Rethinking Romance: Love Stories of ASOIAF

[Rose-Papillon]

Another Jaime/Brienne summary:

Jaime, on the way home from Harrenhal-

Jaime: *silently weeping*

Qyburn: Calm down, man.

Jaime: He's right, it's not like I was emotionally attached to the wench or anything and OH GOD WHY WON'T THESE PLATONIC TEARS STOP FALLING OUT OF MY FACE!?!

Jaime: DOCTOR, HELP, I'M EXPERIENCING EMPATHY, MAKE IT STOP!

Jaime: I don't know why I bother though. Now that her father's paid her ransom, I'm sure she's having the time of her life without me, laughing all the way to Tarth with all two of her perfect hands.

Qyburn: Yeah, I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Jaime: Pardon?

Qyburn: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I heard Locke say he was gonna kill her today cos like the sapphires were a lie or something?

Jaime: FUCK.

Jaime: DOUBLE FUCK.

Jaime: FUCK-A-DOODLE ASSCRACK.

Jaime: TURN THIS SHIP AROUND, I LEFT SOMETHING BEHIND!

Back at Harrenhal -

Jaime: Okay Jaime, calm down, I'm sure she's fine. I just have to...

Jaime: Oh fuck, calm, BRIENNE!

Jaime: BRIENNE, I NEED YOU!

Jaime: CAN YOU HEAR ME, BRIENNE?

Jaime: STOP IGNORING ME, BRIENNE!

Leaping into the bear pit -

Jaime: BRIENNE!!!

Jaime: Was that bear always there or?

Jaime: FUCK YOU BEAR, DON'T TOUCH MY BESTIE!

Jaime: NO, BUT LIKE, THAT'S AN ACTUAL BEAR.

Brienne: Jaime, it's been real, but I think this might be the end for us.

Jaime: The end for me perhaps, but not you! Get behind me!

Brienne: No, you get behind me!

Original post here

also

See part three here (this one doesn't really lend itself to a text-only post)

[sightofthesun]

snip

This is brilliant! It actually had me laughing out loud :P

[Punchslap]

I'm a little confused about whether this thread is officially started or not and which couple is being discussed.

I don't believe the thread has officially started. Great post by the way--I'm interested to see if there's text in the book that specifically addresses the assumptions you outlined.

[Le Cygne]

Yes, the thread has officially started.

We have two presentations going on at the same time: Arya/Gendry (booknerd2) and Jaime/Brienne (Rose-Papillon).

Please feel free to comment on either/both.

Rose-Papillon, those are so funny! :)

[DogLover]

I haven't had much time this weekend to read and comment, but I do want to quickly mention what a lovely treat it is to wake up and find yet another funny and entertaining essay/summary by booknerd2 and Rose-Papillon. It's made my morning coffee time so enjoyable.

[a free shadow]

Fun facts: Gendry is a corruption of "gentry", which means nobleborn/gentlefolk, effectively a perfect fit for a king's son corrupted-so to speak-with common blood. Arya is the feminine of Aryan, an Indian name that translates as noble.

Nice spotting :ninja:

Part 2: The Day the Bull was “Not-a-Lord-Zoned”

:lol:

steel song/water dance

Interesting idea.

And it was nice to see him laugh. Rare. He is usually pissed off too.

I never dwelled on that, great note. He never managed to make Arya laugh though. Maybe just yet :lol:

Yeah, let’s leave your world, your street for a moment. Forget dinner in a lady’s house. Let’s go to mine. “Lady Smallwood said there’s a smithy. Want to have a look?”

You write about things I just maybe sensed being there when reading myself, but did not put it into a complete thought :D Gendry is my favorite character, but I have missed many (coherent) insights, it looks :lol:

Yellow silk. Baratheon yellow/gold silk.

:lol: I managed to miss that, too.

Now to really read into it, reach and stretch some, oaks symbolize endurance, as if these two haven’t endured enough and yet still have so far to go. Also, it is connected to the Greek god, Zeus, who also has taken the form of a bull in myth.

I do not suggest it as a better interprettion, just as another one: Arya is called a death child. When a NW recruit died on the road, they burried him and thrown acorns into his grave for oaks to grow there. So acorns are another image connected to her and death also.

“Let the time go by I don’t care if I Can be here on the street where you live."

That convinced me for some reason :lol:

I still did not read your Parts 4 and 5, but I definitely will.

Rose-Papillon :lol:

[a free shadow]

Young, attractive, seductive, willing, and was Bella offering for free? I forgot.

You write this without re-reading! That is impressive :lol:

She is a lady. But it is okay to stab someone at Harrenhal. What she has had to do for them to survive, he takes in stride. I think she gives him strength. I am not sure he could have done half the things he’s had to do. They had to survive or die, and they all chose survival.

When you put things in great sentences, I care for it more :lol: You are writing awesomely.

She was sort of his security blanket on the road that gets pulled from him too early.

