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from GRRM's blog: Jeyne Westerling and other characters in TWoW


AccusedSinner

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RE: Pyat Pree, this is where the show issue comes in. He was offed by Dracarys on the show, so it seems unless there will be a significant dichotomy between show and books, he is dead in the books.

The whole point of this blog comment is that Martin has the right to do as he likes with his characters even if the show has unequivocally slaughtered their TV equivalent.

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Obviously Jeyne is a big focus here, but I actually like that there are some more recurring characters, especially Pyat, Hot Pie, and Bronn. Also, while I would want Robb to have a child with Jeyne because he deserved it, it's very conflicting with claims and it could potentially ruin the north if they try to press a claim. So, especially with what happened in the TV series, I don't think Jeyne is pregnant. What I do hope she does is join the Blackfish (I do think she escaped with him) and when the Blackfish attacks the Twins, Jeyne will hopefully do the execution of Walder Frey herself. I think she learned a lot from Robb's choice with Karstark and what Cat said.

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The whole point of this blog comment is that Martin has the right to do as he likes with his characters even if the show has unequivocally slaughtered their TV equivalent.

Yes, of course I understand that. But on the other hand, he can't make a show vs. book character's outcome so divergent as to be ridiculously unbelievable. Take an extreme example - what if he decides to kill off Jon in S4, but he ends up the key to defeating the Others by ADOS. Of course that's a cockamanie supposition, but there's a point at which it just can't be done without losing credibility among fans, even if it is GRRM behind it.

So, for Pyat Pree, he can't have him for instance somehow turn out to be AAR in the books. Just sayin'.

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I clearly don't love Jeyne as much as you. I've always (rightly or wrongly) partly blamed her for the loss of the North (with Robb bearing most of the blame, as much as I liked him). We really don't see enough of her to know her enough to like her -- at least, for me -- so the idea of her being with Jon, and potentially ruining one of the North's hopes again, really makes me feel :ack: lol

Totally agreed, in fact is as sickening as Sansa/Jon or Arya/Jon.

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What about Gendry Mister Martin, will he come back too? He is the only minor character that I really care about, also one of the few men in the book that can be called a "good guy", almost everyone else seems to be plotting something.

About Jeyne, I think she really is pregnant. Why else would GRRM emphasise her so?

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Seems to me that we may end up with some Cersei and Jeyne drama at Casterly Rock.

What has not been mentioned regarding Jeyne is that she is in the same company as Edmure and his wife and heir.

Jaime put a strong guard around them of 800 men, led by Ser Forley Prester. Ser Forley is held in high esteem by Jaime, as he considers him a good candidate for Hand of the King in place of Cersei.

Prester has orders to kill both Edmure and Jaime should the Blackfish attack. This may be Jeyne's fate. To die in an attack led by the Blackfish.

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She'll talk to Sansa or Tyrion when one of them makes it to the rock. If it's Tyrion she'll reignite the longing for the love of another and remind him of Tysha when he sees how distraught she is over Rob, if it's Sansa she'll feed her need for revenge and bring her to the realisation that she is the Queen in the North.

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She'll talk to Sansa or Tyrion when one of them makes it to the rock. If it's Tyrion she'll reignite the longing for the love of another and remind him of Tysha when he sees how distraught she is over Rob, if it's Sansa she'll feed her need for revenge and bring her to the realisation that she is the Queen in the North.

She is not going to the Rock. She is on her way back to the Crag with her father. She is to wait there for two years before she can marry again.

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I have a funny feeling that the BwB might rescue her from the Lannister troops and UnCat will think she was in league with the Lannisters and kill her which would be pretty tragic, but would show how different Cat is now.

That's basically where my mind went too, concerning Jeyne at least... The only POVs Jeyne's arc has been told through so far are Cat and Jaime, and it would be a nice thickening of the stew for them to all be in the same location for part of a chapter.

If this comes to pass, and if Jeyne dies at the BwB camp, this would provide a much cleaner resolution to her part in the story than to simply be written out of necessity offstage... Which is where I thought things were heading until GRRM's post.

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What has not been mentioned regarding Jeyne is that she is in the same company as Edmure and his wife and heir.

Jaime put a strong guard around them of 800 men, led by Ser Forley Prester. Ser Forley is held in high esteem by Jaime, as he considers him a good candidate for Hand of the King in place of Cersei.

Prester has orders to kill both Edmure and Jaime should the Blackfish attack. This may be Jeyne's fate. To die in an attack led by the Blackfish.

Fair points, although I think you meant Edmure and Jeyne in your last point, not Jaime. Also, Jaime ordered Forley to deliver Jeyne to CR, so my curiosity is which POV we learn of Jeyne's fate through based on where we last left her...

