Rhaegar dying for his love

[Anath]

And I hear the prince he thought was TPTWP died!

Collateral damage. Absolutely worth it if it would save the world.

Probably absolutely worth it in Rhaegar's eyes as well. After all, the kid was not TPTWP. And he was not even his luuv's child.

[UtherSnow]

Yeah, dude believed in dragons and...get this, lol from what I hear, a coming Zombie Appocalypse!

Currently listening to White Zombie! Coincidence or what? If ever Rob Zombie makes a dragon movie..... Hmmm? Now that's a thought. Would it be about a Zombie Dragon? Wouldn't that liven things up in Westeros or Essos!! There again, would GRRM go with it? Doubtful.

[Pigeon Pie]

Just as it is told as common knowledge between the rebels (or former rebels) that Rhaegar had kidnapped Lyanna and raped her, it must have been told as common knowledge between the royalists and loyalists that he actually loved her. That's how Viserys knew, and therefore how Dany knew.

And she still hates the Starks because they rebelled against her father and contributed to the murder of her brother and the exile of her other brother and mother and herself. Duh.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Viserys is a lot like Joffrey in his reasoning a king can do anything he wants slavery, rape, torture .Dany just believes what she was told.Rhaegar did not die for his love, he was just a victim of events.I don't think he died with Lyanna's name on his lips moe than likely it was either Elia or Rhaenys who was trapped at King's Landing and likely to face a siege.

[Pigeon Pie]

Collateral damage. Absolutely worth it if it would save the world.

Probably absolutely worth it in Rhaegar's eyes as well. After all, the kid was not TPTWP. And he was not even his luuv's child.

When was it implied that R didn't care about his children by Elia? Also TPTWP or not, they clearly WERE still important to the prophesy as the other two heads of the dragon.

[Boarsbane]

When was it implied that R didn't care about his children by Elia? Also TPTWP or not, they clearly WERE still important to the prophesy as the other two heads of the dragon.

Leaving them alone for a year with Aerys while he was in Dorne screwing another woman. If he did have any affection for them he was able to overlook it easy enough in favor of his new Northern tail.

[Anath]

When was it implied that R didn't care about his children by Elia? Also TPTWP or not, they clearly WERE still important to the prophesy as the other two heads of the dragon.

ASOIAF is all about symbolics. Rhaegar left 3 KG with his pregnant whatever, sparing 0 for his children by his political marriage and their mother. KG are first and above all about the royal family and it's made very clear in the entire context. Rhaegar showed who he considered his family. He didn't even bother to tell Jaime that he was leaving him to protect Elia and her children who were nominally still a part of the royal family. No, he made it perfectly clear that he didn't take Jaime with his precious self only because he couldn't possibly leave Aerys without his crutch.

Rhaegar was also all about harp and songs, managing to impress Lyanna with his harp. He could not be bothered to write a song for his son, he could only talk about TPWWP. Sitting apart from mother and child, mind you. And if he had finally realized that Aegon wasn't TPWWP, he might have realized that Aegon and Rhaenys wouldn't be heads of the dragon. Such a sad thing, their fate *insert a small sad sigh* But alas, the greater good requires sacrifices.

After all, even Jaime's dream is a good indicator as to who, in Jaime's opinion, really cared about the children. Lewyn Martell fought for them and blamed him for their deaths. Rhaegar made it all about Rhaegar, as usual. I left my wife and children in your hands. How could you make me sad by letting them be killed?

[Anath]

Leaving them alone for a year with Aerys while he was in Dorne screwing another woman. If he did have any affection for them he was able to overlook it easy enough in favor of his new Northern tail.

Don't forget leaving them with Aerys after he returned. At this point, Aerys did everything Rhaegar suggested. So sad that Rhaegar didn't dare take away his ol' man's crutch (other than Jaime, of course). Again, something else was more important than their safety.

Of course, Rhaegar might have been totally cool with the idea anyway. He needed Dorne, after all. Daddy had yet to harm the children, so no big deal leaving them hostages.

