Tyrion's prowess in battle is one of the more ridiculous things in all of ASOIAF

[WastingSickness]

I am not even sure if reply is serious or not. Safe to say a trained guard would be much faster, stronger and fitter. He should have no problem catching Bran. Martin just gets carried away with his favourite characters like Arya and Tyrion and realism goes out of the window.

Climbing is about the ratio of mass to surface area, which works in Bran's favor. Even though the Winterfell guards are much bigger, the surface area supporting them during a climb is roughly equivalent. Sure, strenght comes into it, but so does climbing experience. It's not a sure thing, but it is possible Bran could elude them.

[Djinn]

Tyrion shortcomings in reach, weight, height are not a big problem. Being average or less then average in these is not important, being above(like Gregor) is the only thing that matters. Daenerys, Arya, Cersei or Sansa could easily do the same as him. If fact, Tyrion contradicts most of the arguments about why most women being at disadvantage against men in close combat. Or it's plot armor.

[kiasyd]

If Trant surely and easily beats Syrio, of course Tyrion can slaughter some soldiers in a few skirmishes... Why not?

:leaving:

[2fingers]

I didn't mind the BS at all. I thought it was cool that Tyrion in the book was a strong leader and a good fighter. And it made sense then that Tywin forced him to fight unlike the TV version of Tywin who forced his regular dwarf son to go out in the battlefield...that is a version of kinslaying lol. TV version of Tyrion has to bring down the absurd element of a dwarf going to battle.

Dwarfs don't have the speed of a child, the mobility/agility, sense of balance or the appropriate arm reach as a child their height. The strength factor varies and since I see TV Tyrion carry and swing an axe and a shield just fine, it is kind of believable that he is able to choke Shae to death with the help of a golden necklace...well not really but I'm sure the TV show will adjust.

Shae will probably get shot by the crossbow.

[Winter's Knight]

Tyrion shortcomings in reach, weight, height are not a big problem. Being average or less then average in these is not important, being above(like Gregor) is the only thing that matters. Daenerys, Arya, Cersei or Sansa could easily do the same as him. If fact, Tyrion contradicts most of the arguments about why most women being at disadvantage against men in close combat. Or it's plot armor.

It's not the height and weight alone-Tyrion is not just short, he is-for lack of a better word-deformed. From textual descriptions, it seems his leg bones have not developed normally and this causes difficulty when engaging in day-to-day activities as mundane as climbing stairs.

[SeanF]

At the battle of Blackwater, Tyrion is on horseback, surrounded by other horsemen, and cuts down men on foot, who have been taken by surprise. That's not implausible.

[Nyrhex]

At the battle of Blackwater, Tyrion is on horseback, surrounded by other horsemen, and cuts down men on foot, who have been taken by surprise. That's not implausible.

Yes it is. Because it is the same as the Battle of the Green Fork. He is also mounted, and kills people left and right. Those are not surprised. They are in a spearwall formation against his charge.

In both cases Tyrion fights without great difficulty. Forget that he does not have his armor. I'll buy that he took on some mismatched bits that were too small for most men. I have plenty of experiance with dealing with kit that was not my size. However, you expect me to believe that he freaking went against others, some were mounted, and after he had already explained how he can't ride a regualr horse? He needs a special saddle, and a horse that was specifically trained for him. In both battles (battles! not joy-riding a horse from one town to the next!) he charges on horseback, without any difficulty. WTF?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Tyrion has one of the toughest sets of plot armour in the series. I've always thought it was a bit ridiculous how he survived the Blackwater but I suppose he did have plenty of guards.

The same as Stannis is so prevalent he win's every battle he is in or as forum poster's like to give him the same rights of victory? Or the same as in his victories are so absurd you can call bullshit thousand of times? If you doubt this character then doubt your own favorite. The man defeated 30-20k thousand men with 1k. Call it what you will but some things are fantasy.

And you praise this man as doing such? I am willing to bet Arya(or even Sansa) could have done the same as their leader.

Wait so you say Stannis defeating the wildlings defies belief, but you're also saying that inexperienced children could've done it...

This is either a contradiction or a stupid and baseless insult against Stannis. Why even bring it up?

ETA: Good to see you StanBamf! :cheers:

[2fingers]

Yes it is. Because it is the same as the Battle of the Green Fork. He is also mounted, and kills people left and right. Those are not surprised. They are in a spearwall formation against his charge.

In both cases Tyrion fights without great difficulty. Forget that he does not have his armor. I'll buy that he took on some mismatched bits that were too small for most men. I have plenty of experiance with dealing with kit that was not my size. However, you expect me to believe that he freaking went against others, some were mounted, and after he had already explained how he can't ride a regualr horse? He needs a special saddle, and a horse that was specifically trained for him. In both battles (battles! not riding a horse from onw town to the next!) he charges on horseback, without any difficulty. WTF?

Don't worry man, you have GRRM's opinion to back you up. Tyrion's battlefield and martial prowess is a bunch of BS to the point of it being quite comical and absurd. The main thing is...can you as a reader overlook it without hurting your admiration for the story being told. I could and it didn't bother me at all.

[Nyrhex]

Don't worry man, you have GRRM's opinion to back you up. Tyrion's battlefield and martial prowess is a bunch of BS to the point of it being quite comical and absurd. The main thing is...can you as a reader overlook it without hurting your admiration for the story being told. I could and it didn't bother me at all.

I can live with BS as long as it's not plot significant.

