Is the queen of thorns sexist?

[A Man Has Said]

I don't think Olenna is anywhere near the sexiest, and it's a bit weird that you think she is. I mean really, she's OLD, man.

Probably the sexiest is Princess Arianne or maybe that Myrish swamp woman - Taena Merryweather.

Oh, wait -- the OP said SEXIST! My bad.

Never mind.

[Sansa_Stark]

This thread is funny, but not surprising. If it was a male character saying these things about women, he would quickly become on of the most hated characters on the board. The defences being put together for Olenna are awful. Whilst Olenna accused SOME women of being stupid, she accused ALL men of being stupid and say only there penis is useful.

However, sexism is fine as long as it is against men.

This is what I have been saying all the time. This is my problem with internet feminism.

[Elaena Targaryen]

This thread is funny, but not surprising. If it was a male character saying these things about women, he would quickly become on of the most hated characters on the board. The defences being put together for Olenna are awful. Whilst Olenna accused SOME women of being stupid, she accused ALL men of being stupid and say only there penis is useful.

However, sexism is fine as long as it is against men.

You are correct. I feel Olenna is absolutely being sexist and shows misandry. Just because she has reasons for her behavior it does not excuse it, we all have are reasons. Also just because Olenna makes the same snarky comments with women do not excuse it and it further shows her sexist attitude includes women. And all women have some degree of sexism, towards both genders, as well. Go ahead and analyze the why for Olenna all you want but it is there.

[binga]

Yes she is clearly sexist and also a murderer.

[Drogon'sWrath]

Of course she is. Granted, she's right when she says her son is an imbecile (I don't remember the exact quote but it was along those lines). However, she seems to have that attitude towards all men. She's been a good character to read, but damn is she sexist.

[Éadaoin]

This is what I have been saying all the time. This is my problem with internet feminism.

Tell me more. I'm listening intently.

To the OP- the QoT is a radiant goddess who has the brains to accumulate power in a brutish, patriarchal world. Her comments wrt men are reflections of the world she lives in- they may not be admirable opinions, but imo they are certainly understandable. Though she has quite a bit of privilege where class is concerned, she has very little in the realm of gender. It may be hard to see the QoT as a victim, but she is one. People forget that. They also seem to forget that she is flawless.

[Winter's Knight]

Oh God, E-ro your title!

Ahem. Plenty of male sexist characters are wildly popular on the board: Tywin, Stannis, Tyrion etc. so let's not talk about double standards natch.

Is Olenna sexist? Yes, partly out of resentment at having to take a backseat to her less intelligent male relatives and partly because she-like every other character in the books grew up in a highly sexist society.

Equal opportunity snarker, but biased against men.

[E-Ro]

Tell me more. I'm listening intently.

To the OP- the QoT is a radiant goddess who has the brains to accumulate power in a brutish, patriarchal world. Her comments wrt men are reflections of the world she lives in- they may not be admirable opinions, but imo they are certainly understandable. Though she has quite a bit of privilege where class is concerned, she has very little in the realm of gender. It may be hard to see the QoT as a victim, but she is one. People forget that. They also seem to forget that she is flawless.

This post was breathtaking tbh, even if i disagree. So well written as usual.

Oh God, E-ro your title!

Ahem. Plenty of male sexist characters are wildly popular on the board: Tywin, Stannis, Tyrion etc. so let's not talk about double standards natch.

Is Olenna sexist? Yes, partly out of resentment at having to take a backseat to her less intelligent male relatives and partly because she-like every other character in the books grew up in a highly sexist society.

Equal opportunity snarker, but biased against men.

:D This is an interesting way to put it, and so far one of the best posts in the thread. I guess I like the term "biased" for the qot if sexist is too strong a term.

[Burdette]

The way I see her is that she is biased towards women. Not because she thinks women are superior, but because most MEN think THEY are superior. (which is not true at all)

[Morienthar]

Olenna is at the end of the day a bitter old woman who thinks she can do everything better than the people around her and at most times is right at least when it comes down to her family anyway.

[The Dragon & The Wolf]

This thread is funny, but not surprising. If it was a male character saying these things about women, he would quickly become on of the most hated characters on the board. The defences being put together for Olenna are awful. Whilst Olenna accused SOME women of being stupid, she accused ALL men of being stupid and say only there penis is useful.

However, sexism is fine as long as it is against men.

Haha I agree... Your comment here reminds me of that HUGE debate on another thread concerning whether or not Cersei's penance walk was misogynistic/sexist and therefore made it completely wrong . You had some great points but clearly the female posters were not having it lol.

As for Olenna I think she has such views on men because of those she's surrounded by (she refers to her own husband & son as an oaf) and because of Westerosi policies and probably see's herself as a much much effective leader than many men and will never get such a chance and has to do so through others.

