The White Walkers

[Bartimus Stone]

I have just finished a storm of swords and this seems to be the book that the white walkers make at least one of their biggest appearances against the brothers in black.

To my question, what are people's thoughts on why the White Walkers have just now appeared after thousands of years? I read that Mance had been looking for the Horn of Winter in graves of kings and heroes but all that did was release them to become White Walkers, so I thought Mance might have released a curse when searching for the horn, digging up those graves.

my thought was he wanted the wall to come down in the beginning with the horn, so opening the graves, released curse and white walkers rise. Kinda like the mummy's curse. When seeing what he done, it turned into a bargaining chip for his people to settle on south side of wall for protection from white walkers.

Could this be why they stir.

[King of Winters]

I think that they've sensed that Westeros is the weakest it's been for a while. All of Westeros is concentrating on the Wot5K and the aftermath of the battles. I think The Others know that the Realms of Men are weak and aren't as strong as they once were, so now is the time to strike and take them by suprise (well The South atleast).

[N/A]

first i'd advise you to try the still reading part (too many spoilers here)

no, you got it pretty much all wrong

the horn was never blown and the white walkers have been there since AGOT prologue (i think the horn does nothing or that it's a fake at least)

also about curses, some say that it's because there's no stark in winterfell (kinda like an ancient curse ) that maybe they had a deal with the others long ago in parley and one stipulation was that there must always be a stark in winterfell (something i like) here is a link to a very beautiful theory about it http://asoiaf.wester...78-winter-fell/

Edit : i'm not sure if you just finished the book for the first time, or did a reread, if it was the latter then please don't mind the still reading remark

[Ser Arthyr Dracenstein]

I think Mance wanted the Horn of Jaruman to bring the Wall down if necessary because of the Others.

We don't know much about the Others, so we don't know why they chose to become active now after eight thousand years of hibernation.

There is a theory that the Targaryens/Valyrians tried to invade Westeros at Hardhome causing an explosion that made the NightsWatch at the Wall think that the sun was rising in the north. That dragons awoke the Others...and why the Targaryens rarely visited the north.

[Bartimus Stone]

first i'd advise you to try the still reading part (too many spoilers here)

no, you got it pretty much all wrong

the horn was never blown and the white walkers have been there since AGOT prologue (i think the horn does nothing or that it's a fake at least)

also about curses, some say that it's because there's no stark in winterfell (kinda like an ancient curse ) that maybe they had a deal with the others long ago in parley and one stipulation was that there must always be a stark in winterfell (something i like) here is a link to a very beautiful theory about it http://asoiaf.wester...78-winter-fell/

Edit : i'm not sure if you just finished the book for the first time, or did a reread, if it was the latter then please don't mind the still reading remark

Mance has been looking for the Horn since he left the watch (my opinion), which would have been B4 the agot. I am saying he released a curse while searching for the horn, which has been going on for years and years. I think he opened up the wrong grave, maybe some important king or hero, and doing this, brought the white walkers back to life. I think the horn could be fake or real, that no matter. But just dug up the wrong grave and the mummy rises or in this case the WW's.

[Mayura]

I don't think any curse was released about specifically the White Walkers. As far as I understand, they have always been around, they had just been staying in the lands of always winter. It wasn't because they hadn't been "seen" that they weren't there anymore. The real question is: why can they all of a sudden raise armies of dead bodies while it didn't seem to be the case before.

I guess it has everything to do with magic being more and more proeminent in the ASOIAF world: dead men are walking, dragons are returning to the world, direwolves passed the Wall and so on.

I believe there was indeed a pact that was broken between the Others and another population (I guess the Starks/NW) but I also believe that the Others are currently attacking because, as others said, they know Westeros is at its weakest.

[N/A]

Mance has been looking for the Horn since he left the watch (my opinion), which would have been B4 the agot. I am saying he released a curse while searching for the horn, which has been going on for years and years. I think he opened up the wrong grave, maybe some important king or hero, and doing this, brought the white walkers back to life. I think the horn could be fake or real, that no matter. But just dug up the wrong grave and the mummy rises or in this case the WW's.

i wouldn't really like this, it kinda cheapens the others (suggesting that they're out because of some higher power means that they're subjugated and that in itself means that they're not as powerful as they're said to be "fear the master not mastered" unless like i said they're out for a personal gain not because something made them go)

[Jon Wolfwalker]

The Others have been active longer than Mance or aGoT. Craster has been sacrificing to them most likely before Mance left the Wall.

