Game of Thrones Garners Emmy Nominations

[Pinkie Baelish]

Breaking Bad is good and fantastically acted, but I think it lacks the thematic depth and range Thrones has.

Heh, my views are the exact opposite. Breaking Bad's character study of Walt and Jesse is deeper and more introspective than any character on Thrones(BB has the notable advantage of only having a select few characters though), and is filled to the brim with symbolism and motifs that really add to the overall quality of the show. Not to mention that Walter White is hands down, one of the best character studies ever depicted on television.

I have never watched Breaking bad and most people are saying they are gonn win the best episode as well.

Rains of Castamere shook the world.

There is no Best Episode category. I could be wrong here, but I think each show that's nominated for a Best Series award submits their best episode for consideration.

Oh, and watch Breaking Bad ASAP. You won't regret it.

[7V3N]

I can't believe NCW isn't nominated. If anyone deserved it this season, it was him. The only others I think would be worthy of it this season would be Richard Madden, who did outstanding this season. Alfie was amazing last year and got nothing, and this year it'll be NCW. I am very upset about this because it seems like Dinklage (who I think had a poor season relative to his best work) does not deserve it, and though Emilia is good I do not think she is award-worthy. I'm just really upset about this news because it seems like the nominations are based off names and popularity, not true talent and portrayal.

ETA: Mark Addy got snubbed in season one. He was magnificent.

[Woman of War]

The nomination of Peter Dinklage is wonderful but Coster-Waldau and Dance would have been great too.

And Michelle Fairley has been outstanding!

I hope Diana Rigg wins, I love her character in the books and in the series she is even better.

[Dragonstoned]

If I was Ramin Djawadi I would be flipping furious.

edit: I've watched all 4.5 seasons of Breaking Bad and thought it was a little bit crap, but this thread is making me think I should re-watch it and see if I change my mind?

[scotcat]

I try not to look too much into these awards, their bias against sci fi/fantasy shows are well known - there are other shows and actors that really deserved to even get a nod for their hard work but never got it.

While I'm happy for Peter Dinklage & Emilia Clarke, I wouldn't have picked either one of them for an Emmy. I'm disappointed that NCW didn't get a nod - in my opinion he deserved to get it. Charles Dance is another who deserved a nod.

[boojam]

At this point, if I remember correctly, when Benioff and Weiss made their pitch to HBO , long long ago, told them ...

"This show will never get Emmy Nominations."

Amusing.

(I think they were alluding to the animosity towards fantasy and science fiction.)

[Dendrophobic Ent]

Heh, my views are the exact opposite. Breaking Bad's character study of Walt and Jesse is deeper and more introspective than any character on Thrones(BB has the notable advantage of only having a select few characters though), and is filled to the brim with symbolism and motifs that really add to the overall quality of the show. Not to mention that Walter White is hands down, one of the best character studies ever depicted on television.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to imply Breaking Bad is thematically shallow or anything like that. I just think Thrones is better at subtly weaving in its themes and that it's thematically richer, having so many parallels, references etc. Each to their own though. For all I know, I may have missed half the themes and symbolism of Breaking Bad.

I agree about Walt, but what distinguishes Got from BB in this respect (in my opinion) is how strong almost every character is. The side characters in BB are all weaker than the secondary or tertiary characters of Thrones. You could get rid of Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Stannis and Jaime and still have a strong show, while a Breaking Bad episode focusing on Saul or Marie would just be awful. Obviously that isn't really a point, because they'd never do that, but it is pretty impressive how good GoT is at sketching great characters with comparatively little screen time.

There is no Best Episode category. I could be wrong here, but I think each show that's nominated for a Best Series award submits their best episode for consideration.

There's an Outstanding Writing category, if that's what you're talking about (apologies if it isn't). Both BB and GoT are nominated this year (for Rains of Catamere and Dead Freight, respectively), although Mad Men somehow isn't.

I agree that Dance should have nominated himself, and Maisie Williams deserves every Emmy ever. I wonder why they didn't. Seems pretty bizarre. The real sin of the Emmys, however, was ignoring Parks and Rec and New Girl for Big Bang Theory.

[Newstar]

At this point, if I remember correctly, when Benioff and Weiss made their pitch to HBO , long long ago, told them ...

"This show will never get Emmy Nominations."

Amusing.

