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Why did the Free Cities put up with the Ironborn


Nucky Thompson

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After the failure of Balon's first rebellion, the terms of surrender must have completely banned him from reaving and raiding across the shores of Westeros which were under the king's peace. Excluding a possible attack on the Wildlings (or, perhaps, the Skaagosi), Balon and his reavers would have to take their business elsewhere and concentrate on the Free Cities/Essos. Euron was the most notorious of them, but surely there were many more like him.

My question is - why didn't the Free Cities put up an opposition of sorts? If they wouldn't be able to muster a military response, they could've brought the matter before king Robert. Did they simply not care enough, were they too divided and fighting among themselves, or would they fear his reaction - could he prefer the Ironborn in such a dispute and even aid them against the foreigners? Did part of the coin from the looting go to the Iron Throne as a tribute? Even if they were divided, some of the stronger of them could plead their case alone - like Volantis. It is noted in the text that Victarion reluctantly paid the golden price because he was in a haste. It doesn't seem that he fears the Volantene (or any other) navy or any of their military capabilities to put up a defense, he simply lacks the time. Could this suggest that the Ironborn attacked Essos on a regular basis and without fear of retribution, or is it simply Victarion's stupidity which causes such a mindset? Surely, Slaver's Bay would be familiar with the Westerosi if this was the case, and would react somewhat differently to Daenerys when she visits them, right?

And finally, could this explain the possible involvement of Braavos with the Ironborn (with them being anti-slavery and thus at odds with most of Essos)?

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The Ironborn are frankly, the best mariners there are. As such, it's hard for the Essosi to put up much of a fight, really. Furthermore they ARE a part of the 7k (apart from the time of rebellion, of course). So the free cities can't go to war against the Ironborn without also going to war with the IT. Which would be disastrous for them. This is the benefit of being someone's vassal, you get their protection, in return for giving up your freedom.

As for bringing the matter before Robert diplomatically, I imagine it would go a little like this:

Robert: Oh yes, mr. ambassador, we understand your concerns about these pirates. We will send word immediately to Pyke with orders to seize any such vessels and hang their captains.

Now, even IF Robert did send such an order, chances are Balon would just conveniently miss catching any, or just catch a token amount of scapegoats to keep the king satisfied. In the end, the Free Cities are right back where they started.

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I do not think Ironborn ever attacked Free Cities in strenght.

Some Ironborn captains over the years probably dared to do some piracy on the Narrow sea but only with a single ship, for the glory and riches of the captain and crew.

But surely they were scarce and even when the Free Cities got a bit pissed they surely had bigger problems or mistook them for Lyseni and many of the other pirates on the Narrow sea.

Ironborn mostly raid the western shore of Westeros.

Euron is an even more special case.

He also does things for himself and even if they cared to find out who he is and traced him back to the Iron Islands he is exiled from there.

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Euron was sent into exile that's why he went so far east, because he couldn't have went back to the Iron Isles. I'm really not 100% but I'm sure the Ironborn still kept reaving, most likely small fishing villages and the like. The free cities are too far away for them to be reaving and retreating.

There is always endless wars between Myr, Tyrosh, etc. So even if the Ironborn did raid there ocasionally I don't think it would cause too much of a problem, since they'd probably just go back to the Isles.

They never attacked the Free cities in force, so that never gave them cause for concern, if the Ironborn attacked in their full stregth, they might have been able to take one of the smaller Free Cities, but in doing that you would probably get the likely scenario of what you proposed in the OP. The other Free Cities rising up against them.

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The areas that seem to be raided by the Ironborn are the Stepstones and the coasts of the Disputed Lands. Things are such a clusterf*ck over there with all the fighting, they don't want to try and raise their sails against such a naval power as the Ironborn, lest they want to feel The Iron Fleet and Victarion's axe coming down on them. Opposing causes might even take up sides with the Ironborn.

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Your question is entirely based upon the premise that the Ironborn actually attacked the Essosi, which is never stated. In fact, why would they? To get to the Free Cities, they would have to pass both the Redwyne fleet and possibly the KL fleet, only to have to contend with the numerous fleets of each immensely rich city.

The Greyjoy words are ''We do not sow''. Perhaps that was true once, but not since AL. They do not reave for sustenance

I don't know if you include the Stepstones in Essos (I do) but the Ironborn do seem to reave there quite a bit. Lawless, full of riches, no organized fleets, and it isn't Westeros' problem. Perfect place to raid.

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I do not think Ironborn ever attacked Free Cities in strenght.

Some Ironborn captains over the years probably dared to do some piracy on the Narrow sea but only with a single ship, for the glory and riches of the captain and crew.

But surely they were scarce and even when the Free Cities got a bit pissed they surely had bigger problems or mistook them for Lyseni and many of the other pirates on the Narrow sea.

Ironborn mostly raid the western shore of Westeros.

I agree with this.

While there were undoubtably some Ironborn who raided in Essos and the Free Cities, they were probably fairly rare. At least relatively speaking.

We know that there are pirates of all sorts of origins that raid in the Narrow Sea. So if a handful of those pirates happen to be from the Iron Islands, there is no reason to pay special attention to those ones in particular.

One could just as easily ask why various Free Cities tolerated Lyseni or Tyroshi pirates, instead of Ironborn.

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Fair enough, but what did the Iron Fleet keep itself occupied with, then? Surely, such a massive force didn't stay anchored for centuries at a time between Harren's defeat at the dragons of Aegon and Balon's first rebellion. Surely, some part of the fleet remained on the islands to protect the Lord Reaper of Pyke, but it cannot have been its entirety. They should've had some "training" of sorts, plus the upkeep would be considerable if it wasn't at least partially sustaining itself by reaving every now and then.