I think she was more his will-o'-the-whisp, guiding towards trouble, but also to the brighter horizons. Urging him on. I did not mean to get romntic-wordy in any way :pirate: I just disagreed with your comparision and tried to find a better one :P

He had hope, or took hope and gave it to himself irrationally.

I think Gendry is thorougly rational. But not calcculating. I think he took BwB on, because he was tired and it was his best bet at the end of one road, but not in any true hopes related to Arya. :ninja:

“She’s my sister.” Gendry had put a heavy hand on the old man’s shoulder, and squeezed. “Leave her be.”

When I was reading, I took it, that he stormed away just for one second and when immediately had to get back and keep watching out for her out of some spot. Because he was on the man right away.

Even she was surprised that he was that furious. He never complains about work, not having riches and stuff like that. Only now he complains he is “too lowborn” because she is highborn. Beginning with Ned, lords never impressed him.

Great undertone.

brutally in your face style sincere

That is the best description I have ever seen! :D Of anything. And it gets into this situation also :ninja:

A stupid bullheaded bastard, boy, she thinks to herself in anger. But she is sweet enough never to be so mad at him that she will call him that to his face. Arya is very intuitive with him

And she also went upstairs in The Peach, not picking up a fight. Maybe sensing it was all important to him. She is intuitive with veryone though! But less bound of sparing other people's feelings.

I am learning o this thread :D

[Booknerd2]

Thanks again Le Cygne and DogLover.

I had coffee first, and then read Rose-Papillon's latest installment.

And Thanks A Free Shadow! I have checked out Gendry/Arya threads when they have popped up, few and sporadic as they are before they die a quick death. I remembered seeing your posts before and I liked what you posted. The one about Loras and Brienne cracked me up.

Nice spotting :ninja:

I never dwelled on that, great note. He never managed to make Arya laugh though. Maybe just yet :lol:

I think he tried when he started to tickle her, but she didn't laugh. Well, he tried.

You write about things I just maybe sensed being there when reading myself, but did not put it into a complete thought :D Gendry is my favorite character, but I have missed many (coherent) insights, it looks :lol:

Arya and Gendry are top 5 for me. I wrote these essays for myself too for just what you mentioned. There were so many things that struck me or stood out, it was nice to have the opportunity to just get it all out and put it together. Usually a Gendry thread starts out okay, people do like him, but then its "He is stupid. He will never amount to anything. He is treating Arya badly..." and then they go nowhere. So it is hard to find a place to speculate.

Crap. I just messed it up. My responses are in bold.

[Booknerd2]

Well, this piqued my interest....

"I'm actually glad that someone else brings this up. Arya's list has some pretty bad names on there, but all Dunsen did was take Gendry's bull helm, and that's why she adds him to it. Sure, he's one of The Mountain's men and he's probably done some terrible things off-screen, but there are others she's encountered or heard about that have done much worse and should have put on her list instead (Rorge, Biter, Shagwell, Amory, Eggon, Talbot, Joss Stillwood). The fact that she continues to count him among the likes of Raff, Ser Meryn, Ser Ilyn and Cersei is puzzling. It's even more puzzling as to why G.R.R.M. continues to write her as doing so."

By Tyrus Madrux

And...

"I guess to Arya at that point - that as the biggest offense because she loved Gendry and Gendry loved that helm. I dont think she'll give up her list to the faceless men."

By AtomixIGN

I'm pretty much done with the essays for a while, but if I see anything that strikes me that hasn't been discussed yet, I will definitely share.

Also, there are a lot of threads popping up regading Gendy, Uncat, the future of the BWB, and the orphanage/what their agends is about trying to find Arya.

The interesting thread is called: "Who has the bull helmet?"

[DogLover]

Even though Arya/Gendry and Jaime/Brienne are still in progress with more to come, I'm going to post Asha/Qarl soon. There will be a noticeable change in tone as I'm not nearly as funny as booknerd2 and Rose-Papillon. :P

[DogLover]

Asha Greyjoy and Qarl the Maid: Scene-by-Scene Summary

The Kraken’s Daughter (Asha I): A Feast For Crows

After Asha leaves her nuncle, Rodrik Harlaw, she runs into Tristifer Botley, a former flame. Tristifer proclaims his love for Asha and asks her marry to him. Asha refuses and tells him to find another woman to quell his “ache.” Tristifer insists they are meant to be, always knowing she would be his wife and mother of his children. Asha places her dirk to his neck, threatening him. She leaves him while a drop of blood swells and drips down his neck.

The Iron Captain (Victarion I): A Feast for Crows

As the Ironborn gather for the kingsmoot at Old Wyk, Victarion notices Qarl the Maid playing the finger dance. After his opponent loses a finger, Asha whispers into Qarl’s ear, both laughing.

The Drowned Man (Aeron II): A Feast for Crows

During the kingsmoot, Erik the Anvil-Breaker makes his claim. Asha challenges him to rise, stating if he could, she would certainly follow him. Erik, making much effort, could not meet the challenge.

