Why Sansa is a great character

[tallTale]

She has made some mistakes but paid a harsh lesson for them.

As for her becoming this devious mastermind under LF tutelage I would rather her stay an honest person.

It would be too anti-Stark if Sansa became a liar/manipulator.

[Lyanna Stark]

I never forgave him.

I agree. I grew up reading the Narnia books at least ten times each, but that always galled me.

[ARYa_Nym]

I'd be interested to know which other female characters or major fantasy works are anything like Sansa. I've read Fantasy for over 20 years and have never encountered any female character like hers and I've covered most major Fantasy works available to me, including some forays into UF.

,

I'm sure if you go on t.v. tropes. org there will be a list of tropes that applies to her. If she was an entirely new character for fantasy that wouldn't happen.

I'll repeat the some of the ones mentioned earlier in the thread. She is similar to older fantasy tropes the damsel only she doesn't get saved. However, in many of the original fairy tales they didn't get saved either. What happened to them is worse than what happened to Sansa. Disney just couldn't sell that to children. Sansa's story I think will be lighter.

Then of course I mentioned the whole hot auburn haired chick. I'm sick and tired of reading about beautiful redheads and auburn haired women. I guess nerds find this hot.

I also don't want to read another beauty and the beast story again. It makes me want to vomit. I don't find SanSan as compelling. I didn't care for the original either but SanSan I like less.

I dislike the fact that so many characters are attracted to her. This is common for fantasy as I mentioned. SPOILER:See Kvothe in the Kingkiller Chronicles when he finally has sex. All of sudden every woman wants him. For example, in a recent thread it was said of course Aegon will like Sansa. Everyone thinks she's beautiful.

This is what I liked about Quentyn's introduction. He was a break from the mold. He seemed to prefer the girl next door. That's more true to real life. People have different types. It's only in these types of books where everyone wants a certain character.

[honeyed chicken]

Sansa didn't betrey Ned lol. She just wanted to marry her Prince... She was 12 Ffs.

Anyway yeah she's awesome. The LF scenes are a bit rapey though. Ugh LF is a hideous creature. Cant wait until Sansa sells him out.

Well said.

I'm a little surprised by all the positive reaction in this thread for Sansa. I spent a fair amount of time last week on the "POV you like least" thread and Sansa was near the top of that list (Daenerys was way ahead of everybody and Brienne was after her).

I do agree that Sansa's parts are well written, but to respond specifically to Prince of Newcastle's statement that Sansa did not betray Ned, well technically she did. There's a scene in aCoK when Tyrion has just shown the Small Council the letter from Tywin naming Tyrion Hand that speaks to this. Cersei has dismissed the other councilors so she and Tyrion can speak in private and she tells Tyrion what a close thing it was with Ned. The tipping point in her favor was Sansa telling her of Ned's plans to get the girls out of the city and with that ship was a letter from Ned to Stannis. That information made cersei see what a precarious position she was in and forced her to grab Ned before he could get the Small Council to formally acknowledge him as Lord Protector of the Realm. Had they done that, it would have been over for Cersei. Instead, Ned was the one in the dungeons.

Sansa did that.

Where I agree with the Prince of Newcastle is that Sansa was 12 and in love. There's a reason we now separate kids of that age from grrades 1 - 6 and grades 9 - 12. The adolescent brain is going through some gruesome stuff at that point. I have a 22 year old daughter - I've seen it. One dad said to me that his formerly sweet daughter became what he dubbed, "the creature" at that point in her life. Those are things that we know scientifically now that obviously we didn't know at the equivalent time period of this story. However a good writer can show the reader what Sansa would be going through and make the reader see why she might do something so heinous.

GRRM does not write his characters that way. He leaves them twisting in the wind and it is up to you, the reader to dig in and understand the motivations.

LF is like that in the other direction. LF is one awful bastard, but because he performs his treachery with a smile and a wink, most readers seem not to see it.

