No News from SDCC

[Hangover of the Morning]

Have you seen the Tywin/Pycelle scene? Where can I find it?

[KingInTheCave]

That is a good scene, but when did Pycelle get the courage to confront Tywin in that way?

Edit: On second thought, I don't think I like it very much. What's the point of making Pycelle seem like he's been acting like an idiot this whole time?

[Blutrabe]

It's not a bad scene, but I can see why it was cut. It's not really relevant to anything; it makes it look like Pycelle would have a bigger role in S3, but he hadn't.

[protar]

Even tho I know what you mean , taking Meereen need not be repetitive. Tho they sort of semi-used the Meereen ploy with Yunkai , with imagination the conquest would be interesting.

I never noticed in the book that it seemed repetitive, seemed a logical development.

Problem is the battle for the Wall is going to be the feature, resources for doing a VFX job on Meereen are up to HBO....

I would hate to see them leave out Meereen, but how the heck they develop Dany's story there, whew! , I can't guess.

In the books it was only one chapter though. I don't think there's anything D+D can do to make the taking of Meereen not seem too repetitive as it's basically repeating the second half of Dany's S3 arc over twice as long. At the very least she should take the city half way into the season.

[protar]

That is a good scene, but when did Pycelle get the courage to confront Tywin in that way?

Edit: On second thought, I don't think I like it very much. What's the point of making Pycelle seem like he's been acting like an idiot this whole time?

Julian Glover requested that little plot point be inserted into S1 so his character would have more to do. Even though in actuality it didn't result in his character doing anything else he wasn't already doing.

I can see why the scene was cut, it was pretty superfluous. But it also would have been good to see just a little bit more of Pycelle this season.

[PatrickStormborn]

In the books it was only one chapter though. I don't think there's anything D+D can do to make the taking of Meereen not seem too repetitive as it's basically repeating the second half of Dany's S3 arc over twice as long. At the very least she should take the city half way into the season.

Dany's two chapters in Meereen could have been three or four chapters easily, but GRRM told them in a way that only required two. Here's everything significant that happens:

• Dany decides to continue marching towards Westeros through Slaver's Bay.
  
• Jorah warns Dany that they cannot continue to support all the slaves she has freed.
  
• Dany sees that the Meereenese have burned the crops and crucified children pointing towards Meereen.
  
• The relationship between Daario and Dany continues to build (he brings her flowers every day, and tries to hide the crucified children from her).
  
• They arrive at Meereen and face the Meereenese Champion, who is defeated by Belwas.
  
• Dany calls a war council.
  
• She then rides amidst her freed slaves and is almost assassinated.
  
• Barristan saves her; she tells Jorah to knight him, which leads to his identity and Jorah's betrayal being revealed.
  
• Barristan and Jorah travel through the sewers (a scene that would be perfect for the show IMO) and begin to free the slaves.
  
• Meereen is sacked.
  
• Dany enters Meereen, ordering that any crimes committed after the sack will lead to punishment.
  
• She gathers the Great Masters and crucifies 163 as vengeance for the 163 children.
  
• She meets two envoys.
  
• Jorah and Barristan are brought before her; Barristan is pardoned whilst Jorah is banished.
  
• She decides to remain in Meereen.
  

As you can see, there is a lot of material left to tell, a lot of which is about the personal side of Dany's story: her relationship with her advisers, the development of her military strategy, etc. The plot itself of Dany taking Meereen is quite weak, but it's still stronger than her Qarth material.

[rystine]

Thanks for the link.

That is a great scene for several reasons. I'm disappointed that they had to cut it, but I'm glad they are making it available to the public.

First off, I think there is a tremendous amount of symbolism in the fact that Tywin not just catching but killing fish.

I think it's significant that Tywin is not entirely willing to go against Tyrion's actions that he made as acting hand. It shows that Tywin is at least somewhat aware of Tyrion's abilities as a political force.

I also think that scene shows Pycelle's ambitions in a way. He is obviously a Lannister loyalist. But he also aspires to be buried in the Sept of Baelor. While it certainly doesn't seem crazy to think that a Grand Maester would be interned there, it's probably no guarantee.

And so Pycelle saying that he wishes to be buried there shows that he hopes to be remembered as one of the great Grand Maesters in history.

[Mayura]

Thank you very much for the info :-) ! No season 4 news indeed but it is still nice to see the discussions of the cast and of M. Martin!

[KingInTheCave]

First off, I think there is a tremendous amount of symbolism in the fact that Tywin not just catching but killing fish.

Really? Tremendous symbolism?

[Pinkie Baelish]

Really? Tremendous symbolism?