(I think they were alluding to the animosity towards fantasy and science fiction.)

Didn't D&D claim that they got Dinklage on board by promising him an Emmy if he took the part?

...I mean, they turned out to be right, but still. It seems like every interview with D&D about the show's beginnings is along the lines of "Yeah, we had no experience in television, we didn't know what we were talking about and we had no idea what we were doing." Hard to believe that these guys--with no experience in TV and very little experience with screenplays, let alone scripting multiple episodes for a series--were responsible for the creation of and writing the lion's share of the episodes*** for what seems to be HBO's flagship show, with a huge audience and 17 Emmy nominations for 2013 (including three acting noms, one episode writing nom, and a best series nom), going on three years nominated for best series. The nominations haul at the Emmys this year is even more impressive when more and more quality drama series pop up every year, making the competition even tougher. (Just five years ago, Boston Legal got an Outstanding Drama Series nod. Could you ever see a series like Boston Legal getting a drama nom in 2013?)

It's not as if they were creating the series from whole cloth, since it is an adaptation and all, but what D&D have managed to pull off, given the ratings/buzz/media/DVD sales/awards juggernaut GOT has become, is a major accomplishment. Even more when you consider the wariness of TV critics/awards organizations towards anything with the slightest whiff of sword and sorcery fantasy.

***Bryan Cogman also had a pretty skimpy TV writing resume prior to GOT. Now that Vanessa Taylor's been given the boot, the only writer on staff with any kind of substantial TV writing experience prior to GOT is...GRRM.

[King of the Road]

If I was Ramin Djawadi I would be flipping furious.

edit: I've watched all 4.5 seasons of Breaking Bad and thought it was a little bit crap, but this thread is making me think I should re-watch it and see if I change my mind?

I understand that it's a great show in terms of character development, and doubtless deserves all the accolades, but personally it just wasn't my cup of tea. You're not the only one who isn't keen on it.

I'm still gutted that Justified didn't get any nominations. That's a great show that doesn't get the attention it deserves.

[Newstar]

I'm still gutted that Justified didn't get any nominations. That's a great show that doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Yeah, although I'm not surprised that Walton Goggins was shut out of the Supporting Actor category, since that has to be one of the most competitive categories of the Emmys this year. There's a list as long as my arm of deserving supporting actors who got shut out of that category, so I'm not surprised NCW was left off the list.

We get a bit of a The Station Agent reunion in the Supporting Actor noms, since Bobby Cannavale (nominated for Boardwalk Empire) was in that film with Peter Dinklage way back when.

[boojam]

***Bryan Cogman also had a pretty skimpy TV writing resume prior to GOT. Now that Vanessa Taylor's been given the boot, the only writer on staff with any kind of substantial TV writing experience prior to GOT is...GRRM.

I will second that Cogman is a real find. I don't even know his background, as a teleplay writer he has comes on like an old veteran.

Someone noted that Benioff and Weiss have blown hot and cold on the teleplay writing. I would say the first season they were top notch all the time. Seasons 2 and 3 it seems , at least to me, the source material that they like the best really fires them up, for instance episodes 4 and 9 season 3. Tho season 3 they did not stumble like they did with Qarth, I don't even blame Vanessa Taylor who was the only one to write Dany episode's that season besides Dave and Dan. Dave and Dan have final say on the teleplays and as far as I know outline each episode, we know they do rewrites and additions, as GRRM has related.

I don't mean by this that D and D ever let things slide into mediocrity but they did have a bobble in season 2.

I still think they are overworked , now directing an episode per season, while having to supervise everything from production to casting. (I am guess they have enough experience now to delegate authority, after all they employ some very fine directors.)

We will see how it goes after season 4 , because they have a ton problems to solve with the adaptation beyond next season.

[Corvinus85]

Since we are talking about other shows, too, I'll say that Spartacus deserved to get something, at least for that awesome finale.

[boojam]

Open comment to The New York Times.

Let Dave Itzkoff write the review of , GOT, season 4 next year!

He wrote a nice column in the Arts Beat blog today about the show.

He is a good reviewer and genre friendly!

[boojam]

Bye the bye, Game of Thrones has no lead actor?

(Maybe Sean Bean counted the first season, why isn't it Peter now?)

