Wylla Manderly and Lyanna Mormont- just a discussion

[Iroh]

But isn't anyone as surprised as I am at their zealist loyalty to the Starks? Especially when they are FEMALE and could easily be married into a family that may eventually become an enemy? I mean, shouldn't they (as females) be raised with a neutral loyalty so to speak so that they can take on their husbands alliegences?

You are talking about what happened and still continue to happen in many countries of our history and about a general rule for the South of Westeros.

But no House or King helped the Manderly after they were stripped of their lands and a House that lost its land in a medival society is as good as finished: no one will marry the Sons & Daughters of that House, if her daughters are raped or their sons killed no one will give them Justice and that House will not have leverage to protect their lives and trade with others. They became a tragic clan with only a name to remember its former glory and the best part no one will want them near their lands because they are cursed and bring bad luck.

According to Lady Rohanne Webber, a thousand years before the Conquest the Manderlys lived along the banks of the mighty river Mander, but they were driven away by House Gardener. They fled north and were welcomed by the Starks ofWinterfell as their own bannermen. They are the only northern noble house of Andalorigins and customs, and thus they follow the Faith of the Seven instead of the old gods, and have a strong tradition of knighthood. - WIKI

“I know about the promise,” insisted the girl. “Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!” - Wylla Manderly

So for the House Manderly the Starks will always be their Kings, many will sit in the IT but they are only Stark men.

No House or King helped the clans and people that lived in the Bear Island against the ironborns no one cared, the Starks decide to bring the Bear Island for its domain and gave it to the Mormonts...after that their Island continued to be attacked but now they had a big House to protect them and the Justice of the Starks is something that always makes people fear.

“Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK. A girl of ten, you say, and she presumes to scold her lawful king.” His close-cropped beard lay like a shadow over his hollow cheeks. “See that you keep these tidings to yourself, Lord Snow. Karhold is with me, that is all the men need know. I will not have your brothers trading tales of how this child spat on me.”

For the North the only ones that they can count is the Starks in their darkest hour.

House Manderly

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Manderly

House Mormont

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Mormont

[Lord Stunny]

Because both were bethroted to Bran and Rickon

[Starks Among Us]

Because both were bethroted to Bran and Rickon

quote please?

[Pearlthegirl]

Robb was really looking forward to marrying Arya off to a Frey too. How do you think that would've gone? Not all Northern girls are Sansas, starry eyed and dreaming of princes. The North is a tougher life even for nobles. Wylla has been taught her family's salvation well and Lyanna was raised by warrior she-bears. Maybe they have a bit of the wolf's blood in them?

[Starks Among Us]

Robb was really looking forward to marrying Arya off to a Frey too. How do you think that would've gone? Not all Northern girls are Sansas, starry eyed and dreaming of princes. The North is a tougher life even for nobles. Wylla has been taught her family's salvation well and Lyanna was raised by warrior she-bears. Maybe they have a bit of the wolf's blood in them?

Right. Arya is like Wylla and Lyanna too in so much that she speaks her mind and fights back. Imagine if Arya was a couple years older in the story line (child bearing age) , Robb marries her to a Frey, then shit hits the fan with the Freys. Imagine the position Arya would have been in, a child (or pregnancy) by a Frey husband (who maybe she doesn't love, but also doesn't dislike) but now he is ordered to kill her family. I can't imagine what Arya would have done in a situation like that. Which is why I'm questioning such a strong inbred allegiance in the females to the Starks- when chances are they may end up marrying someone who is not affiliated with Stark or could easily become enemy of house Stark. It would put said female into a particularly difficult situation, especially should she not only be married but have a child with "the enemy" (of stark) so to speak.

[roxWolfox]

The girls aren't the only staunch defenders of the Starks. 'The Liddle' states something along the line of 'a maid could walk naked throughout the North without being touched/molested when a Stark ruled in Winterfell'. The girls would be the first to realize that as long as there are no Starks in Winterfell, they are no longer protected. The Starks are idealized by almost all the Northmen/women/children. Perhaps because of the constancy of the family, or perhaps because of the threat/promise of justice should any innocent be harmed (even Roose fears the Stark sense of justice).