Soon, Asha makes her own claim, pushing past Victarion with her supporters: Qarl the Maid, Tristifer Botley, and Ser Harras Harlaw. After Asha offers her terms of peace with many men shouting her name in support, Euron steps forward with his terms. Qarl, one of Asha’s champions, shouts out to Euron, “If you liked the Shadow so well, go back there.”

The Wayward Bride (Asha II): A Dance with Dragons

Asha, having lost the kingsmoot, is at Deepwood Motte. Suffering from a headache and discouragement, Asha leaves her men for the former bedchamber of Galbart Glover. Qarl follows her and when they reach the bedchamber, Asha commands him to leave. Instead of leaving, Qarl refuses Asha’s orders insisting she wants him. Asha quickly succumbs to Qarl's forceful advances and loses herself in their lovemaking.

He pushed her hard back unto Glover’s bed, kissed her hard, and tore off her tunic to let her breasts spill out. When she tried to knee him in the groin, he twisted away and forced her legs apart with his knees. “I’ll have you now.”

“Do it,” she spat, “and I’ll kiss you in your sleep.”

She was sopping wet when he entered her.

After their lovemaking, Asha reminds herself that she needs to brew moon tea to prevent bringing another kraken into the world. She also reminds herself that she’s a married woman, “wedded and bedded…though not by the same man.”

While Qarl sleeps, Asha presses herself against him and wraps her arms around him, thinking back to when she first met him six or seven years ago and how he earned his moniker.

When Asha had first met him, Qarl had been trying to raise a beard. “Peach fuzz,” she had called it, laughing. Qarl confessed that he had never seen a peach, so she told him he must join her on her next voyage south.

“You see,” she’d said the first time she’d held one up against Qarl’s cheek. When she made him try a bite, the juice ran down his chin, and she had to kiss it clean.

That night they’d spend devouring peaches and each other, and by the time daylight returned Asha was sated and sticky and as happy as she’d ever been.

Even though it’s been at least three years since Asha enjoyed a peach, she thinks to herself that she still enjoys Qarl more, and even if the captains and kings might not want her, Qarl did.

Asha goes on to think about her past lovers, but recognizes that Qarl pleased her more than all the others combined.

She liked the feel of his smooth, soft skin beneath her fingers. She liked the way his long, straight hair brushed against her shoulders. She liked the way he kissed. She liked how he grinned when she brushed her thumbs across his nipples. The hair between his legs was a darker shade of sand than the hair on his head, but fine as down compared to the coarse black bush around her own sex. She liked that too. He had a swimmer’s body, long and lean, with not a scar upon him.

Asha notes that she would like to marry Qarl, but he is too lowborn, a grandson of a thrall. She goes on to perform oral sex while he sleeps, he wakes, and they make love again, climaxing together. Afterwards, Qarl calls Asha his “sweet queen” and Asha tells herself that she’ll never be queen.

Asha thinks about her wedding to Erik the Anvil-Breaker, which she heard about from Tristifer. Euron garnered Erik’s support by wedding him to Asha in a proxy marriage, with a seal standing in for her.

Leaving Qarl to his sleep, Asha goes to the kitchen for some food, and finds Tristifer, who calls her queen, telling her she will always rule his heart. Asha, exasperated, recognizes the sacrifice that Tristifer made for her by supporting her claim over Euron during the kingsmoot.

Tristifer again declares his love for Asha, which she spurns, suggesting Hagen’s daughter instead. Yet, Tristifer insists Asha is the only one for him and Asha bluntly tells him the feelings are not reciprocated. Tristifer also encourages Asha to leave Deepwood Motte before the northmen descend and put an end to them all, which Asha finds offensive because it implies she’s a coward.

“I do not love you,” she said bluntly, “and I do not run.”

Yet, Tristifer continues to encourage Asha to abandon Deepwood Motte and join him in starting another life together as traders. Asha asks if he means she, him, and Qarl. The mention of Qarl’s name makes Tristifer flinch. As Tristifer continues to try to persuade Asha to give up her claim as heir to the Seastone Chair, she notes that she’s starting to sober up and that Tristifer has that effect on her. Something Tris tells her about Torgon the Badbrother inspires Asha and she kisses Tris on the lips, making him flush. She then hears the war horn…

Asha assumes Deepwood Motte is under attack by wolves. She rallies her men and finds Qarl in the bailey waiting for her with her horse, helm, and throwing axes. Qarl, a common footsoldier, takes his place between Grimtogue and Lorren Longaxe, and they move out into the woods. Asha notices Hagen’s daughter stealing away with a man into the brush, and thinks, “Would that I could to the same. It would be sweet to lose herself in Qarl’s arms one last time.” Asha then thinks out loud of the letter sent to her by Ramsay Boltom: “A piece of prince…” Qarl overhears and responds that he would like a piece of her. Just at that moment, they fall under attack. Tristifer fights valiantly and Asha thinks she just may owe him a kiss or three before the night is done.

As the fighting continues, Asha finds herself fighting back-to-back with Qarl. A spear nearly impales the two together, and Asha contemplates that it’s “better that than die alone.”