[nirolo]

I am a fan of Sansa for the opposite reasons than OP - I really like reading the PoV of well written characters who are quite different from me and see the world in a much different way. I tend to be cynical, it';s very difficult for me to forgive people and see the best in them, I've never cared much for courtesies, etiquette, and all that, etc.

This explains it! Why we always go at each other's throat. I'm exactly the opposite. I always see the best in people and quite willing to forgive.

You've earned by respect though, brah.

[Lala]

Well said.

I'm a little surprised by all the positive reaction in this thread for Sansa. I spent a fair amount of time last week on the "POV you like least" thread and Sansa was near the top of that list (Daenerys was way ahead of everybody and Brienne was after her).

I do agree that Sansa's parts are well written, but to respond specifically to Prince of Newcastle's statement that Sansa did not betray Ned, well technically she did. There's a scene in aCoK when Tyrion has just shown the Small Council the letter from Tywin naming Tyrion Hand that speaks to this. Cersei has dismissed the other councilors so she and Tyrion can speak in private and she tells Tyrion what a close thing it was with Ned. The tipping point in her favor was Sansa telling her of Ned's plans to get the girls out of the city and with that ship was a letter from Ned to Stannis. That information made cersei see what a precarious position she was in and forced her to grab Ned before he could get the Small Council to formally acknowledge him as Lord Protector of the Realm. Had they done that, it would have been over for Cersei. Instead, Ned was the one in the dungeons.

Sansa did that.

Where I agree with the Prince of Newcastle is that Sansa was 12 and in love. There's a reason we now separate kids of that age from grrades 1 - 6 and grades 9 - 12. The adolescent brain is going through some gruesome stuff at that point. I have a 22 year old daughter - I've seen it. One dad said to me that his formerly sweet daughter became what he dubbed, "the creature" at that point in her life. Those are things that we know scientifically now that obviously we didn't know at the equivalent time period of this story. However a good writer can show the reader what Sansa would be going through and make the reader see why she might do something so heinous.

GRRM does not write his characters that way. He leaves them twisting in the wind and it is up to you, the reader to dig in and understand the motivations.

LF is like that in the other direction. LF is one awful bastard, but because he performs his treachery with a smile and a wink, most readers seem not to see it.

There's also a slight "mistake" on Ned's part I just wanted to point out =P

Arya asked Ned if she could go for one last lesson with Syrio and Ned said "sure go ahead! if he wants, we'll even take him to WF!"

Then Sansa asks him if she could go and say her farewells to the Queen and Joff and Ned said "No."

What Sansa did was disobedient, silly, and stupid, yes, but Ned never explained the gravity of the situation to her or why he was making a distinction between Syrio and Cersei/Joff, so from Sansa's point of view it felt like "Dad always spoils Arya!"

[Elaena Targaryen]

Definitely! But then I hope you can appreciate why Sansa fans love her so much - her stereotypical role in fantasy literature is usually very powerless and almost always a victim (princess in the tower) - for Martin to write her as a character who does fight back and does rebel (in the small ways she can) and to completely subvert the knight-in-shining-armor trope is very empowering.

Yes I can because I am a fan of Sansa too. :) Also this is what I said in my original post so I wasn't sure why I was being corrected or why it was misunderstood. I only elaborated on Arya and Dany in the second post, which I'm a Dany and Arya fan too, and Cat as well, I could keep going... :P

[Lyanna Stark]

,

I'm sure if you go on t.v. tropes. org there will be a list of tropes that applies to her. If she was an entirely new character for fantasy that wouldn't happen.

TV tropes covers other genres though. I am speifically looking for a female character in Fantasy that is a major POV character characterised by the fact that her femininity is not seen as negative and who goes through major character development. In any non UA Fantasy I have so far come across absolutely zero of those, throughout twenty years. Hence I am interested in specifics for Fantasy since that is what is referenced here and that is what you, too, reference.

Tv tropes or classics are not really interesting in this case.

I'll repeat the some of the ones mentioned earlier in the thread. She is similar to older fantasy tropes the damsel only she doesn't get saved.

