N/A Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't know why so many people hate Sansa and Catelyni love them "too much" according to my friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Shenron Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I don't know why so many people hate Sansa and CatelynSansa I can see, but Catelyn? I love Catelyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 it was a bad situation i know but how do you suggest he gets them back into the fold they were already attacked by the fold before robb even marched and remember that it was Joff sitting the throne he would want blood (tywin might quell that but he might fail )The Riverlords should have joined Renly, and then Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Sansa I can see, but Catelyn?A ton of people think she is why Robb lost the war. Which is retarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 A ton of people think she is why Robb lost the war. Which is retardedShe and Ned put Robb in a pretty terrible position. At the end of AGOT, basically she tells Robb sorry about the mess me and Ned put you in. However basically all you have to do is now go defeat Tywin and Jaime Lannister in battle. By the way they also outnumber your forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The Riverlords should have joined Renly, and then Stannisrenly was unwilling to join stannis the ideal situation would have been for renly to join stannis and then march up to the river lands (leave a token force to keep the rose road shut and keep starving KL) then they would have had tywin surrounded with robb cutting off his escape rout they would have destroyed him and then go back to KL and take it ( they might even find it open due to a revolt by the starving people ) and then seat stannis on his throne and happily ever after stuff but this is GrrMso NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 A will made under false pretenses (Bran and Rickon being "dead") and which violates ancient laws (you can't desert the Wall) is not a "done deal"We know what Robb knows about his legitimate brothers' deaths, but we don't know whether the will is based under false pretenses. It all matters how Robb cited it. Whether he names Jon as an heir due to not having legitimate heir, or Bran and Rickon aren't mentioned in the will. Also, let us not forget that will legitimizes Jon, and that's not preconditioned by Bran or Rickon being dead... As for Wall and NW, I believe we'll see chaos happening there after Jon's stabbing.i already argued that he couldn't have done it without some serious consequencesThis was always poor excuse for his actions. If those bannermen made you King, then they will abide to every decision you make, like it or not. And we even see that few of them had problems with Cat when he released Jaime. GreatJon, Blackfish, Mormont ladies, they all supported her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 We know what Robb knows about his legitimate brothers' deaths, but we don't know whether the will is based under false pretenses. It all matters how Robb cited it. Whether he names Jon as an heir due to not having legitimate heir, or Bran and Rickon aren't mentioned in the will. Also, let us not forget that will legitimizes Jon, and that's not preconditioned by Bran or Rickon being dead... As for Wall and NW, I believe we'll see chaos happening there after Jon's stabbing.As Daemon Blackfyre and Lady Jane Grey found out, wills or the wishes of kings don't mean much when they go against hundreds/thousands of years, of procedure. Any Lord that supports Jon over Bran or Rickon knows they are placing their families future on the line. Any oldest son that supports Jon must realise that his inheritance may one day be given to another. It will lead to chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherbeef Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Bran has had previous experience ruling Winterfell AND is a bright and kind kid AND will know everything. What else could you want in a ruler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 As Daemon Blackfyre and Lady Jane Grey found out, wills or the wishes of kings don't mean much when they go against hundreds/thousands of years, of procedure. Any Lord that supports Jon over Bran or Rickon knows they are placing their families future on the line. Any oldest son that supports Jon must realise that his inheritance may one day be given to another. It will lead to chaos.But we are not talking about some Dance of direwolves here. Once Jon finds out his brother is alive, he will step down. Heck, he did it for Sansa, why wouldn't he do that for Rickon. There will be no clashing between the two of them. Most likely, some lords will support Jon due to the will, and once Rickon comes out, Jon will take the regency until Rickon comes of age, and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 We know what Robb knows about his legitimate brothers' deaths, but we don't know whether the will is based under false pretenses. It all matters how Robb cited it. Whether he names Jon as an heir due to not having legitimate heir, or Bran and Rickon aren't mentioned in the will. Also, let us not forget that will legitimizes Jon, and that's not preconditioned by Bran or Rickon being dead... As for Wall and NW, I believe we'll see chaos happening there after Jon's stabbing.This was always poor excuse for his actions. If those bannermen made you King, then they will abide to every decision you make, like it or not. And we even see that few of them had problems with Cat when he released Jaime. GreatJon, Blackfish, Mormont ladies, they all supported her...it's not poor it's reality"“I can’t release the Kingslayer, not even if I wanted to. My lords would never abide it.”“Your lords made you their king.”“And can unmake me just as easy.”they made him king after a ton of victories and the karstarks left how many would have left if he traded after the whispering wood without the ton the answer is too many even if he marched back north he would have civil war most like because of his lords not respecting his authority i understand that it could have been done but the cost was too great and at that point it seemed like robb would win the war we all thought so so why would he agree to a deal that tilted his opponents cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Summer Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Bran. I hope he does not get stuck in that tree. He should have it. He could be Lord of Winterfell with Jon as his regent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 But we are not talking about some Dance of direwolves here. Once Jon finds out his brother is alive, he will step down. Heck, he did it for Sansa, why wouldn't he do that for Rickon. There will be no clashing between the two of them. Most likely, some lords will support Jon due to the will, and once Rickon comes out, Jon will take the regency until Rickon