Theory: Darkstar's father (TWoW Spoilers)

[Russo]

Except he is a Dayne of High Hermitage not Starfall.

At the time Doran describes him as the most dangerous man in Dorne they aren't aware of Quentyn grisly end.

So as far as Doran is concerned Quentyn is still the next man in line. Not that it matters anyway under Dornish law.

True, probably not what Doran was talking about then.

In regards to High Hermitage, we don't know how long this cadet branch of house Dayne has existed. Perhaps Darkstar is simply the first, like the Tyrells of Brightwater Keep? It may have been created for him.

[Russo]

Interesting theory. But I question whether Oberyn knew about it or not. If he did, and from what we've seen of him, wouldn't he want to claim the child? He obviously didn't, or we would have heard about it in any of the few times Darkstar was mentioned. And Tyrion also mentions that, as far as he knows, Oberyn has never fathered a son.

I think of it as Oberyn suspects he is his, but not openly. It's a secret.

The fact that Oberyn hated him but didn't kill him is interesting in itself. Why not? Doesn't seem like something he would have a problem taking care of/getting away with.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

I believe that Darkstar Darkstar is a legitimised bastard of an as-of-yet unamed Dayne Lady and Oberyn Martell.

I have mentioned this theory a couple of times before on this forum, but I thought I would post a more detailed explanation of my reasoning for it.

Darkstar's Darkstar's age:

In the Tyrion ASOS chapter before the trial by combat, Oberyn tells Tyrion the story of how he travelled with Elia to Casterly Rock, and where they stopped on the way.

"Do you recall the tale I told you of our first meeting, Imp?" Prince Oberyn asked, as the Bastard of Godsgrace knelt before him to fasten his greaves. "It was not for your tail alone that my sister and I came to Casterly Rock. We were on a quest of sorts. A quest that took us to Starfall, the Arbor, Oldtown, the Shield Islands, Crakehall, and finally Casterly Rock . . . but our true destination was marriage. Doran was betrothed to Lady Mellario of Norvos, so he had been left behind as castellan of Sunspear. My sister and I were yet unpromised.

Notice the only Dornish castle mentioned is Starfall, the seat of House Dayne. They obviously would have required to stop at other Dornish castles in between, due to the long distance between Starfall and Sunspear. So why is Starfall the only one mentioned?

Assuming Oberyn conceived a child on this visit, the child would be aged at either 26 or 27 at the end of ADWD, due to being of an age with Tyrion, who was born in 274AL, depending on the time it took to reach Casterly Rock. I dont think it's a stretch to put this time to be a minimum of 2 months and maximum of one year. Darkstar Darkstar is said to be mid-late 20s by GRRM. So regardless, he was born around the time that these events are taking place.

Darkstar's Darkstar's appearence:

Darkstar Darkstar

He has thick silver hair that falls to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of midnight black. His eyes appear black but at closer vantage they are a dark purple - dark and angry

Oberyn

Oberyn has a lined face with thin eyebrows, black "viper" eyes and a sharp nose.^[2] His hair is lustrous and black with only a few silver streaks and recedes from his brow into a widow's peak.

Darkstar Darkstar shares the common features of House Dayne with Oberyn. His eyes are a mix of the Dayne purple and Oberyn's black, his hair a mix of the Dayne silver and Oberyn's black.

Darkstars Darkstar's mannerisms:

He has a cruel mouth and a crueler tongue

Oberyn talks about himself

"I promptly named him Baelor Breakwind, and after that Elia couldn't look at him without laughing. I was a monstrous young fellow, someone should have sliced out my vile tongue."

Darkstar Darkstar describer by Daemon Sand to Arianne Martell

"Is that what Darkstar Darkstar is? A man?" Ser Daemon grimaced. "A man would not have done what he did to Princess Myrcella. Ser Gerold is more a viper than your uncle ever was. Prince Oberyn could see that he was poison, he said so more than once. It’s just a pity that he never got around to killing him."

He is compared with Oberyn and described as similar by Daemon, and he clearly shares Oberyn's cruel wit.

He is also described as poison by Oberyn more than once, what better way to describe the son of a viper?

Also, if Oberyn wanted to kill him, why didn't he? Fear of being a kinslayer?

The attack on Myrcella:

A revenge attack for the death of his father?

Purpose in the plot:

So what would it serve should my theory be true in regards to the story?

