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Angalin

Small questions v.10010

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Something less than year since Beric's first death. The brotherhood had probably existed in one form or another before that and we don't know how much time it took before he joined them/took control.

The Brotherhood came into existence when Robert died, basically. They began with the men sent out by Ned Stark to put down the vandalism done under Gregor Clegane, led by Beric. Without his leadership they seem closer to being broken men after he's gone.

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Is the stigma of being a bastard overstated?

Despite the fact that even smallfolk will use 'Bastard' as an insult, most of the acknowledged bastards we see have far better lives and opportunities than most smallfolk.

Ned's treatment of Jon Snow as if he were his trueborn son is initially presented as unusual, but it seems less so as we go on; Doran Martell seems to treat the Sand Snakes as if they were Oberyn's legitimate daughters, and from what we know about the Freys, Walder Rivers does not appear to be treated differently to his trueborn half-brothers.

To me Cat seems to be the one who oversells the "bastards are evil" thing. Which is odd considering that the bastard she sees most is the best one in the book.

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Let me try this again....

Why did Mel want to make a shadow baby with Davos way back in Davos III of Storm? That was while Davos was still locked up but after the started being nice to him. It was before the leeches and way before they received word of Mance's army at the Wall.

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Let me try this again....

Anything to further Staniss' campaign and because she know's how loyal Davos is to Stannis so i'd assume that maybe she thought he might go for since it would be in the benefit of their mutual firend. Also Stannis coildn't make any more since it would have killed him,his fires burned low remember.

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Let me try this again....

Well she needed someone to bang. Davos was healthy and Stannis was not. And importantly, Davos already knew about the shadow babies. This made it less complicated for her. He wouldn't go spreading the word to anyone. I gusse it would be possible to make a shadow baby with someone without them knowing about the shadow baby, im not sure though. But also like, if Mel just banged some random dude, he would probablly go bragging about it all like "yeah i banged the red preistess" and that would draw attention. Davos is really the only loyal guy Stannis has; he's the only one who would keep the secret. So bassically, she wanted Davos because he was the guy who she could make a shadow baby with while keeping the whole thing low key. That's what I think at least. It's possible there's some other reason that will be revealed later, who knows. I gusse if she really wanted to she could have found someone else though, but she ended up just doing the leech thing.

Actually, that's not fully true. Though Sansa was abused by Joffrey she never came to harm..... Or at least not physically, and even if she was harmed it was only small. As for Arya they couldn't have harmed her, as you know she escaped!

Actually, everything I said was true. Sansa most certaintly did come to harm. As Jory Cassel explained so well.

It was only small? She was repeatedly beaten by grown men with no scruples doing so, only Sandor refused and Arys tried not to beat her that hard. Yes she came to harm, both physically and mentally.

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Yeah yeah I understand Mel likes bangin & Stannis's fire was burning low but what was she gonna do with a shadow baby at that time?

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Do bears and other animals still hibernate?

Interesting,I don't think they can,the summers and winters are both far too long to have a hibernating cycle in animals.

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Yeah yeah I understand Mel likes bangin & Stannis's fire was burning low but what was she gonna do with a shadow baby at that time?

My bad, I thought you meant why did she pick Davos. I assume she wanted to kill the other kings, since that's what she did in the end anyway with the leeches. She may have already been planning to burn Edric when she went to Davos, but I think buring him was to like "wake the stone dragons" or something related to AAR, not to kill the other kings.

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Yeah yeah I understand Mel likes bangin & Stannis's fire was burning low but what was she gonna do with a shadow baby at that time?

Look what she used the other two shadowbabies for. They were each used to take out the figure head of an opposing force. It seems reasonable that she intended to keep using shadowbabies for this purpose. Maybe she didn't trust that her leech trick would work out. After all, she was relying on her interpretation of the vision being accurate as well as all those involved in kingly assassinations following through with the plans.

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Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.

What does it mean ? Is Dany going to get raped by an Other ?

Do we have any theories about it ? :dunno:

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What does it mean ? Is Dany going to get raped by an Other ?

Do we have any theories about it ? :dunno:

I took it to mean that Hizdahr is doomed to die in the near future.

She is apprehensive of her wedding night with Hizdahr and thus dreams about it (in a somewhat fearful state of mind), prophetic dreams kick in and represent Hizdahr as the corpse he'll soon be (which makes the whole thing extra frightening of course).

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Look what she used the other two shadowbabies for. They were each used to take out the figure head of an opposing force. It seems reasonable that she intended to keep using shadowbabies for this purpose. Maybe she didn't trust that her leech trick would work out. After all, she was relying on her interpretation of the vision being accurate as well as all those involved in kingly assassinations following through with the plans.

But she was on DS at the time. What is the maximum effective range of a shadow baby?

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But she was on DS at the time. What is the maximum effective range of a shadow baby?

Yes, and she was asking a smuggler to help her conceive the shadowbabies. They needn't have stayed on Dragonstone after the night of pleasure. Still, we don't know the range of these shadowy beasts. The only limits we know of is that they can not penetrate magical wards and that most of the consequence is borne by the one who provides the seed (and probably the one who dies).

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Yes, and she was asking a smuggler to help her conceive the shadowbabies. They needn't have stayed on Dragonstone after the night of pleasure. Still, we don't know the range of these shadowy beasts. The only limits we know of is that they can not penetrate magical wards and that most of the consequence is borne by the one who provides the seed (and probably the one who dies).

What about those magic leeches? Do you think they were really magic or do you think she saw the three deaths in her flames and did the leech trick to prove the power of king's blood?

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What about those magic leeches? Do you think they were really magic or do you think she saw the three deaths in her flames and did the leech trick to prove the power of king's blood?

If the leech spell were legit, it would seem a bit OP. After all, leeching isn't particularly bad (often even considered healthy) and Edric Storm was not the only person with king's blood. So why didn't Mel collect a few leechfuls of blood every three days (from Stannis himself or from Shireen), offing all of Stannis's enemies one after the other?

Either because there is a long magical cooldown on that spell we haven't been told about, or it was just an act to try to claim credit for what she had already seen in the flames. My money is on the latter.

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What about those magic leeches? Do you think they were really magic or do you think she saw the three deaths in her flames and did the leech trick to prove the power of king's blood?

This was discussed before, and it was almost general consensus that Melisandre simply foresaw deaths of Balon, Robb and Joffrey in her fires, and then manipulated Stan into thinking these deaths had something to do with leeches he threw into fire. R&B&J would have died anyway, Mel just used her knowledge to trick Stan into thinking he caused it.

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What about those magic leeches? Do you think they were really magic or do you think she saw the three deaths in her flames and did the leech trick to prove the power of king's blood?

In addition to what others have said, I'd just add again that the leeches were obviously a trick. The deaths of Robb, Balon and Joffrey had been in the making long before Stannis tossed those leeches into the fire and said some words. The leeches would have had to be so powerful to control the will and the memories of scores of people. If this is the case, Mel might as well have made the spell so that the mind control turned people into being Stannis and R'hllor fanatics.

And really, why wouldn't Mel have just used Stannis or Shireen's blood? Leeches aren't harmful. Mel just wanted to sway Stannis into burning Edric by tricking him into believing that Edric's blood was good enough for a sacrifice.

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