[N/A]

The Others have been active longer than Mance or aGoT. Craster has been sacrificing to them most likely before Mance left the Wall.

i know they've been there for long time , but i'm merely referencing the first time they were introduced

(that's what i meant, maybe i shouldn't have used "since")

[Bartimus Stone]

The Others have been active longer than Mance or aGoT. Craster has been sacrificing to them most likely before Mance left the Wall.

Good point.

[Northbound]

What King of the Starks and Mighty Potato have said. The Others have always been around. Mayhaps, there was an uneasy truce between them and the first men and the children of the forest, that beat them back. The Seven Kingdoms and even Essos are all in a state of disarray. More so, than in a long time. Now, the Others see there chance to strike.

Then there is the possibility, that the Others are far more; than some great threat to men and there are other motives behind there reappearance.

[Stoneborn80]

first i'd advise you to try the still reading part (too many spoilers here)

no, you got it pretty much all wrong

the horn was never blown and the white walkers have been there since AGOT prologue (i think the horn does nothing or that it's a fake at least)

also about curses, some say that it's because there's no stark in winterfell (kinda like an ancient curse ) that maybe they had a deal with the others long ago in parley and one stipulation was that there must always be a stark in winterfell (something i like) here is a link to a very beautiful theory about it http://asoiaf.wester...78-winter-fell/

Edit : i'm not sure if you just finished the book for the first time, or did a reread, if it was the latter then please don't mind the still reading remark

I don't know. I think is has already been coming for a couple of hundreds of years. Usually a forever lasting figure like a God doesn't have to think in a year more or less... :-P

The primary antagonist for ice is fire and the main source of fire-magic for a couple of thousands of years (at least 5000) has been Valyria. It got wiped of the earth in the Doom and with it also the last 'ember' of fire magic. Note: This actually means that magic used to be incredibly more powerful in the past. Eg, with the singers and the first men (CotF). There has been some theory, somewhere, that the faceless men have been the main cause of the Doom, and that they practiced at Hardhome. (and it hás been a big bang, Hardhome!)

So the 'Great Other' had some time to plan his moves, create the brotherhood of the faceless men to wipe out Valyria. Unfortunately, the Targaryans escaped and became powerful in Westeros. After that he/she could have planted the idea of 'the bad dragons' in the Citadel with the maesters, and they acted to 'their idea.' Then, just before everything was being put into motion to utterly dominate the world of men, the Great Firemaster (R'hllor) pulled a couple of final tricks from his sleeves by inspiring the last Targs and even bringing back dragons.

But after all, there's only one man who knows it all: GRRM.

Can't wait for WoW to come out.

[corbon]

Mance has been looking for the Horn since he left the watch (my opinion), which would have been B4 the agot. I am saying he released a curse while searching for the horn, which has been going on for years and years. I think he opened up the wrong grave, maybe some important king or hero, and doing this, brought the white walkers back to life. I think the horn could be fake or real, that no matter. But just dug up the wrong grave and the mummy rises or in this case the WW's.

He didn't release anything. You may need to read ahead to find the proof, I can't remember. Its not a major moment spoiler or anything really anyway, just a sort of info-dump, so having put yourself at risk just beign here, I don't think there's a great deal of harm in explaining. But I'll try the spoiler text thing anyway (which somehow never seems to work for me normally).

The WW were already active and starting to squeeze the wildlings well before mance started looking for the Horn of Joramund. Individual wildlings groups had tried to hold them off and were failing - winning "battles" but losing the war due to reanimation. Mance managed to unite the wildlings and they were still losing to the WW. So his plan was to find the Horn and use it to blackmail the NW into letting the Wildlings pass through the wall. Not to blow it, that would destroy their only defense!

As to what was released, Ygritte claimed 'shades' were released from the graves, not WW. This is clearly a superstition based on anti-grave-robbing taboos* for several reasons.

i) no precautions were taken or mentioned

ii) no actual results were reported, just a belief as insubstantial as the shades - basically anythig that was released, just faded away

iii) the WW were already active and were the very reason they were searching for the Horn

iv) this parallels the Stark traditions of their statues holding iron swords "to keep the restless spirits of the dead quiet" (thats not quite right, but its something along those lines). Note that the Starks share origins (First Men), Religion (Old Gods) and many other cultural aspects with the Wildlings.

v) shades are incorporeal and insubstantial. Both the WW and their wight minions are very much corporeal

vi) Ygritte is just a junior footslogger. She knows nothing. At least about a lot of things.

