The true power of the Weirnet

[mindchap]

One of the best parts about the rer

:agree: One of the very best aspects of the rereads is factoring in the birds and their subtle guidance throughout several characters' storylines.

There's even one all the way back at the beginning of the D&E tales.

[mindchap]

I thought it was fairly clear that BR (a thousand eyes and one) can skinchange pretty much any animal he chooses (Balerion the Cat) and from a great distance. Bran should be more than capable of following in his footsteps. I also think its fairly certain that BR and Bran can use any tree not just weirwoods.

I know it may sound too sci-fi-ish but I think the trees work like a conduit, so that maybe they can channel their thoughts to a particular animal somewhere, that would also make birds important because they would be in and around trees, most of the time.

[Howling Mad]

I know it may sound too sci-fi-ish but I think the trees work like a conduit, so that maybe they can channel their thoughts to a particular animal somewhere, that would also make birds important because they would be in and around trees, most of the time.

Excellent observation. Helps explain Raventree Hall.

[mindchap]

Excellent observation. Helps explain Raventree Hall.

That's another place I wish we got to see more of, all we get is Jamie's comment: "especially the heart tree, a weirwood of colossal size whose upper branches could be seen from leagues away, like bony fingers scratching at the sky." That thing full of ravens would make a hell of a sight.

[Howling Mad]

That's another place I wish we got to see more of, all we get is Jamie's comment: "especially the heart tree, a weirwood of colossal size whose upper branches could be seen from leagues away, like bony fingers scratching at the sky." That thing full of ravens would make a hell of a sight.

And a hell of a racket and beg the question "what the hell is that smell!"

[mindchap]

And a hell of a racket and beg the question "what the hell is that smell!"

Not the place for a moonlight stroll. :)

Seriously though, I wonder if those are all ravens that Bloodraven has warged at some point and that little piece that's left behind draws them to his home?

[IRON BANK]

From a adwd when the ravens at the wall actually say Jons first name I figured Bran will probably learn to talk through them.

[Howling Mad]

Not the place for a moonlight stroll. :)

Seriously though, I wonder if those are all ravens that Bloodraven has warged at some point and that little piece that's left behind draws them to his home?

That's possible however IIRC the ravens predate BR. Its possible there's something special about that tree that helped make BR a greenseer.

[Morienthar]

The Weirnet always reminded me of Cerebro.

[mindchap]

That's possible however IIRC the ravens predate BR. Its possible there's something special about that tree that helped make BR a greenseer.

You're right, they do. And the tree has been dead for thousands of years, still it would have explained a lot though.

Maybe that's where Bloodraven first found out about his abilities, thus explaining his affinity for ravens?

[pyon]

It's definitely an interesting topic. Narratively though I think it is a slippery slope - if Bran can see everything and anything - past or present, and if he can warg anyone - human or animal... It just sets up too many potential Deus ex machina situations where his intervention solves a problem or saves the day. I think realistically there have to be constraints to his omniscience and/or impact. Potentially he sees much but can only influence the actions and thoughts of a very few?

agreed

[Mehmet Eren]

I think it give unlimited power it is more related to ability to use it , As far as I understand Bran is going to be stronger than bloodraven maybe one of the most strongest greenseer. .

[Inquisitor Glokta]

It's definitely an interesting topic. Narratively though I think it is a slippery slope - if Bran can see everything and anything - past or present, and if he can warg anyone - human or animal... It just sets up too many potential Deus ex machina situations where his intervention solves a problem or saves the day. I think realistically there have to be constraints to his omniscience and/or impact. Potentially he sees much but can only influence the actions and thoughts of a very few?

I don't think it will be used as an all mighty deus ex machina, throughout the story, since Bran would care more about i.e. Jon or Arya than what's going on in the Stormlands with fAegon. But since the Stark's got so bent over in the story til now, a really powerful Stark would tip the scales again. ;)

Great name OP. I'm halfway through TBI and I'm enjoying it, though not as much as ASOIAF. I think your post is very interesting but I kind of hope that bran is only able to see through the weirwoods for the time being. Although BR does hint that he will be able to see anything and everything happening in the world in the future.

Thanks! I started reading them a week ago and am already halfway through the 2nd. At first I thought Abercrombies writing style was very odd, but eventually I got used to it and on certain characters I really appreciate it. But keep in mind, he's a first tie author, where GRRM has way more experience. ;)

From a adwd when the ravens at the wall actually say Jons first name I figured Bran will probably learn to talk through them.

Yes, but i hope that the ravens has a higher speech capability and is able to at least communicate an actual meaning.

If you go back and read Bran's dream with Bloodraven, there is a lot of evidence that Bloodraven can see beyond Weirwoods. He shows Bran things as they are happening. I don't think the CotF taught the First Men to warg ravens, I think they taught them to speak to the ravens, like Coldhands does. Bloodraven can see things that there could not possibly be a living Weirwood around, me personally I think it's birds. The CotF and any skinchanger leaves behind an imprint on the animal they share a mind with, maybe Bloodraven knows a way to connect to that.