And yes someone has the right of it she is also a murderer lmao... "That's it? I wanted to hear the Rains of Castamere"

[nedstarknaked]

I always got the impression that Lady Olenna was a bit a satire of the general attitude of most of the male (and a lot of female) characters in Westeros-- there are loads of comments about women that are taken in universe as reasonable and sensible, but her (arguably similar) comments about the men around her are often perceived as slightly shocking. So yes, I would say she is sexist to some extent, but for a purpose.

[MotherAnduin]

I thought her comment about the Summer Islanders having no imagination was pretty racist.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Your comment here reminds me of that HUGE debate on another thread concerning whether or not Cersei's penance walk was misogynistic/sexist and therefore made it completely wrong . You had some great points but clearly the female posters were not having it lol.

It was, it is, it always will be, no matter what, and the author who wrote the scene intended it as so

[SeanF]

No, I think Olenna just enjoys making snide comments about almost everyone.

[Le Cygne]

She's the Queen of Snark.

[SeanF]

I don't think Olenna is anywhere near the sexiest, and it's a bit weird that you think she is. I mean really, she's OLD, man.

Probably the sexiest is Princess Arianne or maybe that Myrish swamp woman - Taena Merryweather.

There's a whole sub-genre of erotic literature which features elderly women.

[l3ol3o]

I think you guys are ignoring the second quote.

I’ve never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they’re only men with the useful bits cut off.

^that is blatant misandry saying that the only useful part of a man are his reproductive organs.

Yup. If Stannis or another male character said "I've never been quite sure what the point of a (woman without a vagina or breasts) is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only women with the useful bits cut off."

This is obviously a sexist statement just as the statement the QoT made is sexist.

Actually, a perusal of Sansa's first chapter in ASoS shows us that Lady Olenna also has a rather dim view of certain of the women surrounding her. Here are some of her quotes (any bolding is my emphasis):

All those quotes refer to a few women. The quotes by E-Ro refer to all men.

This would be like saying because someone thought the men of the NW are a bunch of fools they are sexist. It's different then someone thinking all men are fools.

This thread is funny, but not surprising. If it was a male character saying these things about women, he would quickly become on of the most hated characters on the board. The defences being put together for Olenna are awful. Whilst Olenna accused SOME women of being stupid, she accused ALL men of being stupid and say only there penis is useful.

However, sexism is fine as long as it is against men.

Sad but true. This is very true in western society and this view is reflected on this board.

Just look at this quote by Obama: "Women can do anything men can. And do it better. And do it with one hand tied behind their backs." Now this is obviously complete bullshit and pathetic political pandering but it is also blatantly sexist towards men. What do you think the response was when Obama said this? Rousing applause and cheers of course.

Now image if he said "Men can do anything women can. And do it better. And do it with one hand tied behind their backs." He would be crucified. His political career would be done. He wouldn't even be able to get a job at McDonald's probably. He would be chased out of the country by feminists in vagina costumes.

This view is reflected by some on this board. Any hint of sexism towards women and there will be big problems. Sexism towards men is excused with the popular excuse in this thread being the patriarchy.

This is spot-on E-Ro! As we know, Martin likes to parallel story lines. Queen Cersei is the biggest misogynist in the series. The QoT is the biggest misandryist. Really, I don't know how Martin could have made this more obvious.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I agree. It seems pretty obvious to me also especially when it comes to Cersei and QoT.

Oh God, E-ro your title!

Ahem. Plenty of male sexist characters are wildly popular on the board: Tywin, Stannis, Tyrion etc. so let's not talk about double standards natch.

Is Olenna sexist? Yes, partly out of resentment at having to take a backseat to her less intelligent male relatives and partly because she-like every other character in the books grew up in a highly sexist society.

Equal opportunity snarker, but biased against men.

What does popularity have to do with anything? I love the QoT even though she is sexist. I also love plenty of male characters who are sexist.

And the QoT is more powerful then any other of the Hightowers. She basically rules the Reach while the Hightowers only rule Oldtown. This is a unique case where only a woman would be able to gain more power then her male relatives via marriage to a higher ranked house and ruling through her child. So I'm not sure where you are getting the QoT is in the backseat when she is riding shotgun with Mace with everyone else in the Reach taking a backseat to her.

[Sansa_Stark]

The difference between Tyrion, Tywin and other male sexist characters is that everyone likes those characters, but realize their faults. I doubt anyone will tell you that Tyrion or Tywin aren't sexist. That doesn't mean people can't like them despite their faults. The problem is that Olenna is blatantly sexist and there pretty irrefutable quotes posted in this very topic.

And yet people are still trying to deny that she is a sexist because of double standards.

[Pinkie Baelish]

"I’ve never been quite sure what the point of a Silent Sister is, if truth be told. It seems to me they’re only women with the useful bits being off limits."

Now if Tyrion had said that, wouldn't that be considered as sexist or misogynistic? It would be used as fodder in every "Tyrion is the devil" thread. Just playing devil's advocate here. I don't want to turn this into a whole sexism/double standards debate though. Thanks E-Ro, for pointing this out though.

Regardless of her views on men, Olenna will still remain awesome in my eyes. Poisoning that little shit of a king makes up for the odd sexist comment here and there.