[Ser Lepus]

Little boys aren't fit to raise big dogs, let alone wolves. Hell, small dogs even. My mini-puddle's brother bit out a piece of meat out of palm of his owner, because he was agressive and didn't get proper discipline. It was all "how cute he is when he's angry" while he was a pup. Would you give bullterrier to 5 y.o., or 7 y.o., for that matter, to raise? With big dogs you need a strong will, common sense and preferably experience. Ned obviously read the script, and even so, look at poor Luwin. Mangled by Shaggydog.

We are speaking of medieval people, here. They are rough people. I don't find weird that they allow children to play with giant puppies. And, if the kids fail to properly raise the direwolves and those become too agressive? Then you kill the animals, no big deal, and the kids learn a valuable lesson about taking your responsabilities seriously (like I said, those are rough people). Ned probably thought that he would have to kill the animals once they grew a bit, but before that, no harm would come from the kids playing a with the furry puppies.

[Cruella]

By the time you realize that the animals are dangerous, they can easily maim or kill your kids, their owners. Domesticated wild animals and even dogs sometimes do that, even if they love their owners, and it wouldn't take much to damage Rickon. There was one such case for example where dogs were fighting between themselves in a yard and little girl got in between them and almost died from bloodloss. Dogs didn't mean to hurt her, later they were walking around whining while she lay bleeding, but they still almost killed her.

Medieval people (whom Starks resemble only in certain way) may be rough, but they aren't idiots and they know a lot about training dogs, as they'd have kennels, dogs for hunting and protection and would know about their behavior. You have to be completely brainless to think that a boy like Rickon can raise and teach big dog to behave, let alone direwolf. Nor were Starks mindlessly rough - they forbid Bran climbing and both Bran and Arya got away with a lot of misbehavior without serious or corporal punishment - hardly harsh parents even by beginning of the century standards. It's a cruel and stupid idea, as you can't expect poor dog to learn to behave when it's being trained by freaking baby.

[aceluby]

I don't think it's all that unbelievable. He has his own suit of armor, so it can be safely assumed that he has been trained in warfare. Secondly, he's on horseback and seeks out people not on horseback. Once knocked off his horse at the green ford he is a sitting duck, but the battle moves on and he gets lucky. I haven't gone through my re-read of the blackwater yet, but again, it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility.

One thing I'll say though is that we've been trained to expect that if something can go bad it will, but Tyrion seems to be one of the only characters that is consistently lucky...

Maybe there is a good reason everyone rubs the dwarf's head :P

[David Selig]

Little boys aren't fit to raise big dogs, let alone wolves. Hell, small dogs even. My mini-puddle's brother bit out a piece of meat out of palm of his owner, because he was agressive and didn't get proper discipline. It was all "how cute he is when he's angry" while he was a pup. Would you give bullterrier to 5 y.o., or 7 y.o., for that matter, to raise? With big dogs you need a strong will, common sense and preferably experience. Ned obviously read the script, and even so, look at poor Luwin. Mangled by Shaggydog.

Yep. I can't help but laugh at the absurdity of a 3 year old being given a direwolf to raise and train totally on his own. Even a small dog would've been a major risk. But a wolf who become huge in several months and could kill a grown man with ease...it's just absurd.

As for Tyrion's battle prowess - it doesn't bother me much. A bit unrealistic, but oh well, I've never cared much for the ASOIF battles anyway. Not Martin's strong suit by a long shot.

[Tharvot]

Well, he is a small target. :laugh:

It is pretty absurd, and I do like the show's portrayal better where he is clumsy and rather inept because its much more realistic.

However, the whole UnCat plot line is still the worst in the entire series to me. :stillsick:

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Wow, is this an entire thread devoted to the idea that an axe-wielding dwarf would make a miserable warrior? Take it up with Tolkien: it's his idea. George is just using it for comic relief.

[The Fallen]

Seriously it requires a bigger suspension of disbelief then the dragons or the Others. It started out innocently enough with him defeating one of the mountain clansmen in AGOT, okay whatever he got lucky. Then the Green fork happens and I'm starting to feel like this is a little silly what with his arm shattered by a mace yet hes still fighting. But now I'm rereading ACOK and his sortie against the gates is just borderline absurd. Here's a character about 4 feet tall, who has trouble walking, with no battle experience and hardly any training, yet he's mowing down soldiers like it's fucking dynasty warriors. I just....where did this come? Is Tyrion just such an important character that he needed to live through this battle no matter what? If so he just should have commanded from the rear. I just can't take these passages very seriously.

Damn, son! It's been a while since you've posted in General. Glad to see you're back.

Anyways, I agree with you. When I read the fight against the clans from the Mountains of the Moon I found it plausible. When I read the Green Fork it came off as believable to a certain extent. But when it got to the Blackwater it became a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

I would also agree with those that have said that he more than likely had training with a Master-At-Arms.

I'm also not sure what the limitations of a dwarf are. All I know is that they have short limbs and thus quick, short movements. They seem to be able to run easily enough. It would be interesting to get the point of view of a real little person who might be in these forums or someone who knows about it. (If there's already a post with that info, please let me know. I didn't read through every post.)

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Its called plot armour dear...but I love it!!!

[Djinn]

It's not the height and weight alone-Tyrion is not just short, he is-for lack of a better word-deformed. From textual descriptions, it seems his leg bones have not developed normally and this causes difficulty when engaging in day-to-day activities as mundane as climbing stairs.

And there you go, bringing logic and sense into a perfectly BS argument! Why should shortened arms by a problem to someone fighting on horseback? It not like he would have trouble reaching for his footed opponents while swinging a Axe(not even a spear but a Axe).

What color does GRRM needs to paint Tyrions plot armor for people to notice? Bright orange and pink?

OR

Maybe Tyrion really doesn't have any physical shortcomings, he just like to complain and whine allot.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Kinda like Yoda in Attack, eh?