If Darkstar Darkstar is the legitimised bastard of Oberyn Martell, the order of succession for the prince of Dorne would be (stand to be corrected):

Doran (old)

Arianne (A woman)

Trystane (A boy, betrothed to a Lannister)

Darkstar Darkstar

Is this why Doran describes him as the most dangerous man in Dorne? Because he is the next man in line for the seat of Sunspear?

So let me have it. What are the holes in the theory?

fixed and is now readable!

[Russo]

Another quote regarding Darkstar, Vipers and poison etc.

"Watch where you set your feet," Drey cautioned. "It has been a while since Prince Oberyn milked the local vipers."

"I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it." Ser Gerold vanished through a broken arch.

Although not all snakes are immune to their own venom, I believe Vipers are.

[Steinnis]

Pretty interesting theory OP. There are some similarities, but not much to go on. We'll have to wait and see if there's any more info about Darkstar in TWOW.

[Russo]

The weaned on venom is an interesting comment:

"I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it." Ser Gerold vanished through a broken arch.

Perhaps Oberyn heard of the child and attempted to kill it with poison when he was young.

Getting a bit crackpot here, but maybe the child originally had all black hair like Oberyn. But the attempt at poisoning turned most of his hair silver, except for the streak of black.

He is described a pure poison a couple of times, perhaps thats from the idea that his blood was tainted by the initial poisoning attempt, and thats why a viper would rue biting him.

[J. Stargaryen]

Another quote regarding Darkstar, Vipers and poison etc.

"Watch where you set your feet," Drey cautioned. "It has been a while since Prince Oberyn milked the local vipers."

"I was weaned on venom, Dalt. Any viper takes a bite of me will rue it." Ser Gerold vanished through a broken arch.

Although not all snakes are immune to their own venom, I believe Vipers are.

This is looking like one of the best original theories on the forums in a while, so far. Nice work, OP.

[Heir to His House]

One fly in the ointment:

Oberyn was NOTORIOUS for recognizing and parenting his bastard daughters. If he remotely thought Darkstar was his at a young age, he would have gone and claimed him.

I think this is part of the Darkstar becoming more and more overblown by the day. He's a Dayne from a cadet branch, not Starfall. And it would have been mentioned had he been bastard-born, don't you think?

[kiasyd]

I'm sold on this theory!

Darkstar does have an aquiline nose, and share the taste for Lannister blood like the sand snakes - killing Myrcella would fit well as retribution for Ellia and the children.

[J. Stargaryen]

One fly in the ointment:

Oberyn was NOTORIOUS for recognizing and parenting his bastard daughters. If he remotely thought Darkstar was his at a young age, he would have gone and claimed him.

I think this is part of the Darkstar becoming more and more overblown by the day. He's a Dayne from a cadet branch, not Starfall. And it would have been mentioned had he been bastard-born, don't you think?

Or perhaps he didn't because

Prince Oberyn could see that he was poison, he said so more than once.

Or, as has been mentioned, Oberyn could not claim him because Darkstar's mother was married to someone else. In any case, I find it telling that GRRM has Oberyn repeatedly calling Darkstar "poison."

[Russo]

One fly in the ointment:

Oberyn was NOTORIOUS for recognizing and parenting his bastard daughters. If he remotely thought Darkstar was his at a young age, he would have gone and claimed him.

I think this is part of the Darkstar becoming more and more overblown by the day. He's a Dayne from a cadet branch, not Starfall. And it would have been mentioned had he been bastard-born, don't you think?

His daughters yes, but 8 children and no sons? It's more likely he has more than 8 bastards and only claims the daughters than him having only 8 children and them all being girls. Of course it's certainly not impossible. Why he would do this however, I do not know.

Yes it's a cadet branch, but we don't know how old it is. Darkstar could be the first Dayne of High Hermitage for all we know.

Perhaps, but mentioned by who? Darkstar is only mentioned on page by Doran, Arianne and Daemon Sand that I can think of. Arianne and Daemon may not know. Doran has had no reason to mention it.

Ned wasn't born of a virgin, and has what, 15 POV chapters? Yet he never thinks of his mother. It may just not be mentioned because GRRM doesn't want it revealed yet.

Or of course, the theory is just wrong.

[King of Winters]

Yes it's a cadet branch, but we don't know how old it is. Darkstar could be the first Dayne of High Hermitage for all we know.