*common in many most real-life cultures that buried their people with grave-goods. Its basically a necessary invention to stop all graves being more or less instantly looted.

You are far from alone in misreading this passge and this subject though, so no shame in it.

[Bad Hound!]

I don't like this idea of the Great Other being like some sort of Sauron, building up his forces, seeing that men are weaker. I think there's something else, to explain why the Others are descending. No idea what it is though.

[IRON BANK]

I always felt Mance was looking for the horn because if his attack on the wall failed, his last resort would be to blow the horn this would bring down the wall which would be trapping him between the WW and NW. Also it seems that the WW and the army of undead or whatever are controlled by the WW IMHO it seems the WW animate the undead and lead them. So the more humans over the centuries who lived beyond the wall feed the army of the WW. If that can be agreed upon, this means that the wall was just as much put up to keep humans from one side of the wall and WW on the other.

[tormund's beard]

I don't like this idea of the Great Other being like some sort of Sauron, building up his forces, seeing that men are weaker. I think there's something else, to explain why the Others are descending. No idea what it is though.

too cold up north, the others need some beach time on dorne.

[IRON BANK]

I don't think any curse was released about specifically the White Walkers. As far as I understand, they have always been around, they had just been staying in the lands of always winter. It wasn't because they hadn't been "seen" that they weren't there anymore. The real question is: why can they all of a sudden raise armies of dead bodies while it didn't seem to be the case before.

I guess it has everything to do with magic being more and more proeminent in the ASOIAF world: dead men are walking, dragons are returning to the world, direwolves passed the Wall and so on.

I believe there was indeed a pact that was broken between the Others and another population (I guess the Starks/NW) but I also believe that the Others are currently attacking because, as others said, they know Westeros is at its weakest.

I think the Starks are the only ones who take the WW threat seriously. At first this meant that they manned the wall and since the war against the WW was fresh in everyones mind, the people and nobles in westeros respected that. However as time passed, and the war between the WW and the realms of men was forgotten about. The wall started to decline. When a Stark is not in winterfell this IMHO could mean that mans ambitions have taken over from the reality of the threat that is the WW. So if a Stark is not in winterfell the WW will return, what could be so serious to remove a stark from his true duty which might be to keep up the wall.

[corbon]

I always felt Mance was looking for the horn because if his attack on the wall failed, his last resort would be to blow the horn this would bring down the wall which would be trapping him between the WW and NW. Also it seems that the WW and the army of undead or whatever are controlled by the WW IMHO it seems the WW animate the undead and lead them. So the more humans over the centuries who lived beyond the wall feed the army of the WW. If that can be agreed upon, this means that the wall was just as much put up to keep humans from one side of the wall and WW on the other.

Please read Post #13. Mance told us why he wanted the horn, and his reason makes a lot of sense, whereas your does not. The wall defines the safe zone from the Others. The last thing he wants is to bring it down and lost his people's chance for safety.

Oh, and Ned Stark did not believe the WW existed any more, even after an eyewitness report.

[IRON BANK]

Please read Post #13. Mance told us why he wanted the horn, and his reason makes a lot of sense, whereas your does not. The wall defines the safe zone from the Others. The last thing he wants is to bring it down and lost his people's chance for safety.

Oh, and Ned Stark did not believe the WW existed any more, even after an eyewitness report.

To be honest I would need a qoute on that, never knew Mance to be one to threaten lightly. Also what Mance claims when he is on the other side of the wall and what he says while on the side with the WW, comes in diffrent scenarios of time and effect.

#2 Ned Stark didnt believe the WW existed fits perfect with the scenario I just mentioned if a Stark is busy with the ambitions of men and leaves his true post which is to maintain the wall and the peace between humans and WW the precedent of a WW take over could be imminent.

[The Last Lion]

It is kind of interesting that there don't seem to be many clues for proximate causes for the return of the Others after such a long absence. The weather has been wacky forever, the dragons died a while ago, and you get a sense the children of the forest have been stuck in their cave for a while (at least since Blood Raven dropped out of sight). The Tarygerens were deposed at roughly the same time, but why should the Others care?

One non-serious thought. Given how hideously slow the Other invasion has been in ASOIAF, maybe they have actually been "returning" since AA kicked them to the curb 10,000 years ago. They just move really really really really REALLY slowly.