Sansa has touches of the Damsel yes, but she isn't a damsel since she is the hero of her own story. A Damsel is there to be saved by the male hero. That is the definition of the trope. Sansa has her own character development, her own trajectory. Hence the Damsel trope does not at all cover what her character is about.

However, in many of the original fairy tales they didn't get saved either. What happened to them is worse than what happened to Sansa. Disney just couldn't sell that to children. Sansa's story I think will be lighter.

I agree that inspiration for Sansa's character comes far more from older fairy tales and myths, but again, a lot of them were including moral messages about how young women should behave, and most of the ones featuring young women are about them facing various trials in order to win a suitable (princely and pretty) husband.

Then of course I mentioned the whole hot auburn haired chick. I'm sick and tired of reading about beautiful redheads and auburn haired women. I guess nerds find this hot.

That's an authorial choice, to be sure. The same could be argued about Dany being silver-haired, since blonde women are often seen as prettier and child-like.

I also don't want to read another beauty and the beast story again. It makes me want to vomit. I don't find SanSan as compelling. I didn't care for the original either but SanSan I like less.

Again, criticism of the way the character arcs are written, which is fair enough, but should perhaps be levelled at the author that you don't like Sansa because you do not like the B&B inspiration for it.

I dislike the fact that so many characters are attracted to her. This is common for fantasy as I mentioned. SPOILER:See Kvothe in the Kingkiller Chronicles when he finally has sex. All of sudden every woman wants him. For example, in a recent thread it was said of course Aegon will like Sansa. Everyone thinks she's beautiful.

I'd be surprised if Aegon even meets Sansa. People disregard geography and politics. Dany, Cersei and Margaery are all said to be extremely beautiful, and so were Catelyn Tully and Lyanna Stark.

[Mayura]

I personally like Sansa as I like every character of the books, simply because they are great and well composed characters.

Sansa is the most "normal" of them all. She was born in a family without any problems, she was raised to believe the world was good, the people were nice and that she would marry a beautiful noble man she would love. She was as girls her age are, they dream of nice fairytale romances, of brave knights, they like what's beautiful and they assume life will be easy forever.

I read a lot that people think Sansa betrayed Ned. It indeed seems a betrayal to us readers, but actually, she acted like a regular teenager. She didn't understand what was going on in KL and she wanted to be defiant. She wanted to stay in KL and be with her Prince and she didn't understand the reasons her dad wanted her away from there. So as a "revenge", she took the matter to Cersei. Sansa was naive, as we can expect from someone her age with the same "everyone is nice" education.

As a woman, however, I don't read Sansa's chapter with the same "fear" some seem to feel. The risk of assault and rape is present even in Daenerys's arc (her wedding to Drogo, the threat of Viserys wanting to rape her, and besides that, some other men have made a point of saying they'd rape her) or in Arya's arc (if I remember well, Rorge tells several times he is going to rape her and some men's attitudes towards her aren't at all welcome either). But it is more present in Sansa's arc, it is true, as being abused is harder on her than it is for Dany (who is, for example, hit by Viserys but reacts differently) or for Arya (who is hit by several men without making a big deal out of it). Sansa, to the contrary of other female characters, is indeed a simple girl, who isn't tough by nature and so the violence she experiences features more heavily during her POVs.

However, I think Sansa is a great character, because in the end, she is a character without enemies as such. Sansa has often been manipulated, yes, but her seemingly "weak" personality tends to protect her in a way, as nobody believes Sansa is going to rebel in any way but will just be there to manipulate whenever it's needed. Thus I think that the fact she can be a little bit "forgotten" by the other characters is giving her a certain edge.