[SerCas]

I've always automatically assumed it was Lyanna but really you're right, it is a pretty quick assumption to make because we as readers have been already piecing together the whole Rhaegar/Lyanna business.

There's obviously stories being told about it all. Everyone witnessed Lyanna get Rhaegar's favor at the tourney. Since this is the Targaryen version of events (told by her brother of course), they'd romanticize the alleged kidnapping even if it WAS a kidnapping. Dany hasn't had anyone to tell her the truth of thing until Selmy came about.

[Pigeon Pie]

Leaving them alone for a year with Aerys while he was in Dorne screwing another woman. If he did have any affection for them he was able to overlook it easy enough in favor of his new Northern tail.

ASOIAF is all about symbolics. Rhaegar left 3 KG with his pregnant whatever, sparing 0 for his children by his political marriage and their mother. KG are first and above all about the royal family and it's made very clear in the entire context. Rhaegar showed who he considered his family. He didn't even bother to tell Jaime that he was leaving him to protect Elia and her children who were nominally still a part of the royal family. No, he made it perfectly clear that he didn't take Jaime with his precious self only because he couldn't possibly leave Aerys without his crutch.

Rhaegar was also all about harp and songs, managing to impress Lyanna with his harp. He could not be bothered to write a song for his son, he could only talk about TPWWP. Sitting apart from mother and child, mind you. And if he had finally realized that Aegon wasn't TPWWP, he might have realized that Aegon and Rhaenys wouldn't be heads of the dragon. Such a sad thing, their fate *insert a small sad sigh* But alas, the greater good requires sacrifices.

After all, even Jaime's dream is a good indicator as to who, in Jaime's opinion, really cared about the children. Lewyn Martell fought for them and blamed him for their deaths. Rhaegar made it all about Rhaegar, as usual. I left my wife and children in your hands. How could you make me sad by letting them be killed?

Actually, I think Rhaegar was leaving his wife and children with more protection that he and Lyanna had, much more, in fact.

Leaving them in the Red Keep should have been the safest scenario. His escape with Lyanna should have been seen as pretty assholic by her family and her fiance and his wife, it indeed should have caused some political shit, but alone, it shouldn't have resulted in a full scale rebellion, period. If it weren't for crazy Aerys killing R and B and demanding the heads of N and R, things would never have gotten near a siege and murder of the royal family.

So, when he left them, he must have thought "I'm taking two very skilled knights with me, but I'm leaving my wife and children with another 5, all of the other crown's men, basically an entire army protecting them." Not to mention his decision to lead the royal army later. Late or not, this IS a courageous decision that many wouldn't have taken (maybe stand in the rear or not go at all and once he's couped the throne from Aerys no one would dare blame him, and yet he decided to lead the freaking army). He thought he was going to win, to prevent the siege, to protect those he cared about. He thought he was preventing the murder. I highly doubt he went there for Lyanna alone. He died after a chain of events caused by his love for her (and not even that alone but more on that later), yes, but it's logical to think that he went with that army because he wanted also to protect his family. And should things go bad and he loses, I think he'd expected that his family and the king would escape in a scenario similar to Viserys and Rhaella, I don't think he'd anticipated the Lannisters' betrayal any more than Aerys had.

Also I want to address something that wasn't in your particular reply, but something people usually say about Rhaegar. The fact that he cared so much about a prophecy that basically explains how to defend his country against an apocalypse, even more than he cared about himself and his family and all the political shit, is something to respect about his character, not mock. Jon may save the world in the next books. And I'm not saying Rhaegar takes credit for that rather than Jon himself and those who raised him to be who he is, but I'm saying that if Rhaegar hadn't taken the risk and the entire Lyanna thing... yeah, Jon wouldn't exist.

[Boarsbane]

Actually, I think Rhaegar was leaving his wife and children with more protection that he and Lyanna had, much more, in fact.

