her interpretation, so we can make our own assumptions :P

- Who says that resurrection/false deaths is not THE theme of the series? And a series without its main theme is like vampires who don't drink blood (oh sh...)

- not sure if trolling...

- If that were true nothing stops GRRM from introducing Mel's POVs after Jon is gone from the Wall.

- Not a strong argument in many ways, but Jon also has the wildling pack? and Stannis pack? And those at the Wall who still like him as LC? Pick and choose.

- Well this argument is wrong on two levels: a. Jon is not a Stark (:P :P :P) b. a classic case of confirmation bias, if Ned's words are true, then Starks have been beheading people left right and centre for thousands of years with no evidence they died soon after that.

- Ygritte is dead, and? Please let's inform all the widows and widowers of the world that their demise is near.

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I'm not crazy about the whole ice cell theory. I mean, I'm no doctor, but sticking a wounded man in an ice cell would only kill him faster I should think. It would certainly preserve a corpse, yes, but isn't cryogenics a bit more of a controlled process than just sticking someone in the freezer? He's not a packet of peas.

I think he's not dead from the stabbing, but the event will force him to warg Ghost and abandon his resistance to his gift. He might return to his recovering body and find himself in a bed in the King's Tower, straddled by Mel who wants to make more shadow-babies???

I don't mind the idea of him warging back into his body after it rises as a wight. Jon Wolfwalker draws a nice parallel with the whole ice-dragon thing above. I think I'd prefer that than him return to a resurrected Beric-style fire wight. Either way, I think he's coming back for certain and I hope he gloves-off kicks some ass when he returns. Kill the boy!!!

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My money's been on he just survives it,But the damn Prologue would make no sense if he does.

Yeah I agree. The prologue sure seemed to suggest that Jon will die and then warg into Ghost. Not to mentioned didn't Mel see something like a man, a wolf, then a man again? Again suggesting that he wargs into Ghost and then is resurrected.

I'm not sure he's dead though like you. He was stabbed with daggers which wearing a good bit of clothing. It's not like he had multiple swords go through him completely.

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I'm not crazy about the whole ice cell theory. I mean, I'm no doctor, but sticking a wounded man in an ice cell would only kill him faster I should think. It would certainly preserve a corpse, yes, but isn't cryogenics a bit more of a controlled process than just sticking someone in the freezer? He's not a packet of peas.

I think he's not dead from the stabbing, but the event will force him to warg Ghost and abandon his resistance to his gift. He might return to his recovering body and find himself in a bed in the King's Tower, straddled by Mel who wants to make more shadow-babies???

I don't mind the idea of him warging back into his body after it rises as a wight. Jon Wolfwalker draws a nice parallel with the whole ice-dragon thing above. I think I'd prefer that than him return to a resurrected Beric-style fire wight. Either way, I think he's coming back for certain and I hope he gloves-off kicks some ass when he returns. Kill the boy!!!

IfJon dies, they are going to burn the body well before he can rise as a wight. Both the NW and the wildlings are aware of how wights rise.

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IfJon dies, they are going to burn the body well before he can rise as a wight. Both the NW and the wildlings are aware of how wights rise.

There's already two dead bodies at Castle Black that haven't been burned.

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I think he wargs into Ghost to stay alive, but I think Bloodraven and Bran will help resurrect him. In the Theon TWOW sample chapter

there are ravens going "tree" and "Theon" after Asha suggests to Stannis that he should kill Theon in front of some Weirwoods. So I think that Bloodraven and Bran need a blood sacrifice to resurrect Jon. But before Theon is beheaded he remembers what Luwin said and he requests to join the NW. He is then allowed to. But later on in the Battle in Ice, Asha is cornered against a Weirwood and killed. The blood on the Weirwood, and mixing with the sap, will help Bloodraven and Bran resurrect Jon.

All credit goes to Fire Eater, whose theory this is.

To add to that

The stewards had long ago discovered that food and meat kept longer in the icy storerooms carved from the base of the Wall . . . but prisoners did not. "You will die in here Lord Snow," Ser Alliser Thorne had said

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt."

Jon is put into a coma by the stabbings, and Marsh mistakes a comatose Jon for a dead one and moves him to the ice cells next to the smoked and salted meats. The red star is Ser Partek whose sigil is a star, and is a follower of the Red God. Lord Snow will die in the ice cells, and a new Jon will be reborn.

When the man's flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains."

"I fear no ghosts. Dragons are more powerful than ghosts."

Jon's spirit will be in Ghost while he's out, but his spirit/will is strong enough to keep him from dissipating into Ghost and remain intact.

Did a bit of a search, couldn't see that anything has been posted and don't know if Martin has ever made reference to it, forgive me if it's old news.

Follow the link to the Russian Garlan... d, a collection of Russian chap-book folk stories. I've read about half of them, honestly they're a bit of a struggle. A few passing mentions raise an eyebrow like Bulat the Brave Companion, Emelyan the fool and a comically brief appearance by a three headed dragon, but the headliner is the most interesting, brave, noble and creepy sleep watcher Lyubim is betrayed and murdered by his brothers only to be resurrected by the winged wolf and justice had by all.

http://www.akirarabe...an/garland.html

Jon, a prince, is "killed" by his brothers, and Bran, the winged wolf, and BR will move to save him. Jon will receive a vision like Bran did during his coma. Jon will descend into the crypts in his dream, and confront his fears and go down the steps.

When the time comes, I will tell him myself.

He will meet an image/apparition of Ned who tells Jon the truth about his parentage, like Arthur's foster father, Sir Ector, told Arthur about his true parentage. He may even possibly meet his mother, Lyanna.

Under the sea the crows are white as snow.

The light of the half-moon turned Val's honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow.

Jon did not intend to be remembered as Sleepy Jon Snow.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

This is a reference to "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" as the dwarfs thought she was dead when she was in a coma, and she was kept in a glass coffin (Jon sees ice scarping off the Wall and thinks of glass gardens). The story of the prince kissing the princess who then awakes is "Sleeping Beauty", also known as "The Little Briar Rose" with Jon being the blue rose given R+L and Dany's vision at the HotU. I know BR and Bran will help Jon, and when that happens Jon will wake up the moment Val, called the "wildling princess," kisses him.

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