At some point during the battle, Asha loses Qarl, Tris, and all of them.

The King’s Prize (Asha III): A Dance with Dragons

Asha, a captive of Stannis Baratheon, is shackled and riding in a baggage train. She recalls begging for the life of Qarl and Tristifer, and her other surviving men. Stannis allowed them to live, imprisoning them in the dungeons of Deepwood Motte. Justin Massey takes a liking to Asha, whom she prefers over Alysane Mormont, the She-Bear, yet, Asha realizes what Justin really wants is an advantageous marriage.

The Sacrifce (Asha IV): A Dance with Dragons

Asha, miserably stuck in a blizzard with Stannis, his men, and the northmen, witnesses men sacrificed to the flames as punishment for cannibalism. After the burnings, as Clayton Suggs threatens Asha with sacrificing her to the flames, Tristifer, Qarl, and the rest of her surviving men arrive as escort to the Braavosi banker, Tycho Nestoris.

Theon's Sample Chapter: The Winds of Winter

Theon is now held captive by Stannis. Hanging from a wall, he witnesses Stannis' interactions. Stannis dispatches Justin Massey to Braavos as Tycho Nestoris' escort and to hire sellswords. Justin asks if Asha could accompany him, a request Stannis' refuses. Justin then suggests marrying Asha. Stannis tells Justin that if he serves him well he can have what he desires but, until then, Asha must remain Stannis' prisoner.

Stannis summons Asha who arrives with Qarl and Tristifer in tow. Theon recognizes both of them and wonders why Asha brought her "pets." Stannis, annoyed by their presence, dismisses them. Asha begs for mercy for Theon—a quick beheading by the weirwood just as Ned Stark would have done.

[DogLover]

Analysis of Asha and Qarl. And Tristifer.

Lust, Love, and Marriage

Asha, the kickass “action girl” who embraces and excels at masculine pursuits, commanding her own ships and garnering the respect of men who are ingrained members of a patriarchal and misogynistic culture, is in love with pretty boy Qarl the Maid. Juxtapositions to each other, Asha is highborn, Qarl is lowborn; Asha gives orders, Qarl takes orders; Asha is dark, Qarl is fair. And then there’s Tristifer, the lord of nothing, a former fling of Asha’s who is convinced he and Asha are meant to be husband and wife, father and mother. Asha has little and less interest in Tristifer romantically, but realizes she has need of him.

Readers are first introduced to Qarl when he counts the ships while sailing toward Rodrik Harlaw’s castle, noting there are not nearly enough. And then again during the kingmoot as one of Asha’s most vocal champions. Victarion notices Asha whispering in his ear and the two laughing together as Qarl plays the finger dance, and Qarl, bold and brave, tells Euron to go back to the Shadow. However, it isn’t until a very erotic and sexually charged scene that a relationship between the two is confirmed. Asha, after spurning Tristifer, leaves to go to her room. On the way, Qarl stops her and "forces" himself on her while she protests. Asha, feeling the stress and pressure of her enemies descending upon her and her men, the outcome of the kingsmoot, the discovery of Theon's fate, and the thought of her own marriage, quickly succumbs and is sexually excited by the rape fantasy role-play where Qarl, the lowborn foot soldier accustomed to taking orders, now acts as if he's in charge.

She forgot Moat Caitlin and Ramsay Bolton and his little piece of skin, forgot the kingsmoot, forgot her failure, forgot her exile and her enemies and her husband.

During sex, Qarl uses a dagger to undo Asha’s jerkin, a clear phallic symbol. He also disarms her of her axe, the same axe Asha just told Tristifer she had many men with.

I have touched more men than I can count. Some with my lips, more with my axe.

Whereas the dagger is a phallic symbol, an axe, Asha's preferred weapon of choice, represents the feminine in Minoan goddess folklore—a part of the axe symbolizing female genitalia. In dream analysis, an axe in a woman's dream symbolizes she'll find a worthy lover, but he will not possess much wealth. Asha most definitely considers Qarl, the grandson of a thrall and common foot soldier, a worthy lover. "Battle axe" is also a derogatory term for an assertive and determined woman, which Asha certainly is.

After Asha and Qarl make love, Asha dreamily recalls when she first met Qarl and teased him about his smooth skin, comparing his face to a peach.

When Asha had first met him, Qarl had been trying to raise a beard. "Peach fuzz," she had called it.

Peaches are symbolic of sexual desire and pleasure, and the sensual description of devouring peaches and each other is blatant, as Asha is not only sated and sticky from the consumption of peaches, but from Qarl, as well.

That night they'd spent devouring peaches and each other, and by the time daylight returned Asha was sated and sticky and as happy as she had ever been.

In the first sex scene, Qarl is the one who initiates sex and role plays a rapist, however, the second time they make love, Asha takes the initiative and mounts him.