Leaving them in the Red Keep should have been the safest scenario. His escape with Lyanna should have been seen as pretty assholic by her family and her fiance and his wife, it indeed should have caused some political shit, but alone, it shouldn't have resulted in a full scale rebellion, period. If it weren't for crazy Aerys killing R and B and demanding the heads of N and R, things would never have gotten near a siege and murder of the royal family.

He knew better than most how bad things had gotten with Aerys, leaving him to deal with what the kidnapping could stir up was negligent at best.

In terms of protection from the rebels, yes it should of been a safe place. In protection from Aerys? No. What if the Dornish had refused to send the troops? Does Aerys seem like the type to not follow through with killing a hostage. This man violently rapes his own wife and already seems to think Rhaegar is plotting against him, I don't think killing one of Rhaegar's children or Elia to show Dorne he means business would be a stretch.

[Pigeon Pie]

He knew better than most how bad things had gotten with Aerys, leaving him to deal with what the kidnapping could stir up was negligent at best.

In terms of protection from the rebels, yes it should of been a safe place. In protection from Aerys? No. What if the Dornish had refused to send the troops? Does Aerys seem like the type to not follow through with killing a hostage. This man violently rapes his own wife and already seems to think Rhaegar is plotting against him, I don't think killing one of Rhaegar's children or Elia to show Dorne he means business would be a stretch.

Now that is something I agree R was negligent with. He was naive if he still thought "Bro das your father he'd never hurt your family" but I doubt he at any point thought "Blah I don't care what happens to Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon I'm cool like that". Like, he might have been naive and forgotten some points concerning his father, but I doubt he purposefully didn't care about his family.

[Anath]

Now that is something I agree R was negligent with. He was naive if he still thought "Bro das your father he'd never hurt your family" but I doubt he at any point thought "Blah I don't care what happens to Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon I'm cool like that". Like, he might have been naive and forgotten some points concerning his father, but I doubt he purposefully didn't care about his family.

That's what I'm talking about. When you care about someone, you think about them. Not at one point we see Rhaegar showing any care to his children and their mother. No one says he actively hated them.

When you have a madman on your hands - one who had started getting dangerous - and you care about someone, you don't forget such important points. Naive, how cute it sounds, instead of neglectful. He forgotten the simple most important thing about the situation. The modern equivalent would be a father who forgot that he was leaving his children in a room with a carpet well coated with gasoline, with candles burning all around. Poor man was naive and forgot some points concerning gasoline.

Anyway, I was talking about symbolics. The KG is about the royal family. Rhaegar sent it to the family of his heart. I really doubt he only had two KG with him when he took Lyanna. She was most certainly not travelling without guards. I wonder what happened to them and whether they were another collateral damage. Why didn't he think his other people were enough for his precious Lyanna and couldn't spare even one KG of those who listened to him above everyone else for his children and their mother? Who was Lyanna in danger from? Her fiance? Her brother? The people who thought they were saving her? Who even knew where she was hiding?

If someone could use a skilled swordsman who was faithful to Rhaegar most of all, it wasn't his whatever who was hidden from the world in her love nest, it was his wife and children in the hands of the crowned madman with absolute power over their lives and deaths. We've seen what a difference a single KG could make in the case of Aerys, Barristan and Duskendale. Alas, Rhaegar wanted Lyanna protected, himself protected and was touchingly naive where his children were concerned, so no flight from the sack for you, kids. Daddy was naive. The excuse that he was fighting for his family as well could have flown if he had shown any care to any member of his family with Elia in at least one of the scenes we have about him. He didn't. He rode past them, refused to write a song for them, never mentioned them while they were alive - and it's logically that he's fighting for them? Please.

Once again, Rhaegar didn't even think of the most natural thing to say when he saw Jaime was upset about not leaving with him. He could have said, "I'm leaving you here to protect my family, including the future king." Of course, that would require remembering said family.

As to your second point, no. Just no. If anything, we've seen that prophecies happen in the most unexpected way. If Rhaegar hadn't listen to his combined prophetical-erotic reasoning, Elia might have died from one of her illnesses and Robert might have succumbed to a wound he received in a brawl or anything. Rhaegar just chose what was most convenient for him.