Well, I like how someone in the comments section pointed out that Tywin was skinning a stag in season 1, and here he's catching trout. It's not tremendous, but it's a nice bit of symbolism.

[protar]

Dany's two chapters in Meereen could have been three or four chapters easily, but GRRM told them in a way that only required two. Here's everything significant that happens:

• Dany decides to continue marching towards Westeros through Slaver's Bay.
  
• Jorah warns Dany that they cannot continue to support all the slaves she has freed.
  
• Dany sees that the Meereenese have burned the crops and crucified children pointing towards Meereen.
  
• The relationship between Daario and Dany continues to build (he brings her flowers every day, and tries to hide the crucified children from her).
  
• They arrive at Meereen and face the Meereenese Champion, who is defeated by Belwas.
  
• Dany calls a war council.
  
• She then rides amidst her freed slaves and is almost assassinated.
  
• Barristan saves her; she tells Jorah to knight him, which leads to his identity and Jorah's betrayal being revealed.
  
• Barristan and Jorah travel through the sewers (a scene that would be perfect for the show IMO) and begin to free the slaves.
  
• Meereen is sacked.
  
• Dany enters Meereen, ordering that any crimes committed after the sack will lead to punishment.
  
• She gathers the Great Masters and crucifies 163 as vengeance for the 163 children.
  
• She meets two envoys.
  
• Jorah and Barristan are brought before her; Barristan is pardoned whilst Jorah is banished.
  
• She decides to remain in Meereen.
  

As you can see, there is a lot of material left to tell, a lot of which is about the personal side of Dany's story: her relationship with her advisers, the development of her military strategy, etc. The plot itself of Dany taking Meereen is quite weak, but it's still stronger than her Qarth material.

I think you missed my point. Yes, an awful lot happens in that one chapter (and not so much in the second). However if we'd have gotten 3 or 4 chapters covering Dany's entire conquest of Meereen it would have felt repetitive. Just as it will if they spend an entire season of Dany taking Meereen. There's certainly enough material to spread over an entire season but after S3 I don't think it would be very engaging.

It would be better to have a change of setting, with Dany ruling instead of conquering whilst hopefully transplanting the interpersonal stuff there as well. Then in S5 things could be arranged so she leaves on Drogon in episodes 5-7 so we have another change of circumstances.

[PatrickStormborn]

Skinning the stag is far less heavy-handed than killing fish and is actually far more relevant to Tywin's actions. He doesn't kill Robert or any Baratheons; his work takes place after their deaths. The "skinning" could also fit the way he is replacing the Baratheon dynasty with a Lannister dynasty.

Killing fish, on the other hand, is less relevant. Does Tywin kill any Tullys this season? He has Cat killed (if they changed the detail from the book), but otherwise he was killing Starks. And he didn't kill the fish himself.

I think you missed my point. Yes, an awful lot happens in that one chapter (and not so much in the second). However if we'd have gotten 3 or 4 chapters covering Dany's entire conquest of Meereen it would have felt repetitive. Just as it will if they spend an entire season of Dany taking Meereen. There's certainly enough material to spread over an entire season but after S3 I don't think it would be very engaging.

It would be better to have a change of setting, with Dany ruling instead of conquering whilst hopefully transplanting the interpersonal stuff there as well. Then in S5 things could be arranged so she leaves on Drogon in episodes 5-7 so we have another change of circumstances.

Nope, your point was very well understood, hence the last part of my post:

The plot itself of Dany taking Meereen is quite weak, but it's still stronger than her Qarth material.

Dany taking another city is not an exciting plot, but it has a lot of interesting personal moments that make it compelling. And regardless, it's still far stronger than her season 2 material.

Oh, and hasn't it been confirmed that they're not returning to Morocco? I remember reading that on WIC. If so, it's unlikely that Dany will rule Yunkai. In addition, Emilia Clarke said that she begins filming in September, when filming is taking place in Croatia.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Well, you could argue that Tywin was rather baiting and trapping the fish, and leaving the actual butchering to someone else, which is pretty much what happens with the Red Wedding. That being said, the scene was alright, I guess. It just seemed like a way for them to give Glover and Dance more screentime(after all, Glover has been fairly non-existent in season 3). It's not one that I think HAD to be included by any stretch.

[boojam]

Have you seen the Tywin/Pycelle scene? Where can I find it?

It here:

[boojam]

[*]Dany sees that the Meereenese have burned the crops and crucified children pointing towards Meereen.

[*]The relationship between Daario and Dany continues to build (he brings her flowers every day, and tries to hide the crucified children from her).

Yeah, shades of Spartacus, how can Dave and Dan resist those scenes?