Right now, Sansa is learning how the world works and observing how things are done. I don't think her question to LF in ADWD was "innocent". She asks him if she was a pawn (spell?) and he replies that she is but that it makes no matter, not everyone is fit to play the GOT. So I think Sansa is going to get in the game without being noticed by more proeminent characters. She is going to be working in the shadows and I believe she might well be a winner at the GOT :)

[Lala]

Yes I can because I am a fan of Sansa too. :) Also this is what I said in my original post so I wasn't sure why I was being corrected or why it was misunderstood. I only elaborated on Arya and Dany in the second post, which I'm a Dany and Arya fan too, and Cat as well, I could keep going... :P

:grouphug:

Strong female characters \o/

[ARYa_Nym]

TV tropes covers other genres though. I am speifically looking for a female character in Fantasy that is a major POV character characterised by the fact that her femininity is not seen as negative and who goes through major character development. In any non UA Fantasy I have so far come across absolutely zero of those, throughout twenty years. Hence I am interested in specifics for Fantasy since that is what is referenced here and that is what you, too, reference.

Tv tropes or classics are not really interesting in this case.

Well, I mentioned that I saw SPOILER:Vin from Mistborn as refreshing because she learned to both embrace her femininity and the fact that she fights and uses magic. She learned that liking dances, dresses, court intrigue, romance, was part of her too and it's nothing to be ashamed of. It has it's uses too. Kelsier used her femininity to gather useful information.

There are other characters where I don't see it as negative. Tessa from one of those Cassandra Clare series. I dislike her but I'm sure other people love her. It's set in the Victorian era.

Meghan Chase from The Iron Fey series I actually like. She's closer to feminine than she is to masculine. She didn't have powers until maybe the second book but that didn't stop her. She learned to love and how to be a queen. She didn't need a sword to do it.

There are more. Luce or whatever or name is from the Fallen series is feminine. Personally, I find her useless as a character I stopped at book 1 though so I can't really judge but her femininity is not seen as negative.

There are more YA books of the like.

I agree that inspiration for Sansa's character comes far more from older fairy tales and myths, but again, a lot of them were including moral messages about how young women should behave, and most of the ones featuring young women are about them facing various trials in order to win a suitable (princely and pretty) husband.

We discussed earlier how Sleeping Beauty gets a monster as husband. "Prince Charming" is her rapist.

That's an authorial choice, to be sure. The same could be argued about Dany being silver-haired, since blonde women are often seen as prettier and child-like.

Silver hair is not as common as redhaired and auburn hair is when it comes to fantasy and comic books. I've been reading a lot of fiction lately and it seems in most of them there is a beautiful redhead or auburn haired girl. It's annoying. & of course there are major comic book characters like that-Black Widow, the girl from Spiderman, some in Xmen, etc.

Dany's looks are a common trope concerning the elvish type trope of looking otherworldly and beautiful.

Again, criticism of the way the character arcs are written, which is fair enough, but should perhaps be levelled at the author that you don't like Sansa because you do not like the B&B inspiration for it.

I have many reasons. That's just one of my reasons for disliking SanSan.

I'd be surprised if Aegon even meets Sansa. People disregard geography and politics. Dany, Cersei and Margaery are all said to be extremely beautiful, and so were Catelyn Tully and Lyanna Stark.

It may or may not but still that trope is present in Sansa's arc.

[Elaena Targaryen]

TV tropes covers other genres though. I am speifically looking for a female character in Fantasy that is a major POV character characterised by the fact that her femininity is not seen as negative and who goes through major character development. In any non UA Fantasy I have so far come across absolutely zero of those, throughout twenty years. Hence I am interested in specifics for Fantasy since that is what is referenced here and that is what you, too, reference.

Tv tropes or classics are not really interesting in this case.

What about Malta? (from Robin Hobb's the Liveship Trader trilogy and the Rain Wild Chronicles) Malta starts ruff like Sansa but goes through character development.

[ARYa_Nym]

What about Malta? (from Robin Hobb's the Liveship Trader trilogy and the Rain Wild Chronicles) Malta starts ruff like Sansa but goes through character development.

Speaking of him I've been meaning to read Farseer but I've got a ton of other stuff I've been wanting to read so I don't know if I'll ever get to it.

There are some where the main characters seem feminine to me from the cover. Paranormalcy, Unearthly, etc. but I haven't actually read them yet.

The main character in The Gathering Storm is feminine but imo the author isn't talented. The characters are all flat and the story doesn't make much sense. I think that's my problem with Cassandra Clare too. I hate almost all of her characters except the two Herondales.