[boojam]

Since we are talking about other shows, too, I'll say that Spartacus deserved to get something, at least for that awesome finale.

Don't worry it will get a Razzie.

What an awful last season it had!

(The first season of that show was passable, after that, except for production values (for a very stage bound show) it went down the gutter.)

[irith]

I'm still gutted that Justified didn't get any nominations. That's a great show that doesn't get the attention it deserves.

THIS. Justified had (imo) its best season yet, and is probably the most consistently satisfying show on TV week-to-week. I don't think I was disappointed with a single Justified episode this year. It deserves the nomination over Downton Abbey at least. Also, Walton Goggins not getting a Supporting Actor nod is an absolute crime. I'd give him the win over anyone on that list, honestly. Aaron Paul didn't have his best season (though he'll probably still win) and I don't even think Dinklage can compare to Goggins at his best. But the Emmys just kind of hate FX shows. He never won anything for The Shield either.

Overall though, if GoT will ever have a shot to win, this is one of 2 possible chances to do it (the other being for the final season, assuming they reach the end of the series, thus getting the award just for the accomplishment of the whole thing, ala the Best Picture win for Return of the King. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see that happen). I'd probably rank it 2nd out of the nominees this year (though I haven't seen House of Cards yet) but my tastes are not generally too in line with the Emmy voters. I still think Mad Men is better than any other show on the list, even being maybe a tad weaker than usual, but it seems like the Emmy voters have gotten tired of letting it win every time. Plus, it somehow didn't get a writing nomination. (As an aside, it's a shame Jon Hamm will probably never get his Emmy. I think he really deserves it this year, but alas, it's probably between Damian Lewis and Bryan Crantson again. And next year, with it being Breaking Bad's final season as well, Cranston is probably a shoe-in).

I'm fairly confident it will be between House of Cards and Breaking Bad this year. House of Cards got nominations in all the big categories, similar to Homeland last year, and the fact that it's from Netflix rather than actual TV gives it a little hint of exotic/new/shiny. Breaking Bad had by far its worst season in my view, but the buzz is bigger than ever and getting two writing nominations says something.

Bye the bye, Game of Thrones has no lead actor?

(Maybe Sean Bean counted the first season, why isn't it Peter now?)

I think it's mostly a strategy on their part to maximize wins. Game of Thrones' cast is so big and spread out that no one gets the focus and screentime of the lead actors on shows like Breaking Bad or Homeland. They just can't compete - it's like how Claire Danes is essentially an autowin in her category because no other top-tier shows have as meaty of a female part as she does. In terms of screentime, Dinklage is much more in line with, say, Aaron Paul (who probably still gets more) than he is with Bryan Cranston or someone like that.

[Mark Antony]

edit: I've watched all 4.5 seasons of Breaking Bad and thought it was a little bit crap, but this thread is making me think I should re-watch it and see if I change my mind?

You can't force yourself to like something, Personally I think Breaking Bad is a good show,Though I don't rate it as highly as others do I prefer Boardwalk and Game of Thrones honestly.

[7V3N]

Sorry. I wasn't trying to imply Breaking Bad is thematically shallow or anything like that. I just think Thrones is better at subtly weaving in its themes and that it's thematically richer, having so many parallels, references etc. Each to their own though. For all I know, I may have missed half the themes and symbolism of Breaking Bad.

I agree about Walt, but what distinguishes Got from BB in this respect (in my opinion) is how strong almost every character is. The side characters in BB are all weaker than the secondary or tertiary characters of Thrones. You could get rid of Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Stannis and Jaime and still have a strong show, while a Breaking Bad episode focusing on Saul or Marie would just be awful. Obviously that isn't really a point, because they'd never do that, but it is pretty impressive how good GoT is at sketching great characters with comparatively little screen time.

There's an Outstanding Writing category, if that's what you're talking about (apologies if it isn't). Both BB and GoT are nominated this year (for Rains of Catamere and Dead Freight, respectively), although Mad Men somehow isn't.

I agree that Dance should have nominated himself, and Maisie Williams deserves every Emmy ever. I wonder why they didn't. Seems pretty bizarre. The real sin of the Emmys, however, was ignoring Parks and Rec and New Girl for Big Bang Theory.