[protar]

Skinning the stag is far less heavy-handed than killing fish and is actually far more relevant to Tywin's actions. He doesn't kill Robert or any Baratheons; his work takes place after their deaths. The "skinning" could also fit the way he is replacing the Baratheon dynasty with a Lannister dynasty.

Killing fish, on the other hand, is less relevant. Does Tywin kill any Tullys this season? He has Cat killed (if they changed the detail from the book), but otherwise he was killing Starks. And he didn't kill the fish himself.

Nope, your point was very well understood, hence the last part of my post:

Dany taking another city is not an exciting plot, but it has a lot of interesting personal moments that make it compelling. And regardless, it's still far stronger than her season 2 material.

Oh, and hasn't it been confirmed that they're not returning to Morocco? I remember reading that on WIC. If so, it's unlikely that Dany will rule Yunkai. In addition, Emilia Clarke said that she begins filming in September, when filming is taking place in Croatia.

So if you agree it wouldn't be a very exciting plot, surely it would be better to take those interpersonal moments and work them into a fresher plotline, aka ruling a city instead of taking another one?

[PatrickStormborn]

So if you agree it wouldn't be a very exciting plot, surely it would be better to take those interpersonal moments and work them into a fresher plotline, aka ruling a city instead of taking another one?

No, I don't, because then what will happen in season 5? Dany can't ride away on Drogon in episode 5 because then she'll have nothing to do for the rest of the season unless they move forward a lot of TWoW material. And I certainly don't trust D&D to invent new material for her...

But most importantly, I don't see how it's possible to have Dany ruling Yunkai if Morroco is no longer being used. If she was ruling Yunkai this season, it probably would have been established in the finale.

And I never said it wouldn't be "very exciting". Personally I would love to see the taking of Meereen and the horrors that entails. But I do agree that it won't be as exciting as her season 3 material (although the TWOP Unsullied will probably prefer it, as Dany's antagonists have had time to prepare for her advance and are therefore far more challenging than Yunkai was).

[protar]

No, I don't, because then what will happen in season 5? Dany can't ride away on Drogon in episode 5 because then she'll have nothing to do for the rest of the season unless they move forward a lot of TWoW material. And I certainly don't trust D&D to invent new material for her...

Well yes, I'm suggesting that they bring forwards some TWOW material into S5. It seems to me that the Battle of Fire is the logical finale for S5. So a rough outline for S5:

• E1-5: Ruling Meereen/Yunkai
  
• E6: Flies off on Drogon
  
• E7: Dany X, Discarded Knight, Spurned Suitor
  
• E8: Kingbreaker, Dragontamer, Dany TWOW
  
• E9: TWOW samples in Meereen + Dany
  
• E10: Battle of Fire.
  

Just 3 episodes of partial TWOW material. Not that much.

But most importantly, I don't see how it's possible to have Dany ruling Yunkai if Morroco is no longer being used. If she was ruling Yunkai this season, it probably would have been established in the finale.

In regards to the shooting locale there are 4 possibilities:

1. You're mistaken, as you've just vaguely recollected this from WiC, although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
   
   
2. They've simply used a new shooting location for Yunkai, as they did with KL.
   
   
3. Meereen is in, but will be taken early into S4.
   
   
4. I'm wrong and Dany will spend 10 episodes taking Meereen.
   

You are right that Dany ruling Yunkai wasn't explicitly set up at the end of S3 however this could be because they simply thought that made the best ending scene, or because they wanted to keep their options open for S4.

And I never said it wouldn't be "very exciting". Personally I would love to see the taking of Meereen and the horrors that entails. But I do agree that it won't be as exciting as her season 3 material (although the TWOP Unsullied will probably prefer it, as Dany's antagonists have had time to prepare for her advance and are therefore far more challenging than Yunkai was).

D+D don't tend to do strategy in the show though, so things like Meereen being better prepared ultimately won't make much of a difference imo in how this plot plays out. And of course you personally would like to see the taking of Meereen across an entire season, but for the wider TV audience I just don't see it as being interesting enough.

[Raja]

A bit peeved about Robb Stark being labeled in the video as "King of the North."

Doesn't King of the North make more sense though? King in the North wouldn't single him out, for example, say Joff is in the North, technically he is also King in the North.

[protar]

Doesn't King of the North make more sense though? King in the North wouldn't single him out, for example, say Joff is in the North, technically he is also King in the North.

True but the official title is King in the North. Also I think it's supposed to be a term of respect to the North itself. The KitN might rule over the people of the North but they don't rule the Land or the Winter. Thousands of years ago they used to call themselves the Kings of Winter, but at some point (after the Long Night I guess) they were knocked down a peg or two and realised they were being a bit cocky.