Drunk, smiling, she crawled beneath the furs and took him in her mouth. Qarl stirred in his sleep, and after a moment he began to stiffen. By the time she had him hard again, he was awake and she was wet. Asha draped the furs across her bare shoulders and mounted him, drawing him so deep inside her that she could not tell who had the cock and who had the cunt. This time the two of them reached their peak together.

Asha has recently found out she's been wedded in a proxy marriage to Erik the Anvil-Breaker, a marriage arranged by her uncle Euron who had a seal stand in her stead. Asha's forced marriage is reminiscent of Orkney Island folklore about the Selkies (seal people), a skin-changing race that shape shifts between seal and human. Selkies were able to transform into beautiful humans when they cast off their sealskin when on land, but if their sealskin was lost or stolen, they weren't able to return to the sea as a seal. Many of the tales are romantic tragedies about human men stealing a beautiful female Selkie's sealskin so she can't return to the sea, her true home, and she’s forced into marrying her captor. Not only has Asha been forced into a marriage with a seal representing her, but she is now unable to go back to her home for fear she'll fall into the hands of Euron and her unwanted husband, whose pride she wounded at the kingsmoot.

After being informed of her sham marriage in which she played no part, Asha thinks that she would like to marry Qarl, but he's too lowborn. Asha, a strong woman who has bucked social convention and seemingly lives life on her own terms finds herself constrained by certain social and political expectations. Yet, this shouldn’t take readers by surprise since Asha is extremely ambitious and politically astute, just as disciplined as she is free-spirited. While she may thumb her nose at certain aspects of the culture in which she was raised, she understands her obligations as Lord Balon's daughter and is not going to undermine her goal of winning the Seastone Chair.

A shy smile, strong arms, clever fingers, and two sure swords. What more could any woman want? She would have married Qarl, and gladly, but she was Lord Balon's daughter and he was common-born, the grandson of a thrall.

Tristifer, a former fling from Asha's past, is also in love with Asha and insists he and Asha were meant to wed. Asha bluntly tells him his feelings are not returned and wearily thinks that Tristifer has a sobering effect on her. Where Qarl represents escape, pleasure, and adventure, Tristifer represents harsh reality, as well as a life of the mundane. When Tristifer first falls in love with her and tells Asha she’ll bear him a dozen children, appalled, she informs him that it's adventures she wants, not motherhood. But both Qarl and Tristifer refer to Asha as their queen, and it’s the Seastone Chair that Asha seeks, yet there’s no adventure or glamor in ruling. After all, Robert, Joffrey, and Daenerys all found ruling a tedious affair. Robert escaped ruling by going on adventures. Joffrey, when he grew bored, entertained himself by making twisted decisions that satisfied his sociopathic tendencies. And Daenerys daydreamed of Daario. But if Asha does attain her goal, she has the discipline and sense of duty to rule and do it well.

When Tristifer approaches Asha for the first time since their childhood, he's wearing a sealskin cloak and Asha thinks his eyes resemble seal eyes.

Tristifer Botley had filled out since last she'd seen him, but he had the same unruly hair that she remembered, and eyes as large and trusting as a seal's. Sweet eyes, truly.

Tristifer, a lord now, doesn't give up easily, and continues to profess his love for Asha, which Asha finds tiresome. However, the seal as Asha’s proxy, the (sealskin) cloak symbolizing marriage, as the cloak is the Westerosi version of the wedding ring, the obstacle of Qarl’s social status to the possibility of marriage, and Tristifer's relenting instance that they are meant to be and his representation of the sobering effects of reality potentially foreshadows a union between the two.

Soon Asha and her men are on the run, trying to escape their enemies who have made their way to Deepwood Motte. When Asha notices Hagen's daughter stealing away with one of her men she thinks, "Would that I could do the same. It would be sweet to lose herself in Qarl's arms one last time." So, again, Qarl represents a form of escape for Asha, but the disciplined daughter of Balon Greyjoy places duty first. Later, when engaged in combat, she and Qarl fight back-to-back. When a spear almost impales them both together she reflects that she would rather die a gruesome death with Qarl than die alone.

The battle ends with Asha knocked unconscious. She wakes to find she's been taken prisoner by Stannis. Qarl, Tristifer, and seven others survived, and Asha begs for their lives. Stannis acquiesces and they are left at Deepwood Motte in a dungeon while Asha, as a highborn captive, marches with Stannis to Winterfell. She doesn’t see Tristifer and Qarl again until the very end of her last POV chapter, “The Sacrifce.”

Conception

There is some foreshadowing and symbolism indicating that Asha is pregnant with Qarl’s child. The phrase “spent his seed inside her womb” is an interesting choice of words considering the rest of the language used to describe sex in that particular scene is rather crude with “cunt” and “cock” used liberally.

Asha's preferred weapon, the axe, also symbolizes creation and female genitalia, as well as destruction, as the axe was not only used as a weapon, but as a tool for harvest. Other interesting language usage is Asha’s reference to her dirks as "suckling babes.”

Not only is Asha denied the opportunity to brew moon tea, but when she ruminates bringing another kraken into the world, she thinks that it would make no matter.

