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Shireen's True Purpose (spoilers)


Stannis Lives

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This is a good catch but I don't think it means anything. It's about POV, not about reality. It could be perceived signs. It could be subtle signs.

It could be a red herring from GRRM. It might not be correct that it fulfills some magical prophecy but it might still be Jon's awakening and Jon's rebirth. I think the entire prophecy component is metaphorical and open to interpretation. It doesn't change the narrative or the course of events however.

There is something on the Winter Fell thread, the last post I think you'll find interesting. I would provide the link, but I'm using my phone.:(

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It's a nice theory, but I don't think Mels is the one to resurrect Jon, Bloodraven and Bran are. In Theon's TWOW sample chapter

the ravens in it keep saying "tree" and "Theon" this could be Bran or Bloodraven Skinchanging into the ravens and trying to get Stannis to agree with Asha about beheading Theon in front of the Weirwood.

Stannis will then go to the Weirwood, but before he can execute Theon, Theon remembers what Luwin said and requests to join the NW, and once a man has requested that, they are allowed to go. But this stops Bran and Bloodraven using Theon's blood sacrifice to force Jon's soul from Ghost back into Jon's body.

But in ADWD Asha had a POV called "The Sacrifice". Also in ADWD when cornered against a tree she almost gets killed. This foreshadows that in the Battle of Ice Asha will be cornered against the Weirwood tree and will be an accidental sacrifice for Bran and Bloodraven to use for Jon.

And I also think the wake the dragon out of stone could be people discovering Jon is a Targ (dragon) when they open Lyanna's tomb and find evidence of R+L=J, maybe Howland is there to show them.

:agree: As a footnote, in ADWD there are loads of references to Greyscale, in Braavos, at the Wall, in Essos, and with Jon Connington. Is this some type of foreshadowing to do with a massive plague, maybe even something related to the Others. The Stone men in Tyrions chapter on the barge reminded me of wights in a way, could this all be linked in some bizarre way? Only my third post, so when this is proven to be stupid, or pointing out the obvious, don't be to brutal

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Something else, Shireen is the blood of a contender for King. The never-was heir to a rebellious coup king. That blood might not get Mel all the way there if she requires the blood of kings. Same with Gilly's baby, or whomever's baby it was, the son of someone merely called a king by people who just as loudly insist they kneel to no one. Would that have really been the best blood to use for a recipe that demands the blood of kings?

Jon, if it's true about him, is the actual king.

What's even better from Mel's perspective, he's a king she can kill "for free."

Nobody else knows he's king, nor even cares, ....except for the gods who oversee these weird sacrifice rituals. (the magical forces which parcel out power based on the worthiness of each sacrifice.) Those powers would honor Jon's sacrifice as if a real sitting king had just given himself to the flames, I'd reckon. And Mel wouldn't have to go through the ordeal of convincing an entire kingdom to part with thier monarch. No, she wouldn't have to pry him away from active duty to anyone but could just gank him easily, especially if she'd first maneuvered events to make Jon very unpopular, so not that many voices would be raised against her even by the Watch whom Jon had been leader of up until an hour ago. Hmmmm........

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Great OP, makes a huge amount of sense and is total GRRM, and a brilliant post by Ser Wun Wun too might I add.

Interestingly it might coincide with a certain king's blood weirwood sacrifice in the Wolfswood, leaving us readers arguing over which sacrifice, if any, was responsible for Jon's 'rebirth'. Might even be a combination of both if it was somehow Stannis first at Asha's hand and then Shireen?

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Great OP, makes a huge amount of sense and is total GRRM, and a brilliant post by Ser Wun Wun too might I add.

Interestingly it might coincide with a certain king's blood weirwood sacrifice in the Wolfswood, leaving us readers arguing over which sacrifice, if any, was responsible for Jon's 'rebirth'. Might even be a combination of both if it was somehow Stannis first at Asha's hand and then Shireen?

To add to your post, this scenario could also I suppose, be a parallel of some kind to the three "attempts" inadvertently forged by Dany to hatch the dragons, which comprised Rhaego, Drogo and MMD?

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To add to your post, this scenario could also I suppose, be a parallel of some kind to the three "attempts" inadvertently forged by Dany to hatch the dragons, which comprised Rhaego, Drogo and MMD?

Indeed, for Rhaego, Drogo, MMD, and dragons read Shireen, Stannis, Mel, and Jon. I think the different religions and beliefs have their own interpretations of the magical and supernatural elements of GRRM's world, but while the belief or religion might differ the magic at the root of it all is one and the same.