Maggie whatshername has kind of feminine characters. Blue from Raven Boys. I didn't get to read the Shiver series yet.

That witch series Hex Hall the main character is feminine. That's not a major focal point for the story except that she's a normal teenage girl who goes to dances and lets her friend put makeup on her.

As for no magic there's going to be a lot that's outside of fantasy. Delirium series and The Selection (which I dislike because of the love triangle). etc.

[Samsaptakas]

Corinn Akran from Acacia trilogy is quite like Sansa.

[manting]

I suppose Sansa is more immediately relatable to girls/women because she is very in tune with the social constructs that define "womanliness" both in Westeros and in modern society. It is much more likely that a girl/woman will have dreamed about a prince on a white horse, or loved pretty dresses and fancy parties than a guy simply because of how society still defines gender (to a certain extent). That being said, I love being a girl - for it to be socially acceptable for me to spend three hours deciding what to wear in the morning and to have ten different pairs of high-heeled boots - guys are totally missing out (but then you have ties - ties are amazing~ all those colors~ and patterns~ and I love how they arrange them in the boutiques).

On the other hand, I think Sansa is generally a difficult character for most readers to relate to because she's so nuanced. As the OP mentioned, she doesn't start the story as this otherworldly princess with dragons and a prophecy or a tomboy girl who always plays at swords with the boys - Sansa is just ... Sansa. She gossips with her girlfriends, she gets upset at her bratty baby sister, she lies, she has screwed up priorities, she's naive - and then she's put in a terrible situation that isn't normal or everyday at all, and careful readers begin to realize that, yes, Sansa is just another girl, but she has strength. And I think for a few of us (or at least myself), that strength is empowering - Sansa shows us that you don't need a sword (or a Needle) or dragons or an army or super powers to be strong. You can simply be a decent human being who continues to embrace decent human values and your own identity in the face of those who would rob you of them. Sansa may be gorgeous and high-born, but at her core, Sansa is just another human being. She doesn't meet a Faceless Man and go off on a journey to become a mystical assassin. She doesn't get dragons. Even her dire-wolf is dead. Yet despite all of these odds (and Sansa faces very steep odds in fantasyland) Sansa still manages to be strong and remain a daughter of Winterfell.

It just takes more careful reading and critical analysis to see Sansa's strength sometimes - she doesn't run around playing hero and shouting "I have dragons!" or "I have supahpowahz!" or "I'm a BAMF!" - she expresses the strength in small acts of rebellion, in these fundamentally normal, human ways :)

Thats the problem "I suppose Sansa is more immediately relatable to girls/women because she is very in tune with the social constructs that define "womanliness" both in Westeros and in modern society." She is a Kardashian, a Paris Hilton, - she is famous for her last name and her beauty. She has accomplished nothing. She has no talents. I will say that she has grown from a painfully innocent women-child who is naive to the point of stupidity to a somewhat astute women child who has had her naivete crushed out of her for the most part. This is mainly due to LF spoon feeding her the reality of the world they inhabit. I still find her character unlikeable due to her lack of agency.

I also surpirsed how many people say they like a character because they "relate" to them or are "like" them. I love Sandor but im nothing like him. Ive never had my face burned half off, or killed anyone, or raped anyone, or hit a little girl in the head with the flat of an axe. I find his character (and Jamie's as well) so enjoyable because of the moral depths he sinks to early in the series (Jamie with the tossing of Bran out the window and Sandor's butchery of the butchers boy) and the graduall climb out of the moral cesspool he started in.

Lastly I would think every person on here would find Tarly relateable b/c every last man jack (and women jack) of us on here is a fantast literature nerd at the very least.

[manting]

also how is it the entire stark family can discern that the Lannisters cannot be trusted except Sansa? Arya does early on, as does Ned, as do Jon, Robb, Caitlyn and Bran. Rickon is too young. So only Sansa trusts the Lannisters. This is AFTER she lies to her father and the king (after Geoffrey tries to severely injure her sister and Geoffrey's sworn shield kills a kid) about the incident and then her wolf is killed. She continues trusting and liking the Lannisters. Everyone can tell almost immediatley that Geoffrey is an awful shit but it takes Sansa forever to figure this out. She is the most Unstark of the Starks. Perhaps this is because she is the only one to outlive her wolf.