She would need to brew some moon tea or risk bringing another kraken into the world. What does it matter? My father’s dead, my mother is dying, my brother’s being flayed, and there’s naught that I can do about any of it. And I’m married. Wedded and bedded…thought not by the same man.

Death

Death is looming over Asha's head. Whether it’s hers, Qarl’s, Theon’s, or the death of all she has desired, the symbolism and foreshadowing in her POVs is dark.

In ASoIaF, peaches symbolize sexual desire, but they can also symbolize death. As Asha recalls devouring peaches with Qarl, the writing is very descriptive. Does this foreshadow Asha's death? Qarl's? Or does the sensual scene symbolize a doomed relationship? Qarl's face is described as “peach fuzz” and juice runs down his chin as Asha licks it off—possible foreshadowing that Qarl is the doomed lover.

However, in addition to Asha's association with peaches, her final POV chapter in A Dance with Dragons is ominously titled "The Sacrifice." GRRM only titles POVs after the character's name or uses a title that specifically describes the POV character—"The Kraken's Daughter", "The Wayward Bride", etc… Since Asha was not sacrificed in that chapter, this would be the first time out of five books that GRRM titled a chapter that described certain events rather than the POV character. Very unusual, leading the reader to question Asha’s fate. Will Asha be a sacrifice? Or will she be forced to make a sacrifice? Perhap for Qarl? Theon? The fate of her people?

Asha, examining a weirwood tree, is convinced that the sap coming from an ancient weirwood tree is actually blood.

From one such island rose a weirwood gnarled and ancient, its bole and branches white as the surrounding snows. Eight days ago Asha had walked out with Aly Mormolnt to have a closer look at its slitted red eyes and bloody mouth. It is only sap, she'd told herself, the red sap the flows inside these weirwoods. But her eyes were unconvinced; seeing was believing, and what they saw was frozen blood.

"The Sacrifice" initially refers to the men Stannis sacrifices to R'hllor, however, this encounter with the weirwood foreshadows a sacrifice to the Old Gods. It has been theorized on this forum that Asha will be sacrificed by Bloodraven for Jon Snow's life.[1] In addition to the snow imagery with Stannis, his men, and Asha stuck in a blizzard day after endless day, Asha, right after her last time making love to Qarl, rises from bed, looks out the window and takes in the clear night.

The moon was almost full, the night so clear that she could see the mountains, their peaks crowned with snow.

The way this is written suggests Asha just might play a significant role in Jon Snow's fate, again, possibly as a sacrifice.

Asha’s uncle, Rodrik Harlaw, also has dark words for her.

“Crows will fight over a dead man’s flesh and kill each other for his eyes.” Lord Rodrik stared across the sea, watching the play of moonlight on the waves. “We had one king, then five. Now all I see are crows, squabbling over the corpse of Westeros.”

“I can protect myself. Nuncle, I am a kraken. Asha, of House Greyjoy.” She pushed to her feet. “It’s my father’s seat I want, not yours. Those scythes of yours look perilous. One could fall and slice my head off. No, I’ll sit the Seastone Chair.”

Then you are just another crow, screaming for the carrion.”

Qarl and Tristifer are back on scene at the end of "The Sacrifice." Asha has already recognized she can't marry Qarl, but as already discussed, there's been some foreshadowing that she may end up marrying Tristifer. However, after reflecting on her situation, feeling all is lost due to her defeats, will she sacrifice all she’s fought for for Qarl? Or will she sacrifice her love for Qarl for a political move that just might benefit the Ironborn? She's already noted that Tristifer has surprised her in battle and just might be worthy. Or will her life be cut short?

The Winds of Winter sample chapter

Asha, Qarl, and Tristifer all enter the tower where Theon is chained, hanging from a wall. Stannis has already stated that the freed Ironborn are going to fight for him, yet Asha still remains a prisoner. Stannis has already agreed to marry Asha to Justin if Justin's mission is successful. After Qarl and Tristifer are quickly dismissed by Stannis, Asha asks Stannis to mercifully put an end to Theon's life by beheading him in front of the wierwood tree. The ravens then caw "the tree, the tree, the tree" and "Theon, Theon, Theon." This again foreshadows a sacrifice before the weirwood—the spilling of blood. But will it be Theon's blood?

[1] A nod to Fire Eater: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79226-asha-greyjoys-fate/page__st__40#entry4289970

[DogLover]

At least two short essays to follow soon.

[Booknerd2]

Great work! DogLover

I have never seen these three tackled before. My problem is that there is so much going on in ASOIAF that I go off and do research, check threads, try to gauge things people noticed and reactions, and then move on to the next millionth thing.

You breathed life into this love triangle, and made for me what was a very 2-D thing much more 3-D. I will always be quicker with Arya/Gendry and note Sansa/Sandor things more because they are my two favorites.

