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MidnightAurora

Why wasn't Catelyn and Tullys at the great Tourney of Harrenhal?

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I have read three books now and in each book one or more characters makes reference to the Great Harrenhal Tourney, but in none of the recollections is it noted that Catelyn and her family are there. If she was she would have danced with Brandon Stark and would have seen Ned and Lyanna and Benjen. Catelyn made note she never saw Ned before their wedding and was expecting a younger version of Brandon. I am asking why do you think she and the rest of her family were not there..? Do you think that is significant? She would have seen the Starks, Ashara etc.. and could have put things together later or is there more to them being absent at this Great tourney? In all the recollections the Lord of Harrenhal invited everyone and you would think his liege lord would come right?

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YeaH I always wondered that...especially since the Tourney is not far from Riverun


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Martin probably thought it would be more thematic if Cat hadn't met Ned before. It may have been too late when he realized the Tullys should have been at Harrenhall because of where they were situated. All guesses.

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This thread is old, but this question still bother me..


Tully's absence at the Tourney doesn't make sense..


Hoster was the Liege Lord of Riverlands, Lysa, Edmure and Cat are children of Minisa Whent. Brynden Tully was a great warrior, he should like to participate to the competition.


None of them attended the biggest and most important tourney of this period.


The tourney had as well a big political importance, and Hoster was a really politically savvy. He had to be at harrenhal, but he wasn't. Why?


Has anybody found any believable answer at that mystery?

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I'm just making some wild guesses here, but maybe there was some bad blood between the Whents and the Tullys at that time? Or they wanted to boast that they didn't need their liege lord and could be very well independent. But that's pure speculation, just wanted to share my thoughts.



Probably CosimaistheHottest is right and GRRM simply forgot like he forgets what eye color his protagonists have..


On the other hand there are so many (presumably) minor facts that are important later on, so it this could be one of them. We'll only know by the end of the ASoIaF series I fear...




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Well, no Tully is ever mentioned to have attended the tourney at Harrenhal as far as I know. And it seems a bit odd that no one would recognise the overlord house of the Riverlands. I mean they're one of the major Houses so everyone should know their sigil. And they should be at the center of the tourney alongside the other great houses of Westeros.


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Would this have been around the time of Lysa's little problem?


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Would this have been around the time of Lysa's little problem?

You mean her pregnancy? That would be possible..

But why shouldn't any of the Tullys have attended the tourney because of that? Hoster Tully could have just let Lysa at Riverrun under supervision and take Catelyn or even go without both of them. Still seems strange to me why there weren't any Tullys

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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Does anyone ever claim there were no Tullys in attendance?



Maybe it was just Cat who wasn't there. Or maybe Cat was there, but didn't see Ned. Or, maybe Cat saw Ned, but never saw him without his armour on and couldn't gauge how old he was. Or, maybe she saw his face and all, but never realised / couldn't remember him being there / paid no attention to him. Is the only piece of evidence that she didn't know what he looked like before she married, and was expecting a younger Brandon?


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Of course it's no evidence of absence, but it's just peculiar that no one recognised them if they would have been there.



I think there are two major POVs we get about the tourney (correct me if I'm wrong), one from Barristan and one from Howland Reed (through Meera). They both describe many houses such as the dragon (Targaryen), the wolf (Stark) and the griffin (Connington) but neither of them mentions a fish/trout which should have been near the seats of the other great houses. Or at least one or two of their members who sparred with the other attendants. I mean the Blackfish is a renown knight all over Westeros. But no such thing in these POVs...


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I didn't think of that one.



It's never stated when she died, not even Edmures year of birth as youngest surviving child is clear, so we can't tell when their mother died in childbirth. The tourney was in 281 AC and Edmure's year of birth is given between 267 and 277 AC, so it is possible that she died shortly before Harrenhal. We'll probably never know :bang:


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Minisa didn't die giving birth to Edmure.



Catelyn in Clash.


Lady Minisa Tully had died in childbed, trying to give Lord Hoster a second son. The baby had perished with her, and afterward some of the life had gone out of Father.


I also don't know why the wiki puts Edmure's date of birth possibly as late as 277. He squired for Brandon at the duel with Littlefinger. I don't think he was five.


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Minisa didn't die giving birth to Edmure.

Not what I meant. I know that she died giving birth to a son after Edmure, that's what I was trying to say. Although in hindsight my text is a bit confusing :D

I also don't know why the wiki puts Edmure's date of birth possibly as late as 277. He squired for Brandon at the duel with Littlefinger. I don't think he was five.

I forgot that fact. But it doesn't matter anyway, because we don't know when that second son was born and thus when Lady Minisa died. So if it was around 281 AC or not which was all I was trying to figure through Edmure. But it's not possible

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Could be that Hoster was mad at the Aerys for accepting Jaime to the KG, since Tywin and him were working on a betrothal between Jaime and Lysa.


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Prior engagement? Hawk killed the Invitation Raven? GRRM forgot about them?





Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Does anyone ever claim there were no Tullys in attendance?



Maybe it was just Cat who wasn't there. Or maybe Cat was there, but didn't see Ned. Or, maybe Cat saw Ned, but never saw him without his armour on and couldn't gauge how old he was. Or, maybe she saw his face and all, but never realised / couldn't remember him being there / paid no attention to him. Is the only piece of evidence that she didn't know what he looked like before she married, and was expecting a younger Brandon?




I like this.


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No Tully is mentioned to have been present at the tourney. Minisa was a Whent by birth, but it would seem she was at least one generation older than Oswell/Walter. Not definitly, but possibly.





Would this have been around the time of Lysa's little problem?




No. The tourney took place halfway through 281 AC, Lysa's problem would have been after the tourney, some months into 282 AC.





Minisa didn't die giving birth to Edmure.



Catelyn in Clash.



I also don't know why the wiki puts Edmure's date of birth possibly as late as 277. He squired for Brandon at the duel with Littlefinger. I don't think he was five.




The wiki states 277 AC as Edmure's last possible year of birth because he was squire to Brandon. The youngest squire we've seen in asoiaf was 5 years old, which is why, in calculations, being a squire in a certain year means the character was at least 5 years old in that specific year.



The wiki only gives the most outer years (absolute minimum and absolute maximum).


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