[Lala]

also how is it the entire stark family can discern that the Lannisters cannot be trusted except Sansa? Arya does early on, as does Ned, as do Jon, Robb, Caitlyn and Bran. Rickon is too young. So only Sansa trusts the Lannisters. This is AFTER she lies to her father and the king (after Geoffrey tries to severely injure her sister and Geoffrey's sworn shield kills a kid) about the incident and then her wolf is killed. She continues trusting and liking the Lannisters. Everyone can tell almost immediatley that Geoffrey is an awful shit but it takes Sansa forever to figure this out. She is the most Unstark of the Starks. Perhaps this is because she is the only one to outlive her wolf.

I usually try not to respond to certain posters but I do want to share my thoughts on this subject, because I think it presents an interesting analysis of Arya's persona specifically.

Why is Arya able to perceive the Lannister's with clarity more immediately than Sansa is - what about Arya specifically, as a character, makes her more perceptive (even than Ned, who still has illusions about Cersei's fundamental morality and feels immense pity for her as a "victim" of her marriage to Robert, hence the godswood scene)? I think the answer is because Arya does not fit in.

I don't mean this in a disparaging or "Arya the outcast" sense - I simply mean that Arya does not neatly jigsaw into the puzzle of the society of Westeros pre-Wo5K. I think every one of us can agree that Arya is not a stereotypical "lady" and is unlikely to ever become one - her strengths and interests do not conform to those necessary to being a "lady." Interestingly enough, Arya does exhibit some of the traits that are valued in "knights" - she believes in protecting the weak and a strict code of justice. Perhaps, in an alternate world, Arya could have become a Brienne. Unlike Brienne however, Arya lacks the physique and the family to have the path of a "knight" available to her - remember, Brienne had no brothers and is large of build, larger than most men, both of which are integral to her ability to break convention and become a "knight" - Arya does not benefit from these circumstances. Although Ned, allows Arya to learn swordplay, Arya, like Lyanna before her, is ultimately expected to conform to the typical path of a "lady."

Yet, what are the stories and songs of Westeros about? They are about knights and ladies, good kings and gentle queens. While there was the odd story about warrior-queens like Nymeria, most of these stories revolved around roles to which Arya could never aspire (and did not want to aspire to). The "fairy tale" world that the people of Westeros believe in or the "perfect society" they aspire to is a world in which Arya has no place. Arya begins her story as an outsider looking in - a stranger watching the brave knights and their fair ladies, almost like the readers ourselves. This allows her much greater clarity of vision than Sansa because she is not invested in the glamour of the songs and stories since Arya never had a reason to be invested in them. (She is, essentially, the Stranger)

On the other hand, Sansa conforms very well at the beginning of the series to the world that is painted in Old Nan's stories - in the classic world of chivalry and maidenhood, Sansa is a winner, she is the type of lady that is rescued by the prince and lives happily ever after. Because of this, Sansa is blind to the illusion because she is part of the illusion herself. It is hard to see the forest for the trees if you are one of the trees.

Consequently, I don't believe that, as readers, we can vilify Sansa for her illusions. She is as much a product of her circumstances as Arya is a product of hers - after all, don't many of us hold certain illusions or beliefs simply because we are invested in them? As a relatively intelligent student from a middle-class background who attends an elite university, I certainly believe in the "meritocratic" and relatively capitalist socio-economic structure of U.S. society. But, from the point of view of an individual who is not as sheltered as I am, my belief in this structure must appear ridiculous - I simply believe in it because I benefit from it.