Perhaps, but mentioned by who? Darkstar is only mentioned on page by Doran, Arianne and Daemon Sand that I can think of. Arianne and Daemon may not know. Doran has had no reason to mention it.

Ned wasn't born of a virgin, and has what, 15 POV chapters? Yet he never thinks of his mother. It may just not be mentioned because GRRM doesn't want it revealed yet.

Or of course, the theory is just wrong.

Maybe Darkstar's mother, from High Hermitage, was at Starfall when Oberyn visited there for some reason and he got her pregnant there.

[Russo]

I'm sold on this theory!

Darkstar does have an aquiline nose, and share the taste for Lannister blood like the sand snakes - killing Myrcella would fit well as retribution for Ellia and the children.

Yeah I thought they had the same nose too but couldn't find the quotes.

The picture of Darkstar on the wiki shows a man with darker skin than the other Daynes are described, but I couldn't find anywhere where his skin colour is mentioned. The artist probably just took license.

[Russo]

Maybe Darkstar's mother, from Hight Hermitage, was at Starfall when Oberyn visited there for some reason and he got her pregnant there.

Well if members of the paramount house of the land are visiting your castle, Im sure you would have all the members of your house there to welcome them, especially if they are unmarried, as was the case with Elia and Oberyn. Even cadet branches.

[Heir to His House]

His daughters yes, but 8 children and no sons? It's more likely he has more than 8 bastards and only claims the daughters than him having only 8 children and them all being girls. Of course it's certainly not impossible. Why he would do this however, I do not know.

Yes it's a cadet branch, but we don't know how old it is. Darkstar could be the first Dayne of High Hermitage for all we know.

Perhaps, but mentioned by who? Darkstar is only mentioned on page by Doran, Arianne and Daemon Sand that I can think of. Arianne and Daemon may not know. Doran has had no reason to mention it.

Ned wasn't born of a virgin, and has what, 15 POV chapters? Yet he never thinks of his mother. It may just not be mentioned because GRRM doesn't want it revealed yet.

Or of course, the theory is just wrong.

You see plenty of examples like that. Jonos Bracken was famous for only having daughters, despite constant attempts. Damn Bene Gesserit lol!

I also find it difficult that Arianne wouldn't have thought of it, especially in the spoiler chapter talking with Daemon Sand, who is obviously bastard born.

It could be possible, but there really isn't any textual evidence for it. Plus GRRM did a great job of sowing Red Viper hints all over the place. See: Tywin's poisoning.....

[J. Stargaryen]

Well if members of the paramount house of the land are visiting your castle, Im sure you would have all the members of your house there to welcome them, especially if they are unmarried, as was the case with Elia and Oberyn. Even cadet branches.

:agree: I was typing up a similar response when I saw your post appear.

Being visited by the Martell's would have been a big deal for the Dayne's of Starfall. Big enough that they might have invited others to join them. If there were other guests, you can realistically be assured the Dayne's of High Hermitage were among them.

[kiasyd]

Yeah I thought they had the same nose too but couldn't find the quotes.

Here you go, from aFfC:

Ser Gerold Dayne had an aquiline nose, high cheekbones, a strong jaw. He kept his face clean-shaven, but his thick hair fell to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of midnight black.

[Fat Mac]

Well geographically, High Hermitage is just up the river from Starfall. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine them coming down if the Prince and Princess of Dorne were visiting.

Overall, I actually like this theory. It's one of the only Darkstar theories that seem plausible.

I think the most likely scenario is that whoever Darkstar's mother was passed him off as the child of her husband. This would technically make Darkstar a bastard, in the sense that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella are, though its possible only she would know it. Oberyn might not know of the parentage, and I doubt her husband would either.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Overall, I actually like this theory. It's one of the only Darkstar theories that seem plausible.

Yeah, I have to admit that when I opened this thread, I expected just another "Darkstar is the PtwP and his father was a god and his mother a unicorn", but this actually has a lot going for it. Kudos, Russo!

[King of Winters]

Yeah, I have to admit that when I opened this thread, I expected just another "Darkstar is the PtwP and his father was a god and his mother a unicorn", but this actually has a lot going for it.

For me, it's like the Howland+Ashara theory a bit, there's not a lot of evidence but I like anyway.

(5000th post!)