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ramajama

a few things of storm of swords i don't understand

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following the battle of black water bey Why are'nt the lannisters and tyrells attacking stormsend. why are they not pursuing stannis since he's in such a weak position with all his army destroyed.

when stannis uses gendrys blood and throws the leeches in the flames, why does he waste his wishes on robb stark and balon grey joy, people who are not a direct threat to him, he could have used the same wishes to take out tywin/cersei/mace tyrell.

when stannis comes to save the nights watch he tells jon that he can make him lord of winterfell, after the battle the reader doesn't really find out if jon has heard the news that his brother robb is dead, in the chapter we just see jon contemplate whether or not to take stannis offer, its quite fustrating we never able to see jons reaction to the red wedding.

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1. I'm not quite sure on this, I think they were more worried about Robb at that point then Stannis. All Stannis was doing after the Blackwater was being remorseful and sitting in shame. He posed no threat, while Robb on the other hand was actively attacking the Lannisters.

2. He wanted to take out as many False Kings as possible.

3. I have no idea why Martin didn't write in Jon's reaction, but I wasn't overly disappointed. ASOS was stuffed with great moments, I was fine that another potential one was left to the reader's imagination.

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They knew Robb was more of a threat than Stannis. After Black Water, Stannis' army was reduced to around 3500 hundred and the Lanisters knew he was weak and unable to cause a threat to them. It was Davos, who saw where Stannis needed to go.

I wanted to point out an mistake you made and Mel leeched Edric Storm's blood and not Gendry. (In the show they used Gendry's blood, but in the books Mel does not know about Gendry yet). Stannis was trying to rid of the false kings and thus he stated Robb, Joffrey, and Balon. Mace, Cersei, and Tywin are not kings and Stannis would not know they are the ones behind most things.

Jon found out about the Red Wedding or of his brother's Robb's death through Aemon and his friends after he awoke. Stannis knew he would not hold his seat much longer and needed the North to rally to his side. For that he needed a Stark and only had Jon. His proposal came with a to high of a stipulation and glad Jon did not take it.

Basically, Stannis is being warped by Melisandre and his own ideals that things should come to him because it is his right. Davos tries to help Stannis see things but Stannis is too stubborn.

You kind of get Jon's perspective of the loss of his brother and his guilt for even thinking about taking Stannis' offer when Jon reflects on the game he and Robb played as kids.

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There is something I don´t understand. I'm not watching the show, but a friend of mine is and we had this discussion

Stannis uses Gendry's blood??? Does he use leeches?

Because in the books, Gendry is miles away from Stannis. How does the TV show comes up to that?

Does Edric does not exist in the show?

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following the battle of black water bey Why are'nt the lannisters and tyrells attacking stormsend. why are they not pursuing stannis since he's in such a weak position with all his army destroyed.

They will.

when stannis uses gendrys blood and throws the leeches in the flames, why does he waste his wishes on robb stark and balon grey joy, people who are not a direct threat to him, he could have used the same wishes to take out tywin/cersei/mace tyrell.

They were direct threats to him. Joffrey claims to be the king, and the other two have seceded. If he kills the 3 you mentioned, Joffrey is still king, while the North and the Iron Islands still have their own kings.

when stannis comes to save the nights watch he tells jon that he can make him lord of winterfell, after the battle the reader doesn't really find out if jon has heard the news that his brother robb is dead, in the chapter we just see jon contemplate whether or not to take stannis offer, its quite fustrating we never able to see jons reaction to the red wedding.

Jon knows. He tells Stannis that Winterfell belongs to Sansa.

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There is something I don´t understand. I'm not watching the show, but a friend of mine is and we had this discussion

Stannis uses Gendry's blood??? Does he use leeches?

Because in the books, Gendry is miles away from Stannis. How does the TV show comes up to that?

Does Edric does not exist in the show?

Edric does not exist in the show at all its all About Gendry Getting leeched

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following the battle of black water bey Why are'nt the lannisters and tyrells attacking stormsend. why are they not pursuing stannis since he's in such a weak position with all his army destroyed.

when stannis uses gendrys blood and throws the leeches in the flames, why does he waste his wishes on robb stark and balon grey joy, people who are not a direct threat to him, he could have used the same wishes to take out tywin/cersei/mace tyrell.

when stannis comes to save the nights watch he tells jon that he can make him lord of winterfell, after the battle the reader doesn't really find out if jon has heard the news that his brother robb is dead, in the chapter we just see jon contemplate whether or not to take stannis offer, its quite fustrating we never able to see jons reaction to the red wedding.