Wylla's and Lyanna's vehement defence of the Stark family is especially noticable and in stark (no pun intended) contrast to Lady Dustin...conspiracy or no, she hates the Starks for 'robbing' her of so much (potential marriage to Brandon way back in the day, and then of her husband when he went off with Ned, and Ned didn't honour him enough to bring his bones back).

I do adore those two, but Lyanna took the cake for me. What a sweetie. :bowdown:

eta: spelling

[Lady of Long Lake]

The girls aren't the only staunch defenders of the Starks.

Even the wildling spearwilves that Mance took to WF defended the Starks unusually vehemently. They said something snarky to Theon about him not being good enough to say the Stark sigil words.

[roxWolfox]

Even the wildling spearwilves that Mance took to WF defended the Starks unusually vehemently. They said something snarky to Theon about him not being good enough to say the Stark sigil words.

:agree:

The Starks were known for their sense of justice and protective stance where women and children were concerned, which is something that the women/girls would appreciate and come to expect from a liege lord (yes, even the Free Folk knew the Ned as the Lord of the North whether or not they bowed to him)...far more-so than the men would.

eta: spelling

[FishTarts]

“I know about the promise,” insisted the girl. “Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!” - Wylla Manderly

So for the House Manderly the Starks will always be their Kings, many will sit in the IT but they are only Stark men.

“Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK.["]

For the North the only ones that they can count is the Starks in their darkest hour.

This post almost made me cry. WINTERFELL!

[roxWolfox]

Welcome, FishTarts. And I agree with you on the emotion, for that was a tear-jerker speech. When Manderly was kissing Frey ass and I was truly hating him, this green haired spitfire spoke up and, well, it was a very emotional moment for me.

But I still give Lyanna Mormont kudos...10 yrs old and pissing Stannis (the Mannis) off. That was hilarious. I adore those Northern gals!

eta: spelling...what else?

[Floris]

Actually i think Rickon and Wylla will make a perfect couple, in the moment when she stood there all alone against all and when Manderly requsted Rickon,this pop out in my head

[Harle The Handsome]

Actually i think Rickon and Wylla will make a perfect couple, in the moment when she stood there all alone against all and when Manderly requsted Rickon,this pop out in my head

Of course. if Rickon were to become King in the North, he will need a protector until he comes of age. I wonder who Lord Manderly thinks would make a good protector? I wonder if said protector has any sway over who Rickon should marry? The game of thrones goes on at many levels.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Of course. if Rickon were to become King in the North, he will need a protector until he comes of age. I wonder who Lord Manderly thinks would make a good protector? I wonder if said protector has any sway over who Rickon should marry? The game of thrones goes on at many levels.

Yes. I've always figured that Manderly wants to be the key figure in bringing the Starks back. This way he can make a marriage alliance and cement his northern street cred.

[Agravayne]

He fed the Freys some of their cousins in a "pork" pie, served it out to them himself, called for songs about the Rat Cook and ate some himself -- that is street if anything ever was.

Manderly for President! (but not of the Food Network)

[Siddard Stark]

Well jst want to add the fact, tht all houses in the north mostly marry within the north. Lord Richard Stark's southern ambitions were the main reason tht he tried to marry Brandon Stark to Catelyn and Lyanna to Robert. Normally Starks marry into their own bannermen. Alys Karstarks tells Jon she came to winterfell when she was young and main reason for her father bringing her was getting acquainted to Robb Stark for a possible marriage. The reason northern women are so fiercely loyal to the Starks is they know they will be married within the north and whatever happens their liege lords will be the Starks!!!!

[Agravayne]

I suspect that there is something to that. I imagine that all of the Great Houses married primarily into their bannerman's families when the Seven Kingdoms were Seven political entities. I'm sure that even the Boltons have married into House Stark (and Stark into Bolton) long before not-Arya and Ramsay.

However, post conquest, I would think that this tradition would be breaking down. It may be that the Starks were late on the bandwagon, of course. We do know that Bronze Yohn is related to the Starks by marriage (maybe one of Lord Rickard's sisters or some such).

That being said, what Hoster Tully and Rickard Stark was doing was destabilizing.