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I've had a theory about Shireen since she was introduced, and upon the "death" of Jon Snow at the end of Book 5, it all came clear for me. I have posted this theory in a few places but I feel it's worthy of its own string for discussion.

I have always felt that Mel's obsession with King's Blood, and the resistance of Stannis' inner circle and later Jon, would eventually lead to Shireen. Her entire purpose and her entire arc has been for this moment. Her greyscale (disease of stone), her mother's obsession with the Lord of Light, getting to the wall, Jon removing King's Blood from the wall, Stannis' absence and potential death, Jon's potential death..... poor Shireen is all alone, unprotected, with a very very specific purpose: To fulfill the prophecy so that Mel can save Jon, and he can be reborn as AA.

When the red star bleeds - Ser Patrek's bloody body with stars in the sky

and darkness gathers, - winter is coming per the white raven

Azor Ahai shall be born amidst smoke and salt - Bowen's tears and Jon's wound

to wake dragons out of stone. -Shireen has the stone man's disease and has king's blood. Jon will be on the verge of death and Mel will sacrifice Shireen to save Jon, fulfilling the prophecy and Jon will be reborn as AA.

While I believe a horrid occurrence, it has just the right amount of crediblity and GRRM grit. Mel is committed enough to do it. The Queen is fanatical enough to help sacrifice her own daughter. To me it's dark, intense, consistent, powerful, and disturbing. This is right up GRRM's alley and will certainly be appeasing to fans rather than an unJon or Jon living his life as Ghost etc.

There has to be a reason for Shireen being at the wall with Stannis gone. It even begs the question if Mel wrote the fake Ramsay letter to get Jon to do something stupid and leave Shireen unprotected.

I have thinked about that too...but you expressed way better.

Another theory I was thinking is that for the same reasons you wrote about...Shireen's true purpose is become the girl version of the Night's King and lead the Others in the same way... Dany is the girl version of Aegon the Conqueror.

I thinked about that because in some books...the Evil god always use the body of the most innocent child so it can reborn. Davos is far away, Mel can do more harm than good and she think her father died...and so she think that to honor her family she must take the IT...I can see a scenario of she alone crying and then Patchface get near her....oh, oh, oh. Why so sad my little Queen? I can make the pain go away...you will never have to be afraid again...Just take my hand. And then when Shireen rise...she have blue eyes, deeper and bluer than the ocean.

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Ready, set, crackpot! What if Melisandre is just misinterpreting a word in the prophecy. We don't know how the Others were defeated last time. Even the use of dragon glass was forgotten. There has been an awful lot of gargoyle thrown around subtly. Bran right in the beginning feels most at home among them, lord of winter fell in a way Robb will never know. Bran the builder built winterfell over 8000 years ago. before the Others came last. It is more than implied that built in a very magical way. Azor Ahai reborn to save the world. What if its a very old word and the word means guardian or something such. Wake the guardians from stone.

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I've fought stone golums and gargoyles as a vampire on the playstation and these stone-awakened opponents were not the strongest or best creatures in the game. So if gargoyles and stone dragons do awaken, prepare to be underwhelmed. Plus, that'd be too far removed from the established tone. We've been hammered all along with a more visceral reality. This is a world in which human effort decides the outcome. Gargoyle reinforcements that turn the tide would be a sad turn of events.

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Oh shit I like it. The important ones will need swords though, theirs have turned to dust. And I'm guessing from the GoT prologue, they're gonna need good ones. I just don't see the point of it being dragons. Unless there are entirely different dragons we know nothing about. Stone eggs have already turned to dragons on the other side of the world. I don't see Dany being AAR. That wouldn't be a progression of the story for me. It would be how a genius author ruined his greatest work, again only for me. But I'm not a huge Dany fan, sooo my opinion is slanted to something forgotten has to wake in the north. The dragons have woken up. The red god is awake. The drowned god is awake. But the problem of the others is of the north and unless the weirwoods are secretly Ents they can't fight sogood. I always thought the ignorance of kings landing was representative of this being the Norths problem to handle. He was persuaded to use actual dragons in the first place. I just can't see it being the reason for the entire set up.

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I think this is an excellent example of Mel's perspective from a Davos POV in ACOK.

“I am like this torch, Ser Davos. We are both instruments of R’hllor. We were made for a single purpose—to keep the darkness at bay. Do you believe that?"

She lives for a single purpose and any and all actions must be to serve that purpose regardless of the consequences.

“Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand.”

The iron throne, claims, love, honor etc mean nothing in the face of The Battle of the Dawn.

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