As for mentioning the Dothraki, they and the Ironborn could've formed quite the team. As the Dothraki besiege the city by land, its inhabitants are terrified and try to flee by sea, taking all their valuables with them. Then the Ironborn fleet happens to intercept them, collects the loot and divides it with the Dothraki for a battle well fought. Well, diplomacy isn't really the strong suit of either of them, nor would there be any willingness to part with half the spoils of war, but it would work well in theory...

Furthermore, the very capacity for reaving that the Ironborn have shown twice now doesn't come from nowhere, it has to be maintained and practiced. It probably doesn't really go like "Well, 300 years ago those dudes from our islands reaved and pillaged the continent. We could totally do the same!". There are traditions in place, and those traditions have to be followed, or else they would disappear. And with the Ironborn banned from Westerosi mainland for several hundred years now (since the Targaryen dynasty was formed), some other venue for practicing their craft had to be found. The Sunset Sea remains an unknown wildcard, Valyria has demons, Sothoryos is probably not of any import - Essos remains the only viable alternative in the way of continents.

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I don't think all the Ironborn go reaving anymore. I think it's more the lords' sons who have the authority, the time, and the money to keep a ship all the time to reave. It's a status symbol, a cultural event, like knighthood. Greenland knights go adventuring and fight in tourneys, and Ironborn nobles go reaving on the Stepstones. It's not a mass thing, it's not like the whole Iron Fleet is constantly blockading the Free Cities, they probably don't even feel particularly threatened (not by the Ironborn in particular).

By the way, if Asha is to be believed, it's not unusual for pirates and Ironborn to attack other pirates, not just merchant vessels. I think the Ironborn do mostly that, they like the thrill of a good fight (at least Asha did, given the tone she used when she talked about "paying the pirates on the Stepstones a visit").

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Look, in Ironborn society, every captain is King. If the King of the 'Bloody Scythe' wants to go reaving, he'll go reaving. He knows that if he does so in Westeros, he'll be in trouble. So what does he do ? Go somewhere else, probably the Stepstones, since it's the closest and relatively the safest.

His crew consists of all his sworn men-at-arms etc., who are all looking for riches, saltwives etc. They are basically the toughest pirates on the seas. They'll take whatever they can catch and that doesn't protect itself well enough (swan ships are a no go as we see in the books), be it merchantmen or other pirates. Like Blede said, they're not afraid of a fight (though they aren't stupid either, see previously mentioned swan ships), so that's not going to deter them from attacking other pirates, which are likely to have quite a bit of booty anyway.

Now, any government that catches him, can't say that he's acting on behalf of anyone, let alone Balon or Robert, because, well he isn't. He's just an independent contractor doing his thing, and taking the risks that go with it. Thing is, when he gets back home, he can be put in charge of one of the ships of the Iron Fleet, and voila, experienced captain, ready to command. No need for drills or anything like that.

The Old Way isn't dead, it's just not practiced to the same extent. Euron is said to be the only one living by it all the time anymore, but that doesn't mean the rest of the Ironborn don't do it from time to time.

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Fair enough, but what did the Iron Fleet keep itself occupied with, then? Surely, such a massive force didn't stay anchored for centuries at a time between Harren's defeat at the dragons of Aegon and Balon's first rebellion.

Licking their wounds. (There's always lots of dead on the loosers side and the ironborn lost big time. Just look at Balon who lost two fighting age boys and had to wait for Theon and Asha to grow up.) Fishing. Doing the finger dance. Battling each other in training, brawls and in local disputes. Raping their brother's salt wive and getting banished. Individual captains reaving small scale. Fair amount of pirating but never too much that lost ships can truly be attributed to pirating instead of bad weather.

Had they gone reaving large scale in Essos it would have been a big thing and everyone would have known. Robert would probably have been so eager to go to war again that something large would have happened.

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Well, we know the North exports wood, (the only true big forests survive only there), and there are shipyards in the Iron Islands. They probably just buy the wood they need (or, in a more Ironborn-y and cool way, they cut it in secret from the wolfswood, the west coast is sparsely inhabited after all, and it on theit side of Westeros, all the while laughing at the "stupid Starks").

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That reminds me: They had to build new ships as well after loosing their fleet to Stannis. And apparently there's not that much wood growing on the Iron Islands to replace a large fleet from one day to the next.

Well, they could have captured ships carrying lumber, they could've traded (albeit reluctantly), they could've been helped by Braavos (see above), even Robert himself may have invested in lumber for them in order to increase future tax profits - the possibilities are endless.

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Well, we know the North exports wood, (the only true big forests survive only there), and there are shipyards in the Iron Islands. They probably just buy the wood they need (or, in a more Ironborn-y and cool way, they cut it in secret from the wolfswood, the west coast is sparsely inhabited after all, and it on theit side of Westeros, all the while laughing at the "stupid Starks").

Still takes time. The Greyjoy rebellion was 289, a game of thrones starts in 298, only nine years later, and a clash of kings is set during 299. They must've been working pretty hard to restore their old strength in those years.

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Well, they could have captured ships carrying lumber, they could've traded (albeit reluctantly), they could've been helped by Braavos (see above), even Robert himself may have invested in lumber for them in order to increase future tax profits - the possibilities are endless.

Tax profits from a few islands that are barely able to feed themselves without resorting to plundering?

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Aren't the Stepstones also known as the broken arm of Dorne? In which case they would be part of Westeros.

In any case, I don't expect the Free cities apart from Lys care much what occurs on them.

The Arm of Dorne isn't a thing that exists anymore. Which is why it is "broken". Myr and Lys constantly fight over possession of them. Don't you think the Martells would be a bit concerned about that? Or the Iron Throne, with these free cities pretty much invading Westeros?

The Stepstones are, if not a part of Essos, certainly not a part of Westeros.

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