I did not notice nearly any of the themes you delved into with the three, so this was a really great read for me. My perception before your post was:

1. Ok, Asha is really diggin’ Qarl.

2. Tristofer did make me cringe and love him because he is so devoted to her. And it sort of ended there.

And you presented both guys and the situation truly as it is. I can now tell you that I don’t know who I would like to see her with. And I think there are pluses and minuses with both with the much fuller, enriching picture that you gave.

Now, I am lost with Qarl. Sexually compatible for sure, but I remember even while reading their scenes for the first time, how I am not sure what he really wants from her. Is it love? Just lust? Any ambitions to be Mr. Asha Greyjoy? They are not background compatible but that never stopped a love interest from hoping either…..She certainly gives it a thought, even while thinking it can not be.

Tristofer is rough too. Part of me is giving him points because he apparently loves her and there is history there…but I am not sure the personalities mesh. He doesn’t seem to get her. He is trying to fit her into the marriage and baby box. He is out there. Delusional, and though he loves her, it still seems, sadly, that it is all about what he wants, what he wants her to be… Let’s run off and become traders and elope….But then he does go along with all of her plans, backs her up in the face of doubt, danger, and death. And I did have a slight nudge in the stomach, (there is no evidence I can see anyway) very slight that he might be laying it on thick and if the in-love bubble burst down the road, he could be trouble. But that might be my series paranoia in high gear. That is just an unexplainable feel.

I read your interpretation of themes and thought they were great. Totally did not pick up on some of them, but wasn’t looking either. I tend to have tunnel vision and see things more clearly with my two favorite pairings, or see more stuff anyway.

Of death: I think she loses one of her boys. Maybe not both, maybe not the one she would have preferred or thought at the time it happens, but maybe one.

[DogLover]

Great work! DogLover

Thanks! High praise coming from you. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I have never seen these three tackled before. My problem is that there is so much going on in ASOIAF that I go off and do research, check threads, try to gauge things people noticed and reactions, and then move on to the next millionth thing.

You breathed life into this love triangle, and made for me what was a very 2-D thing much more 3-D. I will always be quicker with Arya/Gendry and note Sansa/Sandor things more because they are my two favorites.

I did not notice nearly any of the themes you delved into with the three, so this was a really great read for me. My perception before your post was:

1. Ok, Asha is really diggin’ Qarl.

2. Tristofer did make me cringe and love him because he is so devoted to her. And it sort of ended there.

And you presented both guys and the situation truly as it is. I can now tell you that I don’t know who I would like to see her with. And I think there are pluses and minuses with both with the much fuller, enriching picture that you gave.

I initially didn't catch the details of Asha's relationship with Tristifer either, not until I reread Asha's POVs specifically for this project. I was far too interested in Asha's relationship with Qarl and found Tristifer kind of boring. Ideally, I would love for Asha to be able to marry Qarl, which is who she wants, but being that this is Westeros and the world of GRRM, that probably isn't going to happen.

Now, I am lost with Qarl. Sexually compatible for sure, but I remember even while reading their scenes for the first time, how I am not sure what he really wants from her. Is it love? Just lust? Any ambitions to be Mr. Asha Greyjoy? They are not background compatible but that never stopped a love interest from hoping either…..She certainly gives it a thought, even while thinking it can not be.

Even though their love scenes are so passionate and steamy, there are some tender moments that indicate Qarl truly loves Asha. He murmurs "my sweet lady" and "my sweet queen" right after they make love. They've also been together for about seven years, which speaks to more than just lust. At least I think so. Qarl fervently supports Asha's claim and even shouted at Euron to leave during the kingsmoot, which is quite brave. Also, thick Vic even notices their whispers and shared laughter. I certainly want to know more about what Qarl thinks of the situation and my questions are the same. Does he think there's hope to be Mr. Asha Greyjoy? Is he simply content enjoying the relationship for as long as he can? As we discussed in an earlier Arya/Gendry post, civil war completely changes society. If Asha ever accomplishes her goal, she could reward Qarl with lands and a title, elevating him in social status.

Tristofer is rough too. Part of me is giving him points because he apparently loves her and there is history there…but I am not sure the personalities mesh. He doesn’t seem to get her. He is trying to fit her into the marriage and baby box. He is out there. Delusional, and though he loves her, it still seems, sadly, that it is all about what he wants, what he wants her to be… Let’s run off and become traders and elope….But then he does go along with all of her plans, backs her up in the face of doubt, danger, and death. And I did have a slight nudge in the stomach, (there is no evidence I can see anyway) very slight that he might be laying it on thick and if the in-love bubble burst down the road, he could be trouble. But that might be my series paranoia in high gear. That is just an unexplainable feel.

I do think Tristifer represents Asha's pragmatic side, but since it's adventure she craves, I don't think she would ever find true happiness with him. And you're right, he doesn't get her, at least not her free-spirited, adventurous side. If they do end up together, Asha will be settling and doing it out of a sense of duty.

I read your interpretation of themes and thought they were great. Totally did not pick up on some of them, but wasn’t looking either. I tend to have tunnel vision and see things more clearly with my two favorite pairings, or see more stuff anyway.