[Woman of War]

Eh, speak for yourself. Arya is the "kind of kid one only finds in fantasy tales" insofar as you don't see many wargmaster baby assassins running around in real life, but mouthy, smart, tough, feisty tomboys who sucked at traditionally feminine pursuits, spoke their minds, and took no crap from anyone? I knew tons of girls like that growing up. You can't throw a rock in an Honours program without hitting an Arya. They might not have been as awesome as Arya, and they were more likely to graduate at the top of their class and go off to study computer engineering or something, but they were pretty badass, and they were plenty "relatable."

If you honestly believe that there are no girls like Arya--tough, clever, brave, outspoken, determined, etc.--in real life because you've never met any, then I kind of feel sorry for you, because 1) they exist and 2) they are awesome.

...And sadly, as for the Arya in later books, a traumatized lone wolf desensitized to killing, there are only too many children like that in real life (child soldiers, which GRRM has said in interviews paralleled Arya's experience, or words to that effect), although I would hope most ASOIAF readers wouldn't be able to relate to that aspect of her journey (as it would mean they had gone through some pretty hairy stuff).

I :agree: very much

I certainly pity the the poor abused girl Sansa and if she were a really existing person I would absolutely try to help her.

But in the books, sorry, she is so far the nice pretty girl next door, easy to relate to since she is not special at all. Everyone can be Sansa, she is meant to offer easy access into the story by precisely not being awesome.

[manting]

I don't mean this in a disparaging or "Arya the outcast" sense - I simply mean that Arya does not neatly jigsaw into the puzzle of the society of Westeros pre-Wo5K. I think every one of us can agree that Arya is not a stereotypical "lady" and is unlikely to ever become one - her strengths and interests do not conform to those necessary to being a "lady." Interestingly enough, Arya does exhibit some of the traits that are valued in "knights" - she believes in protecting the weak and a strict code of justice. Perhaps, in an alternate world, Arya could have become a Brienne. Unlike Brienne however, Arya lacks the physique and the family to have the path of a "knight" available to her - remember, Brienne had no brothers and is large of build, larger than most men, both of which are integral to her ability to break convention and become a "knight" - Arya does not benefit from these circumstances. Although Ned, allows Arya to learn swordplay, Arya, like Lyanna before her, is ultimately expected to conform to the typical path of a "lady."

Lyanna never "conformed" to a lady's path. We have no evidence of that. There are numerous women characters that defy the gender norms imposed upon them. Sansa does not. Perhaps that is why she is so unexciting. She is not a rebel - she is a conformer - she does as she is told. Nothing exciting about that.

Also I would say Maegery is the closest we get to a paralell to Sansa. Why is maegery so much smarter? They are very close in age. They had similar upbringing (both are the eldest daughter to one of the most powerful houses in the kingdom) and yet Sansa seems weak, inneffectual, and naive compared to Maegery. Sansa is the least accomplished of the Starks (except Rickon but he is like 7) and it has been that way the entire series. I hope there is little or no chapters covering her in WoW.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

I tend to avoid anything that has you liking a character for their gender, but with Sansa, that isn't the case for me. I find her an interesting insight into King's Landing and a strong character who develops over time, much like Jaime; another one of my favourite characters. ( I am not comparing the two, only that they change throughout the books. ) Arya, although amusing and an insight into some horrible stuff, is kind of the same as she's always being. ( In attitude that is! I do love her as a character. )

If we are to compare the two, Arya and Sansa, you'll note they are somewhat similar, they just use their talents differently. "Courtesy is a lady's armour." - or something along those lines, is what Sansa uses, it is what she knows and was taught. She was Cat's "little girl" and was not touched by the wolf as much as say, Arya. Does this make her weaker than Arya? No. It does not. As a male reader ( not that it matters! ) I see no shame in liking Sansa, but I don't like her because she's femanine. She acts how they 'expect' her to, as a form of defence. Now the little bird is ready to fly, in the Vale, where birds tend to be sigils! I love Sansa and she is an excellent character, but comparing Sansa to Arya is like comparing Stannis to Renly. Just because they're siblings, doesn't mean you should expect them to be alike.

As for the Lady incident and her "betraying" Ned. Eddard was a fool and so was Arya; it is a common trait in many Starks. Arya, because she has the wolf blood and Ned because he trusts too easily.