comes of age, and that's that.Who knows what Jon will be like if he gets resurrected. Before his assassination this may have been the case, but if he is brought back he may be colder and harsher. If Jon had not been killed that would be the likely case, but so many things are far from certain. I think Martin has pretty much confirmed that dead characters don't come back the same as they were before, so either Jon somehow survives or he is going to be a different Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 But we are not talking about some Dance of direwolves here. Once Jon finds out his brother is alive, he will step down. Heck, he did it for Sansa, why wouldn't he do that for Rickon. There will be no clashing between the two of them. Most likely, some lords will support Jon due to the will, and once Rickon comes out, Jon will take the regency until Rickon comes of age, and that's that.i agree with you but sons are not their fathers jon would've stepped down but would his sons and grandsons when he's dead ? Cat's decision was correct in general but robb had no choice in the current situation legitimizing jon was the right choice also since we're probably not gonna see the future after the story what i said won't come into play so as i said i agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 it's not poor it's reality"“I can’t release the Kingslayer, not even if I wanted to. My lords would never abide it.”“Your lords made you their king.”“And can unmake me just as easy.”they made him king after a ton of victories and the karstarks left how many would have left if he traded after the whispering wood without the tonthe answer is too many even if he marched back north he would have civil war most like because of his lords not respecting his authorityi understand that it could have been done but the cost was too great and at that point it seemed like robb would win the war we all thought so so why would he agree to a deal that tilted his opponents cupJust, because Robb said it does not mean it's true. Marrying off his sisters/Bran and Rickon would help sort the problems. Declaring himself king of the North and making it independent would satisfy the others like the Umbars. Ultimately they were only fighting to gain a peace for the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Just, because Robb said it does not mean it's true. Marrying off his sisters/Bran and Rickon would help sort the problems. Declaring himself king of the North and making it independent would satisfy the others like the Umbars. Ultimately they were only fighting to gain a peace for the Riverlands.the riverlands are his blood just like Sansa and arya how could he fight for them but not for his uncles that's hypocrisy and the young wolf was no hypocrite (Lysa was a lunatic so she was the exception not the rule) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 the riverlands are his blood just like Sansa and aryahow could he fight for them but not for his uncles that's hypocrisy and the young wolf was no hypocrite (Lysa was a lunatic so she was the exception not the rule)It's not hypocrisy. Uncles are sisters, now were they Starks and under his protection. What's the point in Robb fighting a war he cannot win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 it's not poor it's reality"“I can’t release the Kingslayer, not even if I wanted to. My lords would never abide it.”“Your lords made you their king.”“And can unmake me just as easy.”they made him king after a ton of victories and the karstarks left how many would have left if he traded after the whispering wood without the tonthe answer is too many even if he marched back north he would have civil war most like because of his lords not respecting his authorityi understand that it could have been done but the cost was too great and at that point it seemed like robb would win the war we all thought so so why would he agree to a deal that tilted his opponents cupBut we have seen what happened when Jaime was released. Only Karstarks abandoned him. He could have found the way out of it. And that's his excuse. Robb has no legitimate proof of what he says. I doubt anyone would leave him if he did it. He already established authority over Northern lords, and Riverlords didn't have much choice...Just, because Robb said it does not mean it's true. Marrying off his sisters/Bran and Rickon would help sort the problems. Declaring himself king of the North and making it independent would satisfy the others like the Umbars. Ultimately they were only fighting to gain a peace for the Riverlands.We agree... Hallelujah once more :)Who knows what Jon will be like if he gets resurrected. Before his assassination this may have been the case, but if he is brought back he may be colder and harsher. If Jon had not been killed that would be the likely case, but so many things are far from certain. I think Martin has pretty much confirmed that dead characters don't come back the same as they were before, so either Jon somehow survives or he is going to be a different Jon.And back to disagreement. Remember what Aemon said. Fire consumes, ice perserves. I doubt we'll see Jon being resurrected as Cat, especially with Mel's vision, and ravens in Theon's chapter in TWOW. So, I doubt we'll see some version of UnJon... And GRRM said that for those resurrected by R'hllor priests...i agree with you but sons are not their fathersjon would've stepped down but would his sons and grandsons when he's dead ?Cat's decision was correct in general but robb had no choice in the current situation legitimizing jon was the right choicealso since we're probably not gonna see the future after the story what i said won't come into play so as i said i agree with youNow you go too far... I am talking about current situation. I doubt we'll see sons, grandons and others playing any Game. Story will end with this generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maidenpool? Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Sansa... Bran will be king and Rickon will be the loopy uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I feel so sorry for Bran. I just wish his story would turn around, and he would somehow become lord of WF instead of turning into a tree. I mean technically, he is the King in the North right now...But there could be a bittersweet compromise. Maybe Bran's final seat will be at Winterfell, beneath the Heart Tree. He would rule WF in all but name, for generations from that weirwood network.Only way I'd want Sansa to inherit is if her heirs carry the Stark name, not whoever she marries.So aside from Bran, I'd want Rickon to take WF, with either Jon or Wyman Manderly as regent. I don't know why so many people hate Sansa and CatelynSansa's kind of meh, although she's getting better. Hating Catelyn makes no sense, because she is one of the top characters in the series (imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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