Hoster Tully eventually did marry Arryn and Stark to his daughters, he tried to marry one of his daughters to Jaime Lannister. If Rickard had his way, Lyanna would have married Robert -- Lords and Ladies of the Riverlands, North, Stormlands and Vale all goodbrother/sister to each other -- not good if you are the Crown. Now, you are potentially one generation from a Charles V situation -- where Lordship of the Great Houses consolidates into a single person. The Iron Throne needs to keep four out of seven on their team. Post Tully Marriages, Robert or Ned had four great houses.

Indeed, Robb Stark was Eddard's heir, but also 3nd in line behind Edmure and Catelyn for the Riverlands.

[roxWolfox]

I suspect that there is something to that. I imagine that all of the Great Houses married primarily into their bannerman's families when the Seven Kingdoms were Seven political entities. I'm sure that even the Boltons have married into House Stark (and Stark into Bolton) long before not-Arya and Ramsay.

However, post conquest, I would think that this tradition would be breaking down. It may be that the Starks were late on the bandwagon, of course. We do know that Bronze Yohn is related to the Starks by marriage (maybe one of Lord Rickard's sisters or some such).

That being said, what Hoster Tully and Rickard Stark was doing was destabilizing.

Hoster Tully eventually did marry Arryn and Stark to his daughters, he tried to marry one of his daughters to Jaime Lannister. If Rickard had his way, Lyanna would have married Robert -- Lords and Ladies of the Riverlands, North, Stormlands and Vale all goodbrother/sister to each other -- not good if you are the Crown. Now, you are potentially one generation from a Charles V situation -- where Lordship of the Great Houses consolidates into a single person. The Iron Throne needs to keep four out of seven on their team. Post Tully Marriages, Robert or Ned had four great houses.

Indeed, Robb Stark was Eddard's heir, but also 3nd in line behind Edmure and Catelyn for the Riverlands.

My goodness. Just the thought of a Stark having to marry a Bolton made me shudder. :stillsick:

But now, after all these years, the Iron Throne is right back where it started approximately 20 years ago. The north has a new (and intensely disliked) Warden (House Bolton) who will have a very difficult time rustling up an army - Wylla and Lyanna giving evidence that even the children refuse to bend the knee to anyone not a Stark; the Riverlands are more or less under Lannister rule (as Littlefinger has yet to show up in the Riverlands that we know of) with Greyjoys being glorified babysitters - it goes without saying that the Freys would make up the majority of said army, since no one else would trust them enough to march alongside them. The Vale is staying aloof for now, as the last Arryn's health is their most pressing concern - and who really knows Littlefinger's endgame, anyways. The Stormlands are being claimed by (f)Aegon, and Dorne is staying as mysterious as always.

The only great houses at this time that openly/fully support the IT are Lannister and Tyrell.

So, in hindsight, perhaps the kingdom had been aware of House Targaryen being on the verge of implosion for some time, and Aerys' madness was the final straw/camels back that most Great House needed to start taking steps necessary for not only their own survival, but that of Westeros :dunno:

Either way, I don't know if the northern houses would have shipped their daughters off to the Riverlands or Vale. I'm trying to think of a precedence (before Rickard Stark's plans), and can't come up with anything. If I find something in the books, I'll certainly ETA this.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

Of course. if Rickon were to become King in the North, he will need a protector until he comes of age. I wonder who Lord Manderly thinks would make a good protector? I wonder if said protector has any sway over who Rickon should marry? The game of thrones goes on at many levels.

Rickon could marry a northern girl and secure alliances, but he sort of already has the North in his pocket.

Meanwhile, there's Shireen.

[roxWolfox]

Rickon could marry a northern girl and secure alliances, but he sort of already has the North in his pocket.

Meanwhile, there's Shireen.

I agree with you, but the northmen look down on 'cripples, bastards, and broken things'. Shireen's condition makes her more of a 'last resort' option were there no other choice.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

I agree with you, but the northmen look down on 'cripples, bastards, and broken things'. Shireen's condition makes her more of a 'last resort' option were there no other choice.

That's very true. Notice how there is zero talk of Bran? Plus, I don't actually think Stannis or Shireen would allow a Shireen-Rickon wedding.

The north is in ruins and nearly everyone is dead or will be dead after the Battle of Ice.

Meanwhile, a Shireen-Sweetrobin wedding makes way too much sense.

But of course, all of this talk about about Wylla, Lyanna and northern alliences is kind of pointless when the Others invade.