If Jeyne doesn't show up at the BwB camp somehow, for example, then I suppose either Jaime or Brienne (whomever survives the upcoming encounter) could make their way back to Forley to provide a window into her fate, but why? How would that help the overall story, when neither Jaime nor Brienne were headed there prior?

My guess is that Jeyne ends up at the BwB camp somehow, perhaps having been taken captive on Stoneheart's orders...

Having Jeyne, Jaime and UnCat in the same area for a spell makes a lot of storytelling sense to me.

ETA: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows-Chapter_44

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That works if you see the show as a full-on American-style daytime soap opera, I suppose. "Days and Knights of Our Lives" perhaps or maybe "All My Warg Children?"

Any bets on the next character to be introduced being a "long lost" amnesiac evil twin who is also a secret Targaryen? Or if you want a less transparent plot twist, maybe a secret Blackfyre.

Not a secret Blackfyre, everyone expects secret Blackfyres (i.e. Aegon). I want the original one back, now undead.

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She is not going to the Rock. She is on her way back to the Crag with her father. She is to wait there for two years before she can marry again.

Right well then the question becomes if she does in fact stay there which POV is going to end up at the Crag.

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That's basically where my mind went too, concerning Jeyne at least... The only POVs Jeyne's arc has been told through so far are Cat and Jaime, and it would be a nice thickening of the stew for them to all be in the same location for part of a chapter.

If this comes to pass, and if Jeyne dies at the BwB camp, this would provide a much cleaner resolution to her part in the story than to simply be written out of necessity offstage... Which is where I thought things were heading until GRRM's post.

I don't think she will escape if the BwB attacks. Jaime put a strong guard of 800 troops around her and Edmure and placed a strong commander in Ser Forley Prester in command. Jaime thinks so much of him that considers him a strong candidate for Hand of the King once Cersei is removed.

Prester has orders to kill both Jeyne and Edmure should the Blackfish or anyone else attack. He has put ten of his best bowmen around and Edmure and will likely do the same with Jeyne, Her fate may be to die in an attempted attack.

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Fair points, although I think you meant Edmure and Jeyne in your last point, not Jaime. Also, Jaime ordered Forley to deliver Jeyne to CR, so my curiosity is which POV we learn of Jeyne's fate through based on where we last left her...

If Jeyne doesn't show up at the BwB camp somehow, for example, then I suppose either Jaime or Brienne (whomever survives the upcoming encounter) could make their way back to Forley to provide a window into her fate, but why? How would that help the overall story, when neither Jaime nor Brienne were headed there prior?

My guess is that Jeyne ends up at the BwB camp somehow, perhaps having been taken captive on Stoneheart's orders...

Having Jeyne, Jaime and UnCat in the same area for a spell makes a lot of storytelling sense to me.

ETA: http://awoiaf.wester...rows-Chapter_44

Not sure what is wrong with my previous post, but its a small matter either way.

Jeyne is to be taken back to the Crag with her mother and father, not Casterly Rock. Casterly Rock is where Edmure and his family are to spend the rest of their days.

I can't see the BwB or the Blackfish overcoming 800 seasoned troops led by a strong commander. Prester will follow orders and kill all hostages before he lets them go.

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It's 400 men, FWIW, and Forley's ultimate destination is CR with Edmure, to amend my earlier point.

In any case, what I'm suggesting is they don't make it. Crag or CR, there's not a POV present to provide the level of closure GRRM hints at, IMO. I think the Blackfish/BwB foreshadowing is in place for a reason, seasoned troops or not, and that's my best guess at present because Jaime seems to have picked up Jeyne's arc where Cat left off.

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It's 400 men, FWIW, and Forley's ultimate destination is CR with Edmure, to amend my earlier point.

In any case, what I'm suggesting is they don't make it. Crag or CR, there's not a POV present to provide the level of closure GRRM hints at, IMO. I think the Blackfish/BwB foreshadowing is in place for a reason, seasoned troops or not, and that's my best guess at present because Jaime seems to have picked up Jeyne's arc where Cat left off.

It is 400...thanks for the correction on that point.

This is still a pretty large force that will be on guard. Can't see the BwB attacking a force this large, as they are more of a hit and run, guerilla warfare type of group. Additionally, any rescue attempt must occur before Prester reaches the Golden Tooth, at which point any hope of escape would be lost.

Personally, I think they will make it. I think the Blackfish's goals are guerilla warfare in the Riverlands and the eventual retaking of Riverrun. Jeyne and whatever role she has left can be taken care of at the Crag.

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