I would argue the opposite regarding Breaking Bad. I think it is much more subtle. With the Game of Thrones show, most people are left with the same opinions of characters (though have different favorites), but with Breaking Bad people can endlessly discuss the depth to the characters. Breaking Bad is much more subtle where I think GoT is rather heavy-handed. There isn't much discussion in GoT on who is the good guy, people all agree Tyrion, Dany, Jon, etc. But in Breaking Bad everyone can defend a character with good evidence, but also cannot be right or wrong--much more like the ASOIAF books. Breaking Bad also has much more subtle yet strong symbolism and metaphors (the fly, the bear-eye, baldness, etc.) where as the depth of GoT symbolism is limited to 'angels on the shoulder'.

I love both shows, but if I didn't know the depth to characters in GoT from the books, I would not appreciate it to the level of Breaking Bad. So simply comparing show-to-show, I think Breaking Bad is much better. The writing is infinitely better, but GoT benefits from having GRRM's great world and characters, as well as some fantastic CGI moments (I'm looking at you Astapor!).

ETA: I should add that I have loved Cogman's episodes, and didn't look into him until I watched his commentary on his episode. I found that all the episodes he wrote were some of my favorites. He has great tie-ins and sticks pretty true to the source material. Cripples, Bastard, and Broken Things is still one of my all-time favorites.

Cogman and Sahkarov are some great finds. The two should handle every episode IMO, with the exception to GRRM's episodes. I have found that almost every scene where I am left thinking "Well, that seemed forced," were actually forced in by Dave and Dan (though it seems to be mainly Dave) after the scripts were submitted.

[pleonasm]

I will second that Cogman is a real find. I don't even know his background, as a teleplay writer he has comes on like an old veteran.

Someone noted that Benioff and Weiss have blown hot and cold on the teleplay writing. I would say the first season they were top notch all the time. Seasons 2 and 3 it seems , at least to me, the source material that they like the best really fires them up, for instance episodes 4 and 9 season 3. Tho season 3 they did not stumble like they did with Qarth, I don't even blame Vanessa Taylor who was the only one to write Dany episode's that season besides Dave and Dan. Dave and Dan have final say on the teleplays and as far as I know outline each episode, we know they do rewrites and additions, as GRRM has related.

I don't mean by this that D and D ever let things slide into mediocrity but they did have a bobble in season 2.

I still think they are overworked , now directing an episode per season, while having to supervise everything from production to casting. (I am guess they have enough experience now to delegate authority, after all they employ some very fine directors.)

We will see how it goes after season 4 , because they have a ton problems to solve with the adaptation beyond next season.

Bryan Cogman was essentially a working actor who couldn't find much work and drifted into writing assistants gigs to pay the bills. Who knew he would have developed into the strongest writer on staff? He did attend Julliard so perhaps that formal drama training really helped. I think it also helps that he gets to focus on one (and now just 2 episodes) a season.

This is my big beef with the haphazard quality of Benioff and Weiss writing. They are writing far too much and given they also need to be acting as editors for the other writers (plus all the other showrunner duties), they aren't spending enough time breaking stories correctly and re(writing) their own work. I wasn't a huge fan of Vanessa Taylor, but she definitely understood how to craft a tv screenplay and rarely had the sluggish pacing issues that often occur with Benioff and Weiss. I think it would make far more sense for Benioff and Weiss to limit themselves to 2 episodes per season as the primary writers and then have enough writers on staff (presumably another 4 or 5 if you count George) to pick up another 2 episodes each.

[irith]

This is my big beef with the haphazard quality of Benioff and Weiss writing. They are writing far too much and given they also need to be acting as editors for the other writers (plus all the other showrunner duties), they aren't spending enough time breaking stories correctly and re(writing) their own work. I wasn't a huge fan of Vanessa Taylor, but she definitely understood how to craft a tv screenplay and rarely had the sluggish pacing issues that often occur with Benioff and Weiss. I think it would make far more sense for Benioff and Weiss to limit themselves to 2 episodes per season as the primary writers and then have enough writers on staff (presumably another 4 or 5 if you count George) to pick up another 2 episodes each.

This is very true. When you look at the really great shows of today, like Mad Men or Breaking Bad, you see that their showrunners usually only write one or two episodes a season on their own. Their job is more about editing and supervising the writing, making sure that there is a coherent vision and tone for the show. That's largely the reason for those shows being more consistent than Game of Thrones tends to be.