Of death: I think she loses one of her boys. Maybe not both, maybe not the one she would have preferred or thought at the time it happens, but maybe one.

At least one of the three will die and the more I think about it, the more I think it will be Asha. :crying:

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

I agree that Qarl is doomed. That was always my impression.

That was a great catch about the mountains peaked with snow. The one ship that I really fangirl for is Asha-Jon. Hopefully the sacrifice is Theon, who needs to redeem himself to the Starks/the north instead of Asha.

In my fantasy land, towards the end of the series Jon becomes KITN. He and Asha form a marriage alliance to bring peace between the Iron Islands and the North. Victarion and Euron are dead so they can't interfere. Not only does the marriage work politically, they would also be well suited for each other. Asha is tough, no nonsense and assertive just like Ygritte and Val. Jon would definitely find her attractive. Jon is a decent guy, but sort of taciturn, unlike the sappy Tristifer she is so annoyed with. Also, we all know that Jon is...shall we say giving?

If Asha is indeed pregnant with child of the probably doomed Qarl, this confirms my ship even more. Jon can raise this bastard child in a compassionate way. He knows what it's like to be a bastard after all.

Am I delusional, or has this occurred to others?

[DogLover]

I agree that Qarl is doomed. That was always my impression.

That was a great catch about the mountains peaked with snow. The one ship that I really fangirl for is Asha-Jon. Hopefully the sacrifice is Theon, who needs to redeem himself to the Starks/the north instead of Asha.

In my fantasy land, towards the end of the series Jon becomes KITN. He and Asha form a marriage alliance to bring peace between the Iron Islands and the North. Victarion and Euron are dead so they can't interfere. Not only does the marriage work politically, they would also be well suited for each other. Asha is tough, no nonsense and assertive just like Ygritte and Val. Jon would definitely find her attractive. Jon is a decent guy, but sort of taciturn, unlike the sappy Tristifer she is so annoyed with. Also, we all know that Jon is...shall we say giving?

If Asha is indeed pregnant with child of the probably doomed Qarl, this confirms my ship even more. Jon can raise this bastard child in a compassionate way. He knows what it's like to be a bastard after all.

Am I delusional, or has this occurred to others?

Honestly, I have never even considered an Asha/Jon alliance. You raise some good points and it's certainly possible. Also, I have to admit, I kind of love the Asha/Stannis crackpot ship.

[Tyrus Martell]

Well, this piqued my interest....

"I'm actually glad that someone else brings this up. Arya's list has some pretty bad names on there, but all Dunsen did was take Gendry's bull helm, and that's why she adds him to it. Sure, he's one of The Mountain's men and he's probably done some terrible things off-screen, but there are others she's encountered or heard about that have done much worse and should have put on her list instead (Rorge, Biter, Shagwell, Amory, Eggon, Talbot, Joss Stillwood). The fact that she continues to count him among the likes of Raff, Ser Meryn, Ser Ilyn and Cersei is puzzling. It's even more puzzling as to why G.R.R.M. continues to write her as doing so."

By Tyrus Madrux

The interesting thread is called: "Who has the bull helmet?"

Haha glad you found my opinion interesting. What do you reckon about the whole situation?

There are some really interesting essay analysis' here. I might have to join in!

[Rose-Papillon]

Here's another Jaime and Brienne summary.

If Jaime ever attempted to explain his dream to Brienne, this is how I would make fun of it (note: this is actually a somewhat accurate description of the dream):

Brienne: Ser Jaime? I am grateful but, you were well away. Why come back?

Jaime: I HAD A WET DREAM ABOUT YOU... I mean I DREAMED OF YOU.

Brienne: ... what?

Jaime: Well, let me explain. So, I had this dream, and you were there, an dI was there... and we were both naked...

Brienne: ... okay

Jaime: ... and my sister was there.

Brienne: Oh god.

Jaime: Come to think of it, Ser Arthur Dayne was there as well...

Brienne: Stop.

Jaime: I'm not explaining this right, am I?

Brienne: So, when you said that this was a "wet" dream...?

Jaime: I MEAN THAT THERE WAS WATER IN THE DREAM BRIENNE, OMG!

Brienne: ... and when you say that we were naked, were we th eonly ones, or... ?

Jaime: No, we were the only ones that were naked.

Jaime: Huh... come to think of it, that is kinda weird.

Brienne: Okay, well, I'm going to do my best to forget that this conversation ever happened.

Jaime: Yeah... okay...

Original post here.

[Booknerd2]

Haha glad you found my opinion interesting. What do you reckon about the whole situation?

There are some really interesting essay analysis' here. I might have to join in!

The post stopped me in my tracks. I did NOT pick up on that. I am just so used to Arya and the frequent recitation/repetition of the people on her "who to ice next list" that there is no way that occurred to me.

Yeah, definitely post! :cheers: Your post was excellent and well-worded. It was just a shock in a good way because I love Arya/Gendry and now I am going to have to read that part again and take a closer look/remind myself of the misdeeds of the others on her list compared to Dunsen.