Does this actually happen in the books? I think it's only in the tv series. IIRC it's Edric's blood Mel uses for the ritual

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From what I understand, the Others are the major threat. Although dead, an Other might have memories of his life or thoughts.... where a wight is like an Other lemming. Wights are like dumb, slow, stupid and have no thought processes or memories.

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Others aren't undead men. They are something we don't know, but undead men are wights. The zombielike ones, not the shaky armour/icy sword/creaky noise fast dudes who kill Royce and of which Samwell kills one.


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What is the difference between Wight and the Others. I have seen them used together.

Martin described Others as beings somehow similar to Sidhe, humanoid, beautiful but totally alien.

They are alive. And made of ice apparently.

Wights are dead bodies of men (or animals) brought undead through Others mojo.

Waymar Royce in the Prologue of GoT was slain by Others and rised as wight.

Wight attacked Mormont in his cell.

Sam slayed real Other.

I think that Others versus Children of Forest can be some allusion to legendary Courts of Winter and Summer, but maybe that's just DF fan talking through me.

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From what I understand the 'Others' is a general term used throughout Westeros for the otherworldly things that lies beyond the wall.. So far we've seen two variants, the Wights, which Jon Snow killed.. which are the animated corpses of anyone who dies beyond the wall (where the gods have no power..) and can be killed by fire.. and the White Walkers, one of the things that Sam Tarly killed which are killed with Dragonglass (or Obsidian). A lot of people refer to the White Walkers as Others too I think.

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Am, nope. Others are Others. White Walkers. Cold beings hating everything with pint of warm blood in their veins.
Wights are corpses rised by Others mojo. They are clearly different from their masters.

Others is the main name. White Walkers is more like a nick name, although it was taken as a main by TV, because they thought Others would be confusing name. Damn their wits!

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From what I understand the 'Others' is a general term used throughout Westeros for the otherworldly things that lies beyond the wall.. So far we've seen two variants, the Wights, which Jon Snow killed.. which are the animated corpses of anyone who dies beyond the wall (where the gods have no power..) and can be killed by fire.. and the White Walkers, one of the things that Sam Tarly killed which are killed with Dragonglass (or Obsidian). A lot of people refer to the White Walkers as Others too I think.

You're getting it wrong.

The book explicitly differs the Others from wights, and only a few times has any character in the book series referred to the former as White Walkers; nevertheless, these two are synonyms, and wights are essentially zombies.

About the "gods have no power" part, I think beyond-the-Wall is exactly where the gods have the most power of all. You can see there is far more incidence of warg powers and generally supernatural stuff: giants, direwolves, Others, mammoths, and even more stuff you'll see later. It's GRRM's inner Tolkien flourishing beyond ancient ice and magic.

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"Others" I think refers to White Walkers and "wights" are those dead by the hands of White Walkers or other wights, basically zombies. They are clumsy and do not think while White Walkers are graceful and quick.


Dragonglass can kill a White Walker but not a wight whereas fire can kill a wight but not a White Walker.


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"Others" I think refers to White Walkers and "wights" are those dead by the hands of White Walkers or other wights, basically zombies.

Nope. The Others are official name of evil winter elfs species, the white walkers are only one of their nicknames.

White Walkers is official term in TV-series because stupid producers decided that people watching TV are too stupid to get such simple name as The Others.

Dragonglass can kill a White Walker but not a wight whereas fire can kill a wight but not a White Walker.

We have no bloody idea what dragonglass can do to wight, or fire against The Other. Because we didn't see that happening. There are one scene when they're trying to use torchwood against the Other but he's too quick for them to properly burn him.

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What is the difference between Wight and the Others. I have seen them used together.

Think about it this way. The wights are like zombies. They're dangerous, but can easily be destroyed by fire. The Others however are more than that. I recall them being described as "demons" toward the end of ASoS. I think of them as the magic undead. They have some semblance of intelligence and they are the hardest thing to kill in the Seven Kingdoms (I think so anyway).

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Nope. The Others are official name of evil winter elfs species, the white walkers are only one of their nicknames.

White Walkers is official term in TV-series because stupid producers decided that people watching TV are too stupid to get such simple name as The Others.

We have no bloody idea what dragonglass can do to wight, or fire against The Other. Because we didn't see that happening. There are one scene when they're trying to use torchwood against the Other but he's too quick for them to properly burn him.

They hardly have an "official name", do they? It's not like they call themselves "Others". Most people in Westeros think they've been gone for thousands of years, and "The Others" is used in curses; it's probably how they were referred to in old history books and how Old Nan refers to them (while Bran knows the name "White Walkers"), but that would just mean it's a very old nickname. And "the Others" is the most generic nickname one can come up with.

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