In my 2nd quote, the last bolded passage:

...and so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never shared their skin."

This statement is clearly about the humans tying the messages to ravens who never shared their skin. The only explanation would be, that the CoTF taught the First Men how to skinchange into ravens and carry messages with them and this practice got lost over the centuries.

[mindchap]

This statement is clearly about the humans tying the messages to ravens who never shared their skin. The only explanation would be, that the CoTF taught the First Men how to skinchange into ravens and carry messages with them and this practice got lost over the centuries.

The full quote suggests otherwise:

“All,” Lord Brynden said. “It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by

raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and

so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never

shared their skin.”

[WhiteWalder]

It's not going to be powerful enough to be a deus ex machina. The children of the forest made a mistake letting an Andal use it; before long, the weirwood network is going to be loaded down with porn and adware, rendering it almost completely useless.

I disagree. I don't think BR would do that, he looks like Le Chiffre from Casino Royale. He will win massive amounts of money manipulating the stock market and winning high stakes poker tournaments. He will used the money and his henchmen to turn the weirwood network into something extremely powerful to be used against the government. He does not concern himself with the petty whims of a mortal being, like porn.

Next thing ya know Bloodraven will find mysterious searches for "Meera Reed Naked" showin up. :)

Bran, on the Other hand, will have a few years before he gets to the age where he wants to look at nudie pics. We see the way he wants to hug on Meera already. I can see him befuddling the weirwood network by streaming porn 24-7. If he wants something really kinky, look to the Twins and late Walder's youngins. heh.

On a serious note, I think Bran will use the weirwood network like a giant antennae or satellite dish to enhance his warging capabilities. Nothing or nobody in Westeros will be safe from Bran being able to warg.

Edit:spelling

[Inquisitor Glokta]

The full quote suggests otherwise:

“All,” Lord Brynden said. “It was the singers who taught the First Men to send messages by

raven … but in those days, the birds would speak the words. The trees remember, but men forget, and

so now they write the messages on parchment and tie them round the feet of birds who have never

shared their skin.”

I think the underlined part means, that the ravens used back in the day, who were able to speak the messages, had been warged into at some point. Although, the quote doesn't specify with whom the birds shared their skin. The talking-raven postal network could have been totally based on the help of CoTF or if they taught the First Men how to skinchange and thereby train the ravens.

Because men forgot how to do so over the centuries, they now write the messages down and tie them to homing ravens. A change, which could have been brought upon by the maesters, who now hold all control over the raven network in all of Westeros. It would also fit their 'Magic Out!' agenda.

[honeyed chicken]

It's definitely an interesting topic. Narratively though I think it is a slippery slope - if Bran can see everything and anything - past or present, and if he can warg anyone - human or animal... It just sets up too many potential Deus ex machina situations where his intervention solves a problem or saves the day. I think realistically there have to be constraints to his omniscience and/or impact. Potentially he sees much but can only influence the actions and thoughts of a very few?

I agree that the deus ex machina potential is problematic - especially given the tendencies of this author to a certain level of realism, but I think I see a way out.

Bran was 7 when the story started and 9 now. One would expect a long learning curve to become a truly adept greenseer. There won't be any deus from Bran in these books imo. He's too green at greenseeing.

However, GRRM has positioned Bran to give a little shove here or there as needed by the plot, but I don't believe there'll be anything major.

[mindchap]

I agree that the deus ex machina potential is problematic - especially given the tendencies of this author to a certain level of realism, but I think I see a way out.

Bran was 7 when the story started and 9 now. One would expect a long learning curve to become a truly adept greenseer. There won't be any deus from Bran in these books imo. He's too green at greenseeing.

However, GRRM has positioned Bran to give a little shove here or there as needed by the plot, but I don't believe there'll be anything major.

I think Bran's major role in this story will be to guide someone, probably Jon, to the Lands of Always Winter, and since the Weirwoods are still fairly prolific north of the Wall, him and Bloodraven should know a lot about what is happening up there. They may even know what caused the Others to stir in the first place, at least Bloodraven probably does.

*But I don't think Bran will warg any other humans besides Hodor, I hope not anyway.

[honeyed chicken]

I think Bran's major role in this story will be to guide someone, probably Jon, to the Lands of Always Winter, and since the Weirwoods are still fairly prolific north of the Wall, him and Bloodraven should know a lot about what is happening up there. They may even know what caused the Others to stir in the first place, at least Bloodraven probably does.

*But I don't think Bran will warg any other humans besides Hodor, I hope not anyway.

THAT would be cool! :thumbsup:

[mindchap]

THAT would be cool! :thumbsup:

And with all the new "faces" showing up south of the Wall maybe they help protect it if Ramsay comes marching up from the south. Makes me wonder if maybe the CotF have